Just wondering

aktreekiller · Mar 21, 2009

I was wondering why new snowmachines have so many problems and recalls. New Trucks, heavy equipment, four wheelers, outboards, highway trucks and numerous other vehicles rarely have recalls and major problems.Is it because sleds produce so much power? Theres really not that many parts that make a snowmachine operate correctly. Its frusrating to spend so much money on a sled and have it break under normal conditions. I'm ranting because of the terrible bog in my 09 hcr with only 200 miles on it. I'm afraid to take th y-pipe and look inside. One guy posted he lost an engine in only 37 miles. I'm hesisatant to get the 2010 HCR because of the new engine. Anybody have any thoughts. Tim

rockdog2112 · Mar 22, 2009

I think one reason is that the industry is so competitive that there is a huge rush to get new products out that will "hook" consumers. Because of this, I don't think there is as much research and development going on that is needed. Jmo.

PJ-Hunter · Mar 22, 2009

It's a combination of things. Getting a sled to perform at expectation while adhering the new EPA laws. The pressure and competition to produce the lightest, most powerful stock sled on the market while keeping production costs down and selling the sleds for 11-12k! Production of the parts always goes to the lowest bidder and the manufacturers get what they pay for. Example, the 08 driveshaft issues for BRP, the built-in adjustable risers for Cat, the motors for Poo and so on.

BYOB · Mar 22, 2009

All of those vehicle types you mentioned use primarily 4 stroke or diesel power. Automobile and heavy duty engine see millions of miles and hours before they ever hit the showroom, as they are designed to be used for heavy duty cycle work and/or high mileage use where longevity and economy outweigh performance as a design goal. They also can put a hell of a lot more development into them when they know that same engine will sell millions of units in various applications over as much as a decade or more.

Sled engines are high output 2 stroke motors, meant to pump out as much power for as little weight as possible while having a decent reliability factor for a target life of say 5000 miles? They are also evolving at a rapid pace technology wise and there is a learning curve there as well. They could build an 800 cc motor that would run for 100,000 miles reasonably reliably but it would be heavier requiring a beefier chassis and would also be much lower output. And nobody would ever buy it so why bother. Even if the motor would last that long the chassis would be outdated and wore out and probably would appeal to few.

Why is there a buzz around the 2010 cat 800? Its not because it is touted as bullet proof or super economy, it is because reports are leaking out about 160hp and everyone wants the most powerful sled. They build what we ask for and try their best to do it right.

decarls · Mar 22, 2009

BYOB said:
All of those vehicle types you mentioned use primarily 4 stroke or diesel power. Automobile and heavy duty engine see millions of miles and hours before they ever hit the showroom, as they are designed to be used for heavy duty cycle work and/or high mileage use where longevity and economy outweigh performance as a design goal. They also can put a hell of a lot more development into them when they know that same engine will sell millions of units in various applications over as much as a decade or more.

Sled engines are high output 2 stroke motors, meant to pump out as much power for as little weight as possible while having a decent reliability factor for a target life of say 5000 miles? They are also evolving at a rapid pace technology wise and there is a learning curve there as well. They could build an 800 cc motor that would run for 100,000 miles reasonably reliably but it would be heavier requiring a beefier chassis and would also be much lower output. And nobody would ever buy it so why bother. Even if the motor would last that long the chassis would be outdated and wore out and probably would appeal to few.

Why is there a buzz around the 2010 cat 800? Its not because it is touted as bullet proof or super economy, it is because reports are leaking out about 160hp and everyone wants the most powerful sled. They build what we ask for and try their best to do it right.

Like you said, I think the horsepower is the biggest issue. Rememer the old XLT motors or the 580 Ski-Doo's?? They were only putting out 94 hp but they lasted for 10,000 miles easilly. I think it's a pretty simple equasion... Low HP=Longevity. I talked to a guy who bought a new Yamaha this year, mechanic told him he should be able to get 50,000 miles out of that motor, who would want to ride the same sled for 50k miles!

KMMAC · Mar 22, 2009

Not true, look back to the 80's,, When I raced moto-cross, those bikes were sturdy. Yamaha's have always been decent sleds for durability. CORPORATE GREED, SHARE HOLDER GREED has alot to do with the problems with sleds today. EVERY BODY wants their profit first..... So when MONEY becomes the goal and not product quality this is the out come. As far as HYPE about certain new models let's just see how long the light weight crank lasts.

nmmiles · Mar 22, 2009

I think another factor is letting the buyer find the problems. Just like Bill Gates and Microsoft. He created a program that ran like $hit to begin with, and then as consumers came back and told him what they didn't like, or what was not working he would fix it, and make it better and send out an update. Obviously every business does this as part of their customer service which is great,but its been taken to far and now they are releasing things way to fast, and letting us find their problems. They are also telling their engineers, "build me a sled that is going to fail in X years." They do this so that you either give them more money through parts, or most likely, update to the new and improved sleds. Like said before, nobody wants to ride the same sled/chassis for 50,000 miles. So why put extra money/time into a sled thats going to get tossed out in 5,000? Its like putting the time into making a hand carved chandelier and putting it in a outhouse thats only going to be used at deer camp and then never thought about again.

Just my .02
-Nolan

aktreekiller · Mar 22, 2009

yeah

It seems the quality of alot of things are going down these days. We got a brand new 980g at work that has been down three times in two weeks under normal condtions. Our old 966 is a beast and is reliable as anything out there, and theres no plastic on the fenders or body parts. I hope my sled isn't dead, and its something simple like fuel pressure.

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Just wondering

aktreekiller

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rockdog2112

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PJ-Hunter

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BYOB

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decarls

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KMMAC

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nmmiles

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aktreekiller

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