Allow me to scare the hell out of you, with a little ROADLESS Example

Wade · Sep 18, 2009

So, we've been looking for examples of Roadless maps. Been dang near impossible to find. Under the 2001 Clinton Roadless Rule, there where three types of Roadless. "Primitive" (closed), "Semi-Primitive Non-Motorized" (closed), and "Semi-Primitive Motorized". I finally found an example in the Clearwater National Forest.

Warning big maps: PDF MAP

Now look at the dark green at the bottom, that's the Selkirk-Bitterroot Wilderness, the northern tip of 1.8 million acres. All the rest of that dark green, all new wilderness under the Clinton plan. Yha, Great Burn/HooDoo will become wilderness.

Now look at all the blue. That's closed to motorized use. Yha, all of it.

What will be open, that pink. That's the only "ROADLESS" that will be open. The light green and orange, are roaded, and will be open to snowmobiles, except the parts closed for animals.

Now think about that. Dark Green and Blue closed. We go from a little wilderness area in the south, to all of that, by passing one Executive Rule. Tell me the Roadless Rule is nothing more than a poorly disguised wilderness bill, that doesn't require Congress to Vote on it.

Here's another map to look at: (warning big) Roadless Map PDF

All those colored areas, are Roadless Areas.

m_beeson · Sep 18, 2009

I don't get it. I just don't get it...

Wade · Sep 18, 2009

Basically, if the Clinton Roadless plan is found legal, by the 10th circuit court. Which Obama is trying to do, it's very likely that most snowmobile forests will see more than half their land closed. It's the same in the Payette National Forest, and even worse in the Sawtooth National Forest. And, pretty bad, in the Boise National Forest. And, those are just the ones I've looked at.

The Clearwater National Forest was just convenient. About 10% of the Clearwater is closed now, if Roadless is allowed to happen, I'd guess 70% of the Clearwater will be closed.

Sorry, I've been studying this so much, I just see one gaint closed sign when I saw it.

m_beeson · Sep 18, 2009

I understand what you're saying Wade, and it scares the hell out of me.

What I don't get is the mentality of the people who get electeded into positions, and decide that we now need more restrictive laws placed on us.

The libs are chipping away. if this angle doesn't work, well they'll be back, and they'll be smarter the next time. each time they backdoor something on us it restricts us a little at a time.

I say follow the mentality, and it will lead you to money.

Wade · Sep 18, 2009

m_beeson said:
I understand what you're saying Wade, and it scares the hell out of me.

What I don't get is the mentality of the people who get electeded into positions, and decide that we now need more restrictive laws placed on us.

The libs are chipping away. if this angle doesn't work, well they'll be back, and they'll be smarter the next time. each time they backdoor something on us it restricts us a little at a time.

I say follow the mentality, and it will lead you to money.

Sorry, misunderstood. Yep, I don't get this either.

Roadless
NREPA
Y2Y, Yellowstone 2 Yukon
Closing RWAs (recommended wilderness area)
WSA (Wilderness Study Area)
Endangered Species Act
Forest Planning
Travel Planning
NEPA (National Environmental Policy Act)
EIS (Environmental Impact Study)
Wilderness
National Monuments
National Primitive Areas
National Scenic Research Areas
National Scenic Areas
National Wild, Scenic and Recreation Rivers
NRA (National Recreation Area)
National Game Refuges and Wildlife Preserves
National Volcanic Monument Areas
National Historic Areas
National Protection Areas
Special Management Areas
National Botanical Areas
Recreation Management Areas
Scenic Recreation Areas
etc................

2XM3 · Sep 20, 2009

It SUCKS !!!

My friends and I have had enough..we will now ride where we want , when we want to. it is my form of protest to these stupid closures.......if everyone did this in the new rediculous area closures good luck enforcing it....

Wade · Sep 20, 2009

Well, it's gotta go through the court system yet. And, it won't be an overnight thing. It will probably take 10 to 20 years for them to work all this roadless into the various travel plans. Heck the court battles might go on for another 20 years.

But, it's where we are headed, if nothing is done about it.

Swami · Sep 20, 2009

Reality check

"if everyone did this in the new rediculous area closures good luck enforcing it...."

Actually, if everyone rides wherever they want in closed areas, enforcement would be VERY EASY

Wade · Sep 20, 2009

Swami said:
"if everyone did this in the new rediculous area closures good luck enforcing it...."

Actually, if everyone rides wherever they want in closed areas, enforcement would be VERY EASY

I don't know, I've heard this argument before. But, I've seen the opposite, actually work.

Say they close everything, because of a few radicals? Won't this actually force the issue of land use, into the public? Won't it force people to either quit, or get involved? Won't it possibly force people to question why any land is closed at all?

The incremental closing of public lands is killing our sport, slowly but surely. A good revolt, might be in order shortly.

Don't know. Could go either way, but I don't believe that people riding in closed areas, will actually change anything. Their going to close it anyways.

2XM3 · Sep 20, 2009

Swami said:
"if everyone did this in the new rediculous area closures good luck enforcing it...."

Actually, if everyone rides wherever they want in closed areas, enforcement would be VERY EASY

yeah just like the 25,000+ man patroled, 24/7 with every devise known to man stops all the illegals from wandering around the desert southwest on foot. So just think how are 4 fs guys on trail sleds(or in a truck) who have 100,000 acres to watch going to enforce/catch 10 guys riding mountain sleds 30 miles from nowhere? And helicopter is a joke..1000.00 a hour flite time to write a 75.00 ticket...well it is the goverment we are talking about....

But a good point is raised as it will reach the point that most all people are totally pissed off and wake up to whats happening.
I have a home in AZ also and no one even gives the signs a second look, sure the FS will write a few tickets a week but people still want to go where they have gone for the past 100 years..
Just like the morons who will not let us log burnt timber....totally insane..just pissing away good lumber and jobs.

Sorry for the rant but last I checked I still live in America the forrests are for the people NOT as some kind of washington run and managed preserve. Just royally pisses me off the direction this country is going.

Wade · Sep 20, 2009

I used to believe that if we didn't ride in their, they wouldn't close anymore.

Then I read about NREPA.
Then I read about Roadless.
Then I read about Y2Y.
Then I read about WildSkies.

All 20 to 60 million acres proposals. Then I started to realize, the greenies are never going to stop. It makes no difference what we say, or do.

2XM3 · Sep 21, 2009

wade said:
i used to believe that if we didn't ride in their, they wouldn't close anymore.

Then i read about nrepa.
Then i read about roadless.
Then i read about y2y.
Then i read about wildskies.

All 20 to 60 million acres proposals. Then i started to realize, the greenies are never going to stop. It makes no difference what we say, or do.

bingo !!!

Bagger · Sep 23, 2009

Hey Wade....

....been awhile, sure been a crappy busy summer.

Anyway, thanks for the post and the info. We have to keep drawing attention to the steady theft of public ground. Last time I looked I was still part of the public.
I get just as pizzed as anyone when we are "Posted" out of area's, but I hate to see folks bragging about riding in violation of the law. The "Vanishing Point" ideal.

I still believe that you have to argue from the high ground. (the legal high ground, not the litteral high ground.

Anyway, lets all do our snow dance and get the season kicked off with an early ride !

Bag:beer;

Wade · Sep 23, 2009

Bagger said:
....been awhile, sure been a crappy busy summer.

Anyway, thanks for the post and the info. We have to keep drawing attention to the steady theft of public ground. Last time I looked I was still part of the public.
I get just as pizzed as anyone when we are "Posted" out of area's, but I hate to see folks bragging about riding in violation of the law. The "Vanishing Point" ideal.

I still believe that you have to argue from the high ground. (the legal high ground, not the litteral high ground.

Anyway, lets all do our snow dance and get the season kicked off with an early ride !

Bag:beer;

Hey Bagger, long time.

I hear you. I personally won't ride in wilderness for any reason. I don't want to hurt the sport. We still have enough land to ride on in Idaho. But, the day may come.

I'll just keep updating this list:

Then I read about NREPA.
Then I read about Roadless.
Then I read about Y2Y.
Then I read about WildSkies.
Then I read about 9.4 Million Acres in Utah made wilderness.
Then I read about RWA closures.

CatWoman · Oct 12, 2009

Riding in closure areas does NOT help anyone......at least here in Montana. I've heard it right from the Forest Service mouths.....people just keep pushing it around here, and so now they are looking at closing more of the surrounding area to make enforcement easier and to create a buffer to that other area.

The snowmobile community needs to wake up and get active. I hear lots of people complain away about things, and when I tell them they should make a call or write to the Forest Service, they shrug it off. That is exactly why our voices aren't being heard. People have time to complain to their friends and co-workers, but won't use a portion of that time to fire off a quick email or pick up the phone. :face-icon-small-con

Scott · Oct 12, 2009

There just aren't enough people who get of their arse to create a strong enough resistance. Those who get up and do something just aren't strong enough alone.

89sandman · Oct 15, 2009

that sucks...

Funoutfitters.com · Oct 15, 2009

Who wants to get together and hold hands across america? Or maybe line up our snowmobiles across America? it may work.

av8er · Oct 15, 2009

screw em i will ride where i wANT SEE IF THEY CAN CATCH ME

Catch me if u can

motojunkie101 · Oct 15, 2009

av8er said:
Catch me if u can

Not the sharpest bowling ball in the bunch are you? When we get more areas closed off because people can't stay out of the already closed areas we'll have guys like you to thank.

Next time try to post something useful.

Allow me to scare the hell out of you, with a little ROADLESS Example

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Scott Stiegler

Well-known member

Well-known member

MODERATOR: Premium Member

Similar threads