2003 Vertical Edge 800 Vibration

M8 Rider · Feb 28, 2010

I am helping a friend with a 6500rpm vibration. The Vertical Edge has 2500 miles on it with a new topend. The cylinders were re-plated and the pistons are new Polaris OEM as are the pins and bearings too. After the engine was siezed we had the lowerend checked by the Polaris dealer he said it was fine only the seals were replaced. So we installed the new topend. Now there is a vibration and whirring noise at 6500rpm.Any suggestions? Any help will be greatly appreciated.:face-icon-small-hap

Thank You
Mike

sled_guy · Feb 28, 2010

Do you have another clutch available? Try putting another clutch on and see if it's a clutch balance issue.

Do you know why it seized? Only other thing I can think of is maybe the waterpump is having issues, but I wouldn't think there is enough mass there to cause a noticeable vibration.

sled_guy

M8 Rider · Feb 28, 2010

2003 Edge Vibration

Dear Sled-Guy,
Thank you for the input. Yes we do know why the engine siezed. It was a cold sieze. The sled was not warmed up properly. I might be able to borrow a clutch and try it out. As for the water pump I am not sure the dealership returned the motor in a short block form.:face-icon-small-hap

Thank You
Mike

E-Zmoke 4:20 · Feb 28, 2010

M8 Rider said:
I am helping a friend with a 6500rpm vibration. The Vertical Edge has 2500 miles on it with a new topend. The cylinders were re-plated and the pistons are new Polaris OEM as are the pins and bearings too. After the engine was siezed we had the lowerend checked by the Polaris dealer he said it was fine only the seals were replaced. So we installed the new topend. Now there is a vibration and whirring noise at 6500rpm.Any suggestions? Any help will be greatly appreciated.:face-icon-small-hap

Thank You
Mike

I'm afraid to tell you this but perhaps the polaris dealership didn't know what they were talking about? Did they actually rip it down and have a look? I know when mine went last time we checked the runout and it was under the required spec but I didn't feel right about just putting in a new top end. I tore it down just to be sure, sure as sh*t the MAG side bearing was NFG. All your evidence is leaning towards a crank failure. IMO I would tear it down before you destroy the top end again. You probibly have a bearing that has failed. Has the Crank ever been replaced? With 2500 miles on it It should have been replaced even if they said it was good. Good luck

M8 Rider · Feb 28, 2010

2003 Vertical Edge Vibration

Dear EZ-Moke,
I believe this is the stock crank. Not sure if they checked it for runout or not. I was told that it was cleaned and had seals replaced. Maybe it would be a good idea to tear it back down. My friend says it did not have a vibration before it cold siezed. So most likely the clutch is ok. But I am open minded to check all posibilities. Thank you for the input!:face-icon-small-hap

Thank You
Mike

sled_guy · Feb 28, 2010

Pop the clutch off, clean the crank end and the taper in the clutch with scotchbrite, reinstall, and see if the vibration goes away.

The whirring noise is the worrisome part.

sled_guy

E-Zmoke 4:20 · Mar 1, 2010

More often than enough the sled siezure was dignosed improperly. Cold siezures do happen but are very rare. I'd almost put money down that the bearings on the crank need to be replaced, and were the cause of the siezure. It's a simple fix if you catch them early. If you ride the sled and try to diagnose any further you could possibly cause damage to your case, snap your crank, or worse do both and take out your top end again. I strongly recomend tearing it down and having a proper look.

ullose272 · Mar 1, 2010

just wondering, how would a crank bearing going bad cause a piston seizure?

M8 Rider · Mar 1, 2010

2003 Vertical Edge Vibration

Dear E-ZMOKE,
Thank you for the advice. This is what I am going to do. I am going to take your advice and tear it down and have a look. How do bearings cause seizures? I would like to know why and what to look for. Thank you for the help! I will let you know what I find.:face-icon-small-hap

Thank You
Mike

E-Zmoke 4:20 · Mar 2, 2010

M8 Rider said:
Dear E-ZMOKE,
Thank you for the advice. This is what I am going to do. I am going to take your advice and tear it down and have a look. How do bearings cause seizures? I would like to know why and what to look for. Thank you for the help! I will let you know what I find.:face-icon-small-hap

Thank You
Mike

It's actually quite easy and pretty common for a bearing to cause a siezure. The spacers on the bearings can pile up under heat, and slowly shred apart. leaving metal debry in your engine. This bangs around for a while melts to your pistons and Wamo. After it cools back down and relax's then it becomes free again thus allowing you to unsieze your engine. New top end goes in no more debry. Loud whining noise = bearings are shot. Firstly you should post some pics of his top end so we can further diagnose. And also make damn sure your whining noise is coming from your engine and not your CLUTCH~!! Very possible to get some oil or grease on your belt while changing out the top end but with this many miles on I would have at least changed the bearings out on the crank as its an extra $200 now or a $2000 job when they let go and destroy the rest of your engine.

Did you scrape the case with a small magnet before you re-installed? Last time my crank went down I almost "just replaced the top end" we checked everything. Like i said the tolerance was under, the crank felt smooth. everything should have been good untel i noticed the metal shards in the case. I grabbed a magnet and sure as **** they were magnetic. You can refer to http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=202395 for pics and other info. Again Good luck to you and I hope to hear your back up and running strong soon. Last thing I like to see up in the mountains is a Polaris getting towed out. Only SKID OOS

this1ultraflyz · Mar 2, 2010

Just in case they did check out your crank properly check your chain case, chain tension etc.

E-Zmoke 4:20 · Mar 10, 2010

Just wondering what was the end result of this post? Any update?

M8 Rider · Mar 13, 2010

Polaris Vertical Edge Vibration

Sorry for the late reply. I really appreciated all the good advice! Here is what I found. The PTO side had four thousands runout. It seemed that topdead and bottom dead centers were off. But the most noticable one was marks left in the lower case half by the bottom of the PTO side connecting rod. We boxed up the shortblock and clutch last Thursday and sent them to SLP in Idaho Falls for repair.Again thank you for all the great advice and help!:face-icon-small-hap

Thank You
Mike

Hardass · Mar 18, 2010

So what about the dealer that checked and said it was fine?? will you ever go back there again?

M8 Rider · Mar 20, 2010

Polaris Vertical Edge Vibration

Yes I would go back and here is why. I asked for him to tear it down,clean it,look at it,install new seals,and reassemble. I should have asked him to check it for index. He said that it looked good. Also the new marks on the PTO side were not there when I tore it down the first time. In a nutshell I have learned alot during this experiance.:face-icon-small-hap

Reaper · Jun 19, 2010

Plan on replacing the crank every 2500 miles. I have a 04 800 and lost my first crank at 2800 miles and the second one at 2600 miles. Put a new balanced clutch on it every season and ran the $180 115 belts so as not to blow one and upset the crank. Didn't make any difference at all.

Both times the crank broke on the PTO side connecting rod, then Polaris goes and will only sell the entire crank instead of the parts you need.

Polaris can bend over and smooch me right on the butt, I went and bought a Cat!!!

Hardass · Jun 19, 2010

Sorry but any dealer worth a crud should have checked that while they had it apart.(why would they not?) Every one knows about the crank and case issues. I would not go back there again.If you want to it's your dime.

clutch man · Jun 19, 2010

E-Zmoke 4:20 said:
More often than enough the sled siezure was dignosed improperly. Cold siezures do happen but are very rare. I'd almost put money down that the bearings on the crank need to be replaced, and were the cause of the siezure. It's a simple fix if you catch them early. If you ride the sled and try to diagnose any further you could possibly cause damage to your case, snap your crank, or worse do both and take out your top end again. I strongly recomend tearing it down and having a proper look.

I have to say here this is very much wrong i run a repair shop and almost 50% of the rebuilds I do are from cold siezures, this hapens very often. If you have a four corner sieze it is from piston expanding to fast and the water is sill cold from the coolers (cold seizure).
As for the bearing when it fails it will send parts of the race up on top of the piston. when this hapens it will beat the top of the piston up. If the top of the piston was not beat up and it was just the sides of the piston scored it was likely a cold sieze.

clutch man · Jun 19, 2010

Reaper said:
Plan on replacing the crank every 2500 miles. I have a 04 800 and lost my first crank at 2800 miles and the second one at 2600 miles. Put a new balanced clutch on it every season and ran the $180 115 belts so as not to blow one and upset the crank. Didn't make any difference at all.

Both times the crank broke on the PTO side connecting rod, then Polaris goes and will only sell the entire crank instead of the parts you need.

Polaris can bend over and smooch me right on the butt, I went and bought a Cat!!!

This was not a crank problem it was a detination problem that was taking out your crank. Have seen it many time in my shop, every one that was broken alos had detination. I can buy the parts to fix just the pto or mag from polaris.

Reaper · Jun 19, 2010

clutch man said:
This was not a crank problem it was a detination problem that was taking out your crank. Have seen it many time in my shop, every one that was broken alos had detination. I can buy the parts to fix just the pto or mag from polaris.

I'm calling bull**** on detination as the cause, everyone I ride with has had or still has an 800 edge, and EVERY single one of us has lost the crank at least once. These motors range from bone stock to slightly ported and piped to all out case/jug porting and twin pipes. The cranks break from poor design, its not IF it breaks, its WHEN.

Polaris quit building the big block 800 because it is a ticking time bomb and everyone knows it!!

2003 Vertical Edge 800 Vibration

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