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880R

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lancelarue

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Getting closer !
Received some different needles to try in the Lectrons. Testing when it quits raining!!!

Downloaded a few pics.
 

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lancelarue

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880

I did what Big John is doing & working fine so far. I'll let him tell you as it's his idea / process on the cylinder o'rings that I copied. This is my first 880 build.
On the 860 never changed anything on series 3 or the R motor. No problems but then I don't have a problem with detonation with my head designs either.
 

lancelarue

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clutching

Well we're still figuring things out and new engine build etc.
I started out with the same clutching I've been running for several years so as to have a baseline to compare to but in the meantime I went to a different track and belt drive and geared up to 2.3 . That seems to have tipped the apple cart over! Used to be at 2.47.

My best set up has been 72 grms.+- running Thunder arms. That equates to somewhere between 19.7 and 21 grms in the pins alone, stock rollers, 433 ramps laid down .060" with a 100X260 spring up to 6,000 feet which is about it for up here in Valdez. This is at 8,250 rpm+-.
I run very little twist in the Paragon with the AC snow pro spring, maybe 1/8" to 1/4" max. Being at 55* finish that's all I've needed. Lately been running 60*X55* helix. Been running 58*X55* for several years but didn't have another helix like that for this sled so went with what I had. Can't notice any difference as far as the helix goes. Ran straight 58* in Summits for years but as I made more power couldn't hang on to the belt and so ended up at 55*. Any less than 58* start and big bores are too "buzzy".
We'll see>>>>>
 
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P

pfi572

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Nov 29, 2009
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880 I had I ran 100/230
11 grams and a 415-441 blended ramp. 415 only for the first portion .
63/55 helix with cat yellow when I was using the older Paragon.
The newer ones with reverse cut into towers only need compression springs.
2:52 ration with belt drive and 174 track
 

lancelarue

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clutching

Interesting. That would be a really nice set up when it matched conditions.
Can't run that low of gearing as I would be wayyy up in overdrive. I'm at 2.3 and it's border line too low. Shame because I love low gearing, but I don't like to get in overdrive in the steep pulls.
I've been going to try less helix angle with a wimpy spring to try and drop some weight in the drive. Haven't got to it yet.
You can still run torsion spring with reverse cut towers. That's what I run in my trail sled. I don't like the compression spring set up. Ran it, no comparison.
TRA stalls the shift when you get to a point in top end with 441 and similar ramps. Arm loses leverage when it climbs too high. Ran 2 mm oversize rollers for years that worked but couldn't keep bushings in them. 417 ramp finished same place as 415 with 2 mm over rollers. Ground the bottom end too try & load big bores. Gave up!!!
433 ramp dropped .060" is approx same as 417 finish only with nice low engagement and HUGE bottom-mid up shift. Great big bore ramp and actually have run 433 in several little race sleds 440's and 600 mods. Just alter them to fit power curve & hold on! These were all with Paragons.
 

lancelarue

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Reeds / Lectrons

Getting quite the education here.
For what it's worth, anyone wanting to try big Lectrons on Skidoo, the Boyeson 600 SDI reeds for rev chassis are a really good match.
They flow the same as 46 Lectrons and after experimenting with different petals am back to the ones that came with!!!! Was running stiffer petals in the Boyesons' but it flat didn't like it. I was all over the place with the fueling trying to make it happy, no go. Put the stock petals back in = oh yea!!!!!!!!!!!
We're making headway, had to modify airbox again, but it was worth it because it flat out is moving some air now! Had to change pipe restrictors / adjust to get pipe pressure back down.

(have some needles for sale in the swap meet)

Supposed to be nice tomorrow, we'll see!:eyebrows:
 

lancelarue

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Belt drive

Things really coming together now. Pipes are dialed in & fueling getting close enough to finish breaking in. Motor is starting to really wake up. I went ahead and pulled a degree of timing back out of it and is probably where I'll run it now. I don't think I was getting enough heat in these big twins. Made one last test pull here at home and then was heading up the mountain, I thought!
Then it started going through the belts in the belt drive. Went through the whole chassis measuring / checking. Everything is dead nuts straight. As much as I hate to do it, putting the chain case back on. I'm not going to do the extra 2 or 3 belts in the back pack thing. I know I can get by running a chain, so I'm going back to what I know works. I suspect I'm getting too much flex / things moving around to run the C3 on a Rev? Dang>>>>>>
 

lancelarue

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belt drive

Things really coming together now. Pipes are dialed in & fueling getting close enough to finish breaking in. Motor is starting to really wake up. I went ahead and pulled a degree of timing back out of it and is probably where I'll run it now. I don't think I was getting enough heat in these big twins. Made one last test pull here at home and then was heading up the mountain, I thought!
Then it started going through the belts in the belt drive. Went through the whole chassis measuring / checking. Everything is dead nuts straight. As much as I hate to do it, putting the chain case back on. I'm not going to do the extra 2 or 3 belts in the back pack thing. I know I can get by running a chain, so I'm going back to what I know works. I suspect I'm getting too much flex / things moving around to run the C3 on a Rev? Dang>>>>>>

Talked with Kevin @ C3. Good guy as always. Getting me fixed up to try again.
 

Reeb

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I'm following this thread. Good info. Always wanted to get my hands on a Paragon but haven't seen one for sale when I have a fist full of cash. I'm running the TKI Extended belt drive w/ a Holz skid. Pretty close to stock power tho and only spinning a 153x2.5 CE.
I've toyed with running a P-85 and a Cat secondary but I have a pretty solid setup with the TRA and HPV so I haven't pursued the upgrade as hard as I might if I was fighting clutching constantly.
 

lancelarue

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Paragon

Yes it's getting harder to find them used. Used to see them around for sale when folks couldn't get them to work but it seems to have dried up!
Paragon will stand up to power/load better than anything I've tried and will last a long time. There's a weight penalty for this but I'm good with that given the performance difference.
I have also had really good luck with the Team tied, but they won't last like a Paragon. I will say I've tuned them to be the closest to a Paragon than anything else so far.
 

lancelarue

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the mod 880R

Well it's been quite the rocky road.
Basic motor runs really good. Need to send MPEM back to race dept. after season is over to pull some timing in the mid range. Running an 05" MPEM & harness in this 06' with the R motor. I guess that's quite a mouth full in itself! Over the years of building mod motors and trying to make then work with the modern electronics / smog noise control set ups I gave up a few years ago and went back to what works. Every time / everywhere.
A good mod motor doesn't have the character to be de-tuned / epa compliant. They don't like it, and it's a constant battle what with the enemic heads and exhaust valve setups.
After having run the Jaws twins with many hours of tweeking tuning etc. I'm going back to a big single to finish the season. When I go back on the dyno I'll do some cutting, welding and tuning to see if I can make them work like I hoped. As it stands now they sign off about 7,800 and will creep up to 7,900. These were built to be 8,250 rpm pipes.
This is with pipe pressures completely dialed in / fueling timing etc. If I could get these pipes to work on top comparatively this would be a monster.
It is really impressive in the bottom / mid but that's it.
When I had this motor on the dyno it was nuts on the bottom & mid but I have to make some changes to the dyno / add more inertia for it to be able to keep up as the motor lights so hard and so fast it gets away. I was seeing 100#'s of torque before 6,000 rpm.
Riding it is really fun. Totally linear power band. I'm engaging at about 2,700 and there is no hesitation pause, nothing!!! Just hang on!!!!!!! It usually just spins but if it hooks up>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That cool sound you get in a hard pull when the track starts really winging it, I get at 6,500. It's nuts. It does pull good up to like I said 7,800, but sadly scary part is over.
Putting a modified SLP pipe on next week which I've been running variations of for years on 860's and we'll see.
Lectron carbs do not compensate for altitude like they told me. I don't know if it's because these pipes are so far off or what. Higher you go things start going fat but in all honesty I haven't taken my pipe pressure lately to see how bad the pressure is falling off @ altitude. If the pipes actually worked I'd be all over that but since they're not even close won't waste time. Also for anyone looking at any kind of project like this in Alaska, don't ever go under .008" piston to cylinder clearance on an 880. I don't care what kind of a "dog & pony show" they swear by!!! If you're making serious power up here, that's what I would run. If you're not running any power you can get away with less. How much I wouldn't know.
Oh, and don't buy into the belt drive scenario for the Rev with this kind of torque. It just "twists the idler bracket" and destroys your $ 100 belt. Maybe if you wanted to try and run a shorter belt, which I see now can be had, you could take some of the loop out of around the top gear and might work. Not going there. Went back to chain & sprockets. What a bunch of bull****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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B
Sep 24, 2009
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I'm not familiar with the C3 belt drive. Is the idler on the backside of the belt or something? I'm about to order a TKI belt drive for a 950 rev. Bad idea?
 

lancelarue

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Don't know about the TKI set up. I'm just curious if the C3 needs a shorter belt as it makes a big curl around the top gear and then around the idler. I thought that was a good idea (more contact on smaller gear) but now I'm wondering.
 
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