New Shot Starting System

89sandman · Feb 16, 2017

Kudo's to Doo for being the first to apply this technology to sleds. Uses a ultra capacitor to store energy to start your sled just like electric start but no starter motor or battery needed. Weighs just 2 pounds, saves 22 pounds over a typical starting system. Cost $600 right now but I bet in a couple years it will be standard equiptment just like reverse.

https://www.snowest.com/2017/02/2018-ski-doo-shot-system-summit-freeride

Scott · Feb 16, 2017

It's pretty smart.

Can't wait to see where this goes.

Chadx · Feb 16, 2017

Once this proves reliable, it will be a no-brainer. Pull starting a sled 40 times in a day does fatigue a person, no matte who you are. It's just that some are impacted more than others. For me, I have always found electric start was worth the 20 pound weight penalty for not only fatigue, but for safety (starting a sled when hurt or in an awkward position).

So SHOT will be on my future sleds. Just hope they designed it in such a fashion that, if it fails, other systems will not be impacted (fuel injection, charging, etc.) and one can still pull-start the sled and ride.

89sandman · Feb 16, 2017

All good points. I wouldn't order it until it's had a season on the snow to make sure it doesn't cause problems. I'm a estart guy myself so would love to have this.

Norona · Feb 16, 2017

Chadx said:
Once this proves reliable, it will be a no-brainer. Pull starting a sled 40 times in a day does fatigue a person, no matte who you are. It's just that some are impacted more than others. For me, I have always found electric start was worth the 20 pound weight penalty for not only fatigue, but for safety (starting a sled when hurt or in an awkward position).

So SHOT will be on my future sleds. Just hope they designed it in such a fashion that, if it fails, other systems will not be impacted (fuel injection, charging, etc.) and one can still pull-start the sled and ride.

Shot is only the ultra-capacitor so if it did not start with it, just pull start, like u do in the morning. I have had it this season on a 175 works wicked and better than they lead as they don't want to over promise. It's wicked vids to come as I am on the way home from Reno now

cateye5312 · Feb 16, 2017

As an owner of 11 electric start sleds the savings in batteries alone will be worth it! I am making the assumption of course that the capacitor will last for years. Anybody know if this could be a retrofit item or is there other tech in the new 850 that will keep this from being able to be installed on older models? I agree that you can bet that if this proves to work well it will eventually become standard equipment.

White Rad · Feb 16, 2017

cateye5312 said:
As an owner of 11 electric start sleds the savings in batteries alone will be worth it! I am making the assumption of course that the capacitor will last for years. Anybody know if this could be a retrofit item or is there other tech in the new 850 that will keep this from being able to be installed on older models? I agree that you can bet that if this proves to work well it will eventually become standard equipment.

The shot will NOT work on older sleds and is a factory installed option only.

rulonjj · Feb 16, 2017

I have an idea that this may soon be how electric start sleds will operate. Instead of having a starter the sled will have the SHOT system with a much smaller battery to charge the capacitor. Unless I am misunderstanding how it works but it seems like you could save weight on an electric start sled.

mountainhorse · Feb 16, 2017

it just makes sense...Though this is not new technology...at least not outside of the sled world... application with the ultra-caps is interesting... and many powersports mfg have been working with this technology for a while.

BRP is really pushing the industry lately though.

.

SRXSRULE · Feb 16, 2017

They already have direct injection on the ETEC, I dont see why they dont just do what the automotive world does and use the injector, spark, and piston to get the engine turning over. Use the crank sensor to identify which cylinder is on the compression stroke, fire the correct amount of fuel into the cylinder (calculated from crank position sensor), fire that spark plug, and you have the engine turning over. Then repeat immediately on the other cylinder.

No extra parts added, nothing to fail, and no need to pull the rope for the first start.

The automotive world started doing this 9 yrs ago on production cars, long before that in race applications. Eric

MT boondocker · Feb 16, 2017

Just wondering as to why it only holds a charge for 30 minutes? Don't know anything about capacitors just wondering that's all.

Norona · Feb 16, 2017

MT boondocker said:
Just wondering as to why it only holds a charge for 30 minutes? Don't know anything about capacitors just wondering that's all.

It does not just hold it for 30 minutes, after 35 minutes it holds 95% and then it tapers off at 1 hr it is still at 80% , ultra capacitors charge really fast but they dissipate over time , when you start it it charges back up in 20 seconds so really I have never had to pull my sled more than once in a day so far.

Marty UT · Feb 16, 2017

SRXSRULE said:
I dont see why they dont just do what the automotive world does and use the injector, spark, and piston to get the engine turning over.

Wonder if that concept would even work on a 2-stroke vs. a 4-stroke. Not disagreeing with you, just thinking out loud.

Mountain_Man · Feb 16, 2017

MT boondocker said:
Just wondering as to why it only holds a charge for 30 minutes? Don't know anything about capacitors just wondering that's all.

That's just the nature of capacitors versus a battery. They store electricity but bleed off relatively fast once the charging power is removed from them. They are like a bucket with holes in the bottom, you can still fill it with water but as soon as you shut the water off the bucket will start draining.

They are good for providing a short and powerful burst of electricity that they have been charged with.

SRXSRULE · Feb 17, 2017

Marty UT said:
Wonder if that concept would even work on a 2-stroke vs. a 4-stroke. Not disagreeing with you, just thinking out loud.

As long as the engine is direct injected I dont see why it wouldnt work, but it might be more difficult with only 2 cylinders. On a warm engine I think it would work just as effective as the shot system. Eric

Xrider · Feb 17, 2017

Wonder if we'll see it on a dirt bike some day?

Fireline · Feb 17, 2017

You would need a battery to power the ECM, injectors, fuel pump etc to do what you suggest. That would add more weight than what shot does I would guess.

boondocker99 · Feb 17, 2017

SRXSRULE said:
They already have direct injection on the ETEC, I dont see why they dont just do what the automotive world does and use the injector, spark, and piston to get the engine turning over. Use the crank sensor to identify which cylinder is on the compression stroke, fire the correct amount of fuel into the cylinder (calculated from crank position sensor), fire that spark plug, and you have the engine turning over. Then repeat immediately on the other cylinder.

No extra parts added, nothing to fail, and no need to pull the rope for the first start.

The automotive world started doing this 9 yrs ago on production cars, long before that in race applications. Eric

What production car has this?

boondocker99 · Feb 17, 2017

SRXSRULE said:
As long as the engine is direct injected I dont see why it wouldnt work, but it might be more difficult with only 2 cylinders. On a warm engine I think it would work just as effective as the shot system. Eric

All you keyboard/Internet engineers should go get a job engineering this stuff if you thing the professionals have over looked such obvious and easy solutions!

Idcatman3 · Feb 17, 2017

xphighmark said:
What production car has this?

All I can find is that Mazda tried it, but it didn't work quite right all by itself. The system they've got does appear to use this idea to assist the starter.

http://www2.mazda.com/en/publicity/release/2008/200809/080909a.html

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/engine-stop-start-systems-explained-tech-dept

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