Lightning weights or IS new turbo weight

JJ_0909 · Jan 3, 2017

From a different thread

"the flatter or lower the helix angle,
the more side force will be exerted on the moveable sheave,
while the steeper, or higher the helix angle, the less side force
will be exerted on the moveable sheave."

This is basically saying there is more side force on the sheeve - EG shift out is quicker (which makes sense). But this would also imply belt squeeze is worse.

tdbaugha · Jan 3, 2017

sledhead9825 said:
How much more track speed are you seeing ?

I can't say numbers. My speedo is off and I can't look at the gauge while riding 20 mph through the trees. I will say this, same hill, same turbo kits, one sled with Tony's, one set with 10 series, Tony's has WAY more tractoring ability. It just keeps going whereas the 10 series has to turn out. Very noticeable difference.

As far as Lightning weights go, I was running the following setup: 10-74's, 165-310 primary, straight 40 and 155-222 secondary. Primary was shimmed about .015" belt to sheave. ~9-9.5psi on my boost gauge at 6000'

With Tony's setup and a properly shimmed primary clutch I ran Dans lightings at 78 grams without changing the boost. I had a lot of primary clutch heat. Those weights are similar but not the same as real ones.

With real lightnings I got the heaviest ones I could get which were 76.2 grams. Ran the same RPM with those weights. Primary clutch heat went way down. Since we ride a lot of slower (relatively) tree riding, last ride I geared down to 2.39:1 with Pro RMK pulleys and the heat went down even more.

Lighting weights will change your belt to sheave ~.030" further out. Ideally you want to be .030" belt to sheave with Lightnings installed. They are tucked under a lot so this is an important detail. If you install them on a factory clutch there's a good chance you'll be around .070"-.090" belt to sheave and they will act WAY differently.

Once we get it dialed in, I'll write start a new thread going over the details.

Peppa · Jan 3, 2017

tdbaugha said:
I can't say numbers. My speedo is off and I can't look at the gauge while riding 20 mph through the trees. I will say this, same hill, same turbo kits, one sled with Tony's, one set with 10 series, Tony's has WAY more tractoring ability. It just keeps going whereas the 10 series has to turn out. Very noticeable difference.

As far as Lightning weights go, I was running the following setup: 10-74's, 165-310 primary, straight 40 and 155-222 secondary. Primary was shimmed about .015" belt to sheave. ~9-9.5psi on my boost gauge at 6000'

With Tony's setup and a properly shimmed primary clutch I ran Dans lightings at 78 grams without changing the boost. I had a lot of primary clutch heat. Those weights are similar but not the same as real ones.

With real lightnings I got the heaviest ones I could get which were 76.2 grams. Ran the same RPM with those weights. Primary clutch heat went way down. Since we ride a lot of slower (relatively) tree riding, last ride I geared down to 2.39:1 with Pro RMK pulleys and the heat went down even more.

Lighting weights will change your belt to sheave ~.030" further out. Ideally you want to be .030" belt to sheave with Lightnings installed. They are tucked under a lot so this is an important detail. If you install them on a factory clutch there's a good chance you'll be around .070"-.090" belt to sheave and they will act WAY differently.

Once we get it dialed in, I'll write start a new thread going over the details.

I am testing a 50-44-F helix with 160/240 spring. Very close curve to the 46-32-F with 140/220 spring. My setup just shifts faster/more all the way. If i would go to a 180/300 spring it would almost be identical. But i'm running venom rooster turbo 10 series profile weights in the primary. Loaded to 76.5gr 6,5gr tip 5gr middle with a slp 170-300 spring on 6psi @1100-1500feet mtntk turbo 16 axys 163x3". Would be interesting if you could try Tonys secondary setup with 10 series style weights. How does the shift curve differ compared to 10 serie??

Spaarky · Jan 3, 2017

sledhead9825 said:
Sparky
Do you have a set of Lightning weights you would sell ?

Shoot me a message.

sledhead9825 · Jan 3, 2017

Spaarky said:
Shoot me a message.

Sent you a message. In the past I've had some problems with PMs if you don't see it soon let me know. Thanks

tdbaugha · Jan 3, 2017

Peppa said:
I am testing a 50-44-F helix with 160/240 spring. Very close curve to the 46-32-F with 140/220 spring. My setup just shifts faster/more all the way. If i would go to a 180/300 spring it would almost be identical. But i'm running venom rooster turbo 10 series profile weights in the primary. Loaded to 76.5gr 6,5gr tip 5gr middle with a slp 170-300 spring on 6psi @1100-1500feet mtntk turbo 16 axys 163x3". Would be interesting if you could try Tonys secondary setup with 10 series style weights. How does the shift curve differ compared to 10 serie??

The lightning weights are significantly different. They act totally different in the sled. Line up the two weights and only small difference is noticed in the ramp profile. But small changes can have a large effect. Dan's mock lightnings look "close". Performance was WAY different and they also ran 2 grams heavier. Lightnings are tucked more and have more tip weight than the 10 series.

sledhead9825 · Jan 3, 2017

tdbaugha said:
The lightning weights are significantly different. They act totally different in the sled. Line up the two weights and only small difference is noticed in the ramp profile. But small changes can have a large effect. Dan's mock lightnings look "close". Performance was WAY different and they also ran 2 grams heavier. Lightnings are tucked more and have more tip weight than the 10 series.

What base weight are your lightnings ? Sorry found it in a earlier post. 76.2 correct ?

sledhead9825 · Jan 3, 2017

Anybody have a TRS spec Helix they want to sell? Rogers is out of them and Venom is looking at 2 3 weeks

Spaarky · Jan 3, 2017

What are you running??? Sled, kit, boost, elevation.

sledhead9825 · Jan 3, 2017

Spaarky said:
What are you running??? Sled, kit, boost, elevation.

17 Axys 174 with Mtntk turbo at 9lbs. All my riding is the Sea 2 Sky corridor (Whistler) so around 6-7500 ft. Usually heavy snow but this year has been unusually cold so the snow has been a lot lighter.

sledhead9825 · Jan 3, 2017

Spaarky said:
What are you running??? Sled, kit, boost, elevation.

17 Axys 174 with Mtntk turbo at 9lbs. All my riding is the Sea 2 Sky corridor (Whistler) so around 6-7500 ft. Usually heavy snow but this year has been unusually cold so the snow has been a lot lighter.

sledhead9825 · Jan 3, 2017

wellfed777 said:
Here's the post I could find quickly
Hopefully this is the most current hard to search on my phone
Please forgive me Tony if this is in anyway wrong or putting words in your mouth

TRS
Here is my turbo setup. This is not a road race setup it's for high elevation back country riding. 8-9# boost with a TRS modified Boondocker kit.

20-46 gearing with 8 tooth 2.86 drivers 2.5" 163" track
46-32F ER helix 42-34F ER special cut from team
140-220 secondary spring
165-310 primary spring almond/red
75gram Lightning weights
This set up is for stock Polaris primary and secondary with stock sheave angles.

Is this running a OEM belt or Gates Carbon?

Spaarky · Jan 3, 2017

We all run the Gates.

Spaarky · Jan 3, 2017

Ok..... For those of you that are jumping to run TRS's clutching.... You need to follow some rules. Pro guys... Follow that set up down to the T. If you don't it will not work the same. Look at Tory and trying out the copy cat weights. I understand the Axys are a little different, plus we have guys with different boost ect.... You guys need to be patient. PLEASE!!! We have guys reporting and changing stuff weekly. They are VERY close... again it's not stamped off by Tony.

1.) with the Lightning weights you need to shim your primary
2.) if you drill the weights all holes MUST be drilled equally. Get a set of alphabet bits. Small bits at a time. The max you can drill them is 3/16 if I remember right.
3.) the helix will NOT LOCK into reverse. You need to machine the reverse groove to match stock. If you need help I can help you.

Crap... There is more, I will add as I remember them.

Also.... Remember Tony or none of us make any money off this. Tony is very involved in the Top of the World trail system and warming hut. If you can do something for Tony... Make a donation to Cooke City search and rescue or the warming hut or ask Tony!!!

tdbaugha · Jan 4, 2017

Another note, some guys with Sidekicks have been running 68.5 gram Lightning weights with Tony's setup. They are still tweaking but for those that want to start playing, Wahl has some 72's. That could work for some of the people that are running lower boost. FYI:

http://www.wahlracing.com/Lightning-Clutch-Weights.html

ez-ryder · Jan 4, 2017

I bought a set of 70 lightening weights from maverick on ebay.
They were a matched set 70.6
They were showing one more set.

Spaarky · Jan 4, 2017

Yeah I got the other set.

hontri · Jan 4, 2017

I am running 76.5 grams with my silber kit( 6000 feet). If i go to Lightning weights would i run the same grams? I see TRS is running 75 grams at his elevation. Really want to try his setup. Do Lightning weights come that heavy? If not how do you add weight?

LoudHandle · Jan 4, 2017

hontri said:
I am running 76.5 grams with my silber kit( 6000 feet). If i go to Lightning weights would i run the same grams? I see TRS is running 75 grams at his elevation. Really want to try his setup. Do Lightning weights come that heavy? If not how do you add weight?

According to the "SLP summary" for using Lightning Weights = plus 3 Grams from your normal weight.

According to a quick Google search
SLP has 70 Gram weights available
Wahl Broz has 72 Gram weights available

Nothing else came up of relevance

wellfed777 · Jan 4, 2017

belt sheave clearance is .020-.040 on Tony's setup
as close to .030 as possible is ideal

didn't see this in here yet

Lightning weights or IS new turbo weight

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