TS TSS and Yeti TSS Discussion ?

summitboy · Oct 29, 2015

With the advent of the TS TSS kits (Yeti TSS shortly following) hitting the snow i would like to promote some thoughts/discussions on this design/idea.

Can some one tell me why ? More travel ? Better deep snow ? Or is it for rough trail only ? I thought the travelling rear skid wasn't very desirable in the deep snow ei UFO kit ? I understand the rear axle will travel huge with a 3/4"-1" at the shock (5"-9" roughly depending on kit length).

Can someone tell me how TS addresses the chain tension when the rear articulates ? Also can you tell me how the pivot at the motor works ? Bearings ? If not there must be some wear going on in that part of the kit ?

Thoughts

Mtn. Muncher · Oct 30, 2015

The TSS is a very specifically designed shock for this application to give the snow bike dual rear suspension. It is not a soft squishy suspension as on a dirt bike rear suspension and the UFO kit.

The TSS works in harmony with the rear skid and will increase the traction simply by making the bike more compliant to the ground by retaining the stock center pivot that a dirt bike has; this keeping the track more consistent to the snow and will increase the traction from this. The design was to mimic our proven SX kit duel rear suspension but in a much simpler way. The TSS is unique in the sense that it fits our new kits but can also be upgraded to all the older ST and LT kits as well ranging from 2011 to 2015.

The travel is measured at the rear fender and will travel a total of 8" in this location. This = only 1.5" of stroke in the TSS shock. The bushing are a high density plastic with heat treated steel reducers inside it that are O-ring sealed. The chain will become slightly looser as the suspension travels up. With this, it is important to tension the chain taut. These are all similar things as on the SX kits that we have been running for years.

I believe the Yeti will have a hard time achieving this amount of travel and center pivot amount due to the carbon structure sticking up to high and will come in contact with the exhaust silencer. However if they can achieve something then it will be better then nothing.

Allen from Timbersled

summitboy · Oct 30, 2015

So from a pure mountain kit point of view which is better ? Does one work better than the other in deep powder ?

With the pivot system i assume the swing arm bolt is 100% tight, same as the bike swingarm on dirt.

How will this affect the kits climbing ability compared to a fixed strut ?

I always noticed in a steeper climb my TS137 kind of kept reaching for the moon and couldnt quite keep the front end down and would start trenching not allowing the bike to climb as high as i thought it could go. Will the TSS exasperate this angle of attack in a climb ?

Thanks

teal_210 · Oct 30, 2015

I can't comment on the TSS just yet - but having owned a few SX kits I don't see any downside to the extra travel.

It's without a doubt way better in the bumps not only on the trail but it keeps you more planted and moving forward when you hit bumps on sidehills or climbs.

The swing arm bolt is 100% tight, same as it is with the stock swingarm. The kits rotate on the high density plastic as Allen mentioned.

I can't comment on steep climbing, that's not what I do on the snowbike. You should be able to tailor your suspension settings to keep the ski down if that's what you're after.

Rush44 · Oct 30, 2015

The biggest gain for an LT TSS user like myself is probably going to be in the spring where the LT is a drawback compared to all the other kits (especially without any fresh snow). The LT did beat the hell out of my back last season almost to the point of going home early. That long track and concrete snow just made you feel everything on the ground and sometimes the LT hooked up too much traction. I'm looking forward to see how much more comfortable the ride is come spring time. Of course, I don't want to give up much (if anything) climbing. I'm also assuming that with the new suspension and track it's going to be all positives in the deep.

The UFO guys will tell you that rear moto shock concept worked "depending on the situation". Well, the situation was if you had a KTM bike or not with the much stiffer valved WP rear shock. The stiffer you went apparently the better it got. The TSS is way stiffer than what UFO boys ran and obviously custom built for this purpose rather than using the moto shock. I will say that when I rode the UFO I was super impressed with how it handled down the road... very nice. Once you got up high that soft rear shock just gave up too much traction and the TS guys would rail right past you.

Mtn. Muncher · Oct 30, 2015

TSS, Timbersled Suspension Strut

Summitboy, I know you're pro Yeti now from what you have expressed in other posts, but thank you for the questions and opportunity for me to help educate the Snowest reader on our new TSS Product. I am sure the competitors are working on a way to have this type of product in their own way and TSS is definitely the future of snow bikes.

Some people may not know what TSS stands for. Here is the definition:

TSS = Timbersled Suspension Strut

The TSS is hands down better in every way then a Fixed Strut System. The only down side is the cost and is why we now sell both Fixed Strut and TSS Fitment Kit Systems for a good and better solution depending on budget. Customers will experience these things, and more with this product.

Smoother Ride, from the simple fact that you have up to 20" of suspension travel. Dual rear suspension can absorb bumps as a extreme long travel single rear suspension can, but will retain the traction value that a relatively low travel snowmobile suspension has- all while maintaining a low seat height and flat chassis angle (from our testing other long travel SINGLE rear suspensions trench like crazy).
Overall Improved Handling, by retaining the center pivot of the stock dirt bike TSS allows a 10 foot long snow bike to comply and flex in the center of the chassis to more easily go over obstacles and through terrain, making the snow bike feel more true to a nimble dirt bike feel.
Added Traction, TSS improved weight transfer when going up hill as well as down hill by transferring more weight onto the track and less weight into the ski. When climbing a hill with a Fixed Strut system you some times feel the track break under the snow and loose traction for a split second. One of the first things you will feel with the TSS is a more consistent pull while climbing a hill due to the track being more sensitive on the surface of the snow at climbing speed and angles.
Expected Hill Climb Characteristics, with TSS you will have the same amount of ski lift when sitting on the seat as you would with a Fixed Strut. If you stand up and pull back on the handle bars you are able to lift the front end up higher and wheelie the ski out of the snow more easily on demand. This is a very controlled feeling and makes the bike feel lighter. TSS is very body/rider position specific- giving the rider total control over the "sweet spot" of the bike.

As to your question about the swing arm pivot bushing, the system Timbersled uses has a bushing pressed into the snow bike kit frame. Then the fitment kit reducers slip in from each side similar to the Fix Strut fitment kit system. The difference is the reducers for the TSS are hardened steel and touch in the middle so when the swing arm bolt is torqued the reducer will pivot inside the bushing not on the swing arm bolt. This system is also O-ring sealed to keep the grease in.

Allen from Timbersled

summitboy · Oct 30, 2015

Interesting. I guess Yeti should call it the YSS lol. Can u tell me about the shocks you use in 2016 ? I see on the SX kits it said Fox Zero Pro yet the pics show Evo ? Whats the deal with that ?

I understand your ideas on the TSS. To me it seems even with a stiffer strut than what UFO used it may still articulate and be disadvantageous to the kits deep snow capability. Did you get a chance to test it in super deep snow ? I guess we will find out once the kits show up. Thanks

Wheel House Motorsports · Oct 30, 2015

summitboy said:
I understand your ideas on the TSS. To me it seems even with a stiffer strut than what UFO used it may still articulate and be disadvantageous to the kits deep snow capability. Did you get a chance to test it in super deep snow ? I guess we will find out once the kits show up. Thanks

I may not be able to do as good of a job explaining the difference as Allen can, but ill take a stab, having built UFO stype copies as well as ridden all style Timbersled setups.

Because a UFO had only a single arm to the middle of the skid it transfers all of its weight into the skid a bit too far back causing it to trench a bit in deep snow. The skid couldn't actually react to deeper snow, just teeter the rails back and forth.

With the TSS, the TS maintains the very function dual arm suspension with the added pivot to the kit in the center. This means the kit can still transfer weight internally and the TSS represents makes the kit act like less of a giant board. With hits into the skid from the bottom (bumps humps etc) you get the skids movement and control then on the TSS you get the center pivot which helps allow the whole system to soak up larger hits or rolls in terrain where a rigid 11' long unit becomes negative (crossing ravines etc.)

Maybe this all doesnt make sense. I tried. Lol.

Mtn. Muncher · Oct 30, 2015

summitboy said:
Interesting. I guess Yeti should call it the YSS lol. Can u tell me about the shocks you use in 2016 ? I see on the SX kits it said Fox Zero Pro yet the pics show Evo ? Whats the deal with that ?

I understand your ideas on the TSS. To me it seems even with a stiffer strut than what UFO used it may still articulate and be disadvantageous to the kits deep snow capability. Did you get a chance to test it in super deep snow ? I guess we will find out once the kits show up. Thanks

LOL. Yes, YSS that would be original.

Shocks on the 2016 ST and LT are Fox zero pro. You seen some mixed up pictures on the web site of a SX kit with float 3. shocks

Shocks on the 2016 SX are Fox Float 3. They are not Evol shocks.

The TSS is a float based design built by Fox.

We have tested the TSS in all conditions for many miles on many bikes. I can tell you all day long how sweet our stuff is but you will just have to wait and see the results once customers hit the snow with them and the testimonies start to roll in. Then you will know for sure.

Allen from Timbersled

J&L Snowhawk · Oct 30, 2015

Are the TSS shocks all the same length? Just use different fittings on each application? Can I get one for Suzuki this year then switch bikes a year later and still use same TSS. ??

Mtn. Muncher · Oct 30, 2015

J&L Snowhawk said:
Are the TSS shocks all the same length? Just use different fittings on each application? Can I get one for Suzuki this year then switch bikes a year later and still use same TSS. ??

Yes, they are all the same for all bikes with the exception of the thread in aluminum insert on the lower end. To adapt a TSS shock to a different bike you would need this insert as will as the 2 upper reducer/spacers that make it fit the upper shock bracket of the bike.

Allen from Timbersled

n16ht5 · Oct 30, 2015

I wonder of CMX is trying to come up with a CSS

. IMO the TSS makes the TS trump everyone else

yooper01 · Oct 30, 2015

I'm really not concerned about the chain tension. Mostly because I have thrown gobs of timbersled parts at my Polaris and Yamaha sleds of days past, and found them all to be improvements over OEM suspensions. I trust the name, because they have earned it.

Cant wait for my 16 Lt with TSS to arrive! Don't care that it isn't in yet, more time for me to spend with my family before they wonder where ive run off to when the snow flies!

Sent from my C811 4G using Tapatalk

M5- · Oct 30, 2015

How well does the TSS work on the older pre 15 kits . Is part of the improvement actually due to the new rear skid or can we expect the same level of performance if we retro fit our older kits.

M5

snowbikekits.com · Oct 31, 2015

M5- said:
How well does the TSS work on the older pre 15 kits . Is part of the improvement actually due to the new rear skid or can we expect the same level of performance if we retro fit our older kits.

M5

I'm not Allen, but I will offer my experience as someone who has ridden both SX and ST kits. I think the TSS and the pivoting action of the rear suspension will offer a noticeable improvement on all TS kits - including the 2015 and older kits - in both ride and handling.

swedenturbo · Oct 31, 2015

n16ht5 said:
I wonder of CMX is trying to come up with a CSS .

I think CMX will have trouble using some kind of pivot simply because the chaincase is located on the right side.
There is not much room for travel between exhaust and chaincase.

dhdey · Nov 1, 2015

a thought i had coming from a mtn bike back ground was why not put a lock out option on the TSS so you could have a lever on the bars. i think in deep powder you are not going to want your attack angle constantly changing causing the submarine effect

Ausm7499 · Nov 2, 2015

dhdey said:
a thought i had coming from a mtn bike back ground was why not put a lock out option on the TSS so you could have a lever on the bars. i think in deep powder you are not going to want your attack angle constantly changing causing the submarine effect

Have owned a TS SX kit the last two seasons and can't think of one time where I wanted to lock out the third shock. If the TSS is as good or better then the third shock on the SX kit then all I can say is it will flat out work amazing. I think a shock lockout would get used as often as the lockout on the front pivot arm, I have never seen or rode with anybody that locked out the front pivot arm.

mxracer299 · Nov 2, 2015

I rode a sxlt last season, climbing isn't the same a a skid with a fixed strut, there is a whole lot more ski lift, if climbing is your priority the tss probably isn't going to be that great, but for that matter a snowbike isn't your best tool for the job either if you're worried about climbing. For every other terrain you ride the third shock is amazing... I wouldn't ever ride a kit without a third shock EVER again.

dhdey · Nov 2, 2015

mxracer299 said:
I rode a sxlt last season, climbing isn't the same a a skid with a fixed strut, there is a whole lot more ski lift,

thats why i think the lockout would be a good option, so when you need that consistant attack angle you got go tit

TS TSS and Yeti TSS Discussion ?

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