Low Forest Service visitation blamed on motorized recreation

Wade · Nov 29, 2008

This really pizzes me off.

National Forest Visitation off 13%, so now their looking for someone to blame it on. They blame usage fees, lazy people, video games, and motorized recreation. What a crock.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5g5n1rBdnAR0_w1JlL6-4Mc5_vMBwD94OPOA00

Here's what I think it is:

- Too much unused wilderness. Notice the decline follows the enactment of the wilderness act? Let's face it, people want to drive to a remote spot and set up a tent by the vehicle.

- Fees, not the cost, the pain in the azz they are.

- All the freaking rules that changes yearly, and make it were your never quite sure your legal. How many people have been caught on a road thats "closed" but no one knew it, or were to find the information?

- Azzhat forest service people, that accuse you of stuff with no proof.

- Reintroduction of big predators. People are scared to sleep in a tent.

- Crazy people running around the national parks and forests, and in some cases, citizens are not allowed to defend themselves.

- Access, the idiots are taking a large number of logging roads back to grade. Making the logging road unusable by cars.

- The population is aging, and due to limited access, they can't get into the woods as easy.

Besides, if you get rid of the noisy motorized recreationist, how will that help attendance. Whe make up a huge percentage of visitors, specially in the winter.

We need to find out who to contact, and do a little letter writing campaign.

JHG · Nov 29, 2008

I'm sure $4 a gallon gas didn't have anything to do with it either.

Wade · Nov 29, 2008

BigHoe said:
I'm sure $4 a gallon gas didn't have anything to do with it either.

From what I'm reading, their talking about a long term trend since after WWII. But yha, it's definitely off the last year, with gas prices the way they were.

94fordguy · Nov 29, 2008

Forest service has made it impossible to enjoy the outdoors anymore, they need to be dismantled permanently and replaced with an organization that can help the outdoor enthusiasts instead of hassle them!

SAWYER · Nov 29, 2008

agree^^^^^^^^^

The forest circus is a joke

Wade · Nov 29, 2008

I think I found the author's email address. Well see if he responds.

line8 · Nov 29, 2008

Personally speaking....I do not go as much because of limited access to the areas I used to enjoy going to. I have been up and down financially and the downs wouldn't keep me from enjoying the outdoors, I think you have it nailed Wade.

line8 · Nov 29, 2008

Oh, and I notice this evening I have a bunch of red dots. What happened?

Wade · Nov 29, 2008

line8 said:
Oh, and I notice this evening I have a bunch of red dots. What happened?

For some reason someone's given you negative rep, check the "User CP", it's up in the black menu bar at the top of the screen.

Wolfrun · Nov 29, 2008

We slept in tents in the Wind River Mts. for years starting 35 years ago. I bladed Forest roads a lot of years but about 10 years ago I started seeing those little hippy pickups with aluminum caps at wilderness trailheads that looked like toy trucks someone had gone after with a can opener. I always thought it was too bad the hippies weren't sleeping in them at the time. You won't catch me sleeping in any damn tent now. The grizzlies and wolves sure haven't added to my enjoyment of the forest. What makes the Gov't think they know what is best for us.

Raff_9001M · Nov 29, 2008

94fordguy said:
Forest service has made it impossible to enjoy the outdoors anymore, they need to be dismantled permanently and replaced with an organization that can help the outdoor enthusiasts instead of hassle them!

Good luck finding an organization that can do that impossible task. I think the biggest problem with the Forest Service is a funding issue. Too much money to lawsuits and firefighting. They have to rob Peter to pay Paul every year and that money comes directly from all their programs including recreation. As far as hassling goes, that is always an unfortunate situation. Public servants should always be helpful first before accusatory.

Skinner · Nov 29, 2008

Your right on this one. A lot of the time the rule change so fast that you don’t know if you are legal or not. They need to have a shake up.

m7bandit · Nov 29, 2008

the forest service can't do their job anymore because of the greenies so that only leaves them to come up ways for job justifycation, putting up signs,closing areas,roads many of which are reclaimed that require a substantial amount of funds. what i think is a dam shame even what is not taken into account are the elderly and the disabled that have payed taxes and are denied access. which i believe is a violation of there constitutional right to there pursuit of happiness.

Dogmeat · Nov 29, 2008

How can they possibly be blaming it on motorized recreation? They've banned that from damn near every place you could once use motorized vehicles to recreate ...

Ollie · Nov 30, 2008

Visitation to the national forests have been dropping for 30 years on a steep decline.
Amazingly enough, the more they shut down motorized access the less people go.
People don't have time to go camp anymore, but they will drive and spend a day looking around. Just look at trail ridge road. It is bumper to bumper on that from the day it opens till the day it closes. Yet the wilderness areas right next to it have zero people.

This is just another way the enviros play their games.
Example
As they shut down access the people don't stop riding, they just move to another area.
The enviro's start out their tyrades by saying there arn't many OHV's in the area so they should shut it down. IT works. The ohv's move.
Then they start with the OHV's are destroying the areas. They get it shut down and the OHV's move on.
Now they are to the third stage, there are too many OHV's in one area and you have to shut it down.

Same here. They are in the 3rd stage of their assault.
They have forced the family units to stop camping because it is too difficult to get in and out. OHV's and the hard core are about the only ones still going. So they just say that OHV's are the reason no one goes, when in fact the enviros have destroyed the fun of camping.

Disco Dan Richter · Nov 30, 2008

Well, I see it from both sides. I live agaist FS land in Mt, and the roads are designated roads for use. So in effect, no riding off the roads. The problem: More people ride off the roads than are imagined. Trucks, ohv, atv, bikes, and the result is tracks all over the place proving it. Now, how can we save ourselves, if we cannot police our selves?
Try telling anyone from MT that they arfe breaking the law aand you are going to report it? Might as well wear a bullet proof jacket, some people here are half witted and dont like to be told anything, so no one says a thing.

My solution:

Trail camera's all over for a certain period of time during peak usage. Nail the law breakers, hit them with a 50,000 fine, and get the word out. It wont take long before people get the hint. We are lucky to have what we have, and a few will ruin it for us all, they basically already have.
we can save our usage if we ALL obey the rules andd makes changes and find a common ground, but as long as both sides keep lying and screwing up, nothing will ever work out for both as a whole.

THe other solution:
If we cannot have motorized usage, neither can they. If we have to walk, they have to walk, etc.... in a sense, no usage. Leave it natural and no allocation of trespass for either side.

V-Man · Nov 30, 2008

My wife and I do tons of hiking and backpacking in Washington. It is so rare to so see any off road vehicles. At least around here, it feels like they are banned everywhere. I love to mountain bike too and that sport is nearly as restricted as motorized vehicles. At least in Washington, off road vehicles have absolutely no impact on why someone does or does not visit our forests.

I had dirt bikes growing up and never bought one when I moved out here. I just ride a street bike and snowmobile now. I have to travel too far to use it and most of the people I know aren't into motor sports. I need some new friends.

Wade · Nov 30, 2008

Disco Dan Richter said:
Well, I see it from both sides. I live agaist FS land in Mt, and the roads are designated roads for use. So in effect, no riding off the roads. The problem: More people ride off the roads than are imagined. Trucks, ohv, atv, bikes, and the result is tracks all over the place proving it. Now, how can we save ourselves, if we cannot police our selves?
Try telling anyone from MT that they arfe breaking the law aand you are going to report it? Might as well wear a bullet proof jacket, people here are half witted and dont like to be told anything, so no one says a thing.

My solution:

Trail camera's all over for a certain period of time during peak usage. Nail the law breakers, hit them with a 50,000 fine, and get the word out. It wont take long before people get the hint. We are lucky to have what we have, and a few will ruin it for us all, they basically already have.
we can save our usage if we ALL obey the rules andd makes changes and find a common ground, but as long as both sides keep lying and screwing up, nothing will ever work out for both as a whole.

THe other solution:
If we cannot have motorized usage, neither can they. If we have to walk, they have to walk, etc.... in a sense, no usage. Leave it natural and no allocation of trespass for either side.

I hear you, but what is the real cause of this problem? Too many people that don't care? Or, too many people crammed into too small of an area? Maybe the solution is to disperse usage. (after all, the greenies crammed us into smaller and smaller areas) Ticketing law breakers is OK, but the root cause needs to be identified. Some people believe that since we have so much "Wilderness", we need areas that are open. They used to allow people to go anywhere they wanted, and the forest is still worth saving. So, do the trails really hurt anything, over the long run? Or, is it a change in mentality?

Let's face it, compared to strip mining, or mismanagement of our forests (huge fires, beetle kills, ect.) It's kinda hard to get all wound up about trails. They will recover.

m7bandit · Nov 30, 2008

what gets me is they shove everyone into one area which really gets over use. its about people control and harassment they don't have anything else to do for keeping thier jobs.one place for an example they closed and reclaimed a trail for miles that had been used for yearssss from a campground dug trenches put up barracades all along,then routed it to a road. can you imagine the cost and time who wants to ride a fricken road? all from a trail that was not hurting absolutely nothing. and then post signs ( no kidding ) at every game trail in the country. makes one wonder how much is invested in signs alone.

Raff_9001M · Nov 30, 2008

Wade said:
I hear you, but what is the real cause of this problem? Too many people that don't care? Or, too many people crammed into too small of an area? Maybe the solution is to disperse usage. (after all, the greenies crammed us into smaller and smaller areas) Ticketing law breakers is OK, but the root cause needs to be identified. Some people believe that since we have so much "Wilderness", we need areas that are open. They used to allow people to go anywhere they wanted, and the forest is still worth saving. So, do the trails really hurt anything, over the long run? Or, is it a change in mentality?

Let's face it, compared to strip mining, or mismanagement of our forests (huge fires, beetle kills, ect.) It's kinda hard to get all wound up about trails. They will recover.

I would argue that user created trails do hurt and over the long run unless they are closed will not recover. The Black Hills, for example, is probably the most heavily roaded forest in the nation due to fairly strong timber program. Still, with all those roads and in certain parts of the forest, you will find an ATV trail in every single drainage, trails that cross a meadow/creek illegally in 10 different locations and ruts that lead to erosion and sediment problems. These same vehicles can also help to spread noxious weeds. The problem I have with this is there is an open road that will get an individual to the same location - albeit not as fun. The other problem, is that it only takes one group of off-roaders to create what many non-motorized users collectively see as an eyesore.

Some of these problems could be mitigated if the existing road system was allowed to be open so people don't cruise around barriers or find shortcuts. This makes sense in the Black Hills because more than likely they will use that road bed for timber extraction in the near future. Every forest is different with a different set of circumstances however.

I guess this has not much to do though with the original topic of less use. Sorry about that.

Low Forest Service visitation blamed on motorized recreation

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