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Real Man Made Global Warming

W
Nov 2, 2001
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Boise, Id
Reference Story

The accelerating destruction of the rainforests that form a precious cooling band around the Earth's equator, is now being recognised as one of the main causes of climate change. Carbon emissions from deforestation far outstrip damage caused by planes and automobiles and factories.

My take on this, the lack of responsible logging in our own country is a major environmental problem. The people responsible for stopping logging within this country; are more at fault for global warming than any motorized sport.

Reference Story

Scientists say deforestation in the tropics is responsible for about 20 per cent of all man-made carbon dioxide emissions blamed for global warming. Halting the destruction is widely regarded as a crucial part of any new climate pact.

Under a scheme called Reduced Emissions from Deforestation in Developing Countries (REDD), developing nations could earn billions of dollars through carbon trading by simply leaving forests such as in the Amazon and Congo basins.

So, instead of just reducing the market for deforestation in countries we can't control, we've decided to pay them to not cut. Great, we pay because greenies won't let us manage our forests. I think the greenies should pay. This is were the Kyoto protocol is heading, world welfare, watch "REDD" it's ineresting.

Reference Story

Now a team at UC Irvine has signaled that dirty snow can be responsible for over 35 % of the Arctic meltdown, besides global warming induced by greenhouse gases.

Snow gets dirty due to soot from tailpipes, smoke stacks and forest fires which enters the atmosphere and falls to the ground. Dark surfaces absorb sun energy and get warmer, while bright white normal snow surfaces reflect heat back into space, cooling the air.
"When we inject dirty particles into the atmosphere and they fall onto snow, the net effect is we warm the polar latitudes. Dark soot can heat up quickly. It’s like placing tiny toaster ovens into the snow pack," said co-author Charlie Zender, associate professor of Earth system science at UCI.

The important thing to take away from this story, is that forest fires are a major contributor to this problem. Forest mismanagement in the United States has resulted in more forest fires. Logging policies in the United States have also contributed to slash and burn, and coke production for steel, and clear cutting for forest products and land for Ethanol fuel and agriculture. This all combined is responsible for another 35% or global warming.

So all together I see about 55% of global warming is directly traceable back to anti logging campaigns within the United States.

Snowmobiles don't cause global warming, greenies do.
 
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I
Oct 3, 2001
348
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New Meadows ID
Good points Wade. Its always amazing to me that no one seems think about forest fires as contributing to this global warming. The burning of millions of acres of our forest due to the absolute lack of management, puts more CO2 into the atmosphere than all of our sleds put together. And if you think logging causes erosion than you should see the rain wash a slope that has been burnt to a crisp. The lack of logging as led to unnatural fuel loading and ultimately mega fires that are unmanageable.

This is a renewable resource that can feed families and fund local economies and to not use it, is insane! The biggest proponents of stopping global warming are infact the biggest cause IMO!!

That is if you believe in Global warming, but I'll save that for another day.
 
Keep in mind that CO2 retention in a mature forest is neutral-CO2 is trapped when the tree grows, released after it dies, either through burning or decay. To really "sequester" that CO2 the trees must be cut and kept in some form where they are not "released" back into the environment, say as construction material. So at best any non-managed stand is carbon neutral.

Everyone on here has been into our backcountry and seen just how overgrown our forests are, and seen the stands of dead and dying timber, waiting for a lightning strike to set it off. These overgrown stands are also very poor habitat for wildlife, it's too thick for there to be meaningful browse.

Always amazes me that our local "greenies" ***** about grass field burning but are quiet about forest fires.
 
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ruffryder

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a good article about some possible solutions,

princeton main cmi

note reforestation is one of them.

the link is fixed, click on the text in the upper right "Stabilization Wedges: Solving the Climate Problem for the next 50 years with Current Technologies"

It seems that you see the full version from there, but direct linking takes you to the sign up page.

Sorry should have checked.
 
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S
Nov 26, 2007
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Everett, Wa.
a good article about some possible solutions,

princton study

note reforestation is one of them.

Boy if that doesn't show your true colors I don't know what would. There are more trees growing in the United States today than there was in the last century and to assume that man can have a dramatic effect on the climate is totally in agreement with all of the enviornmental whackos who are watermelons, green on the outside and red on the inside. The days of this global warming lie are numbered and those who profess it will be shown the fools they really are. Swampy:D:)
 

ruffryder

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Boy if that doesn't show your true colors I don't know what would. There are more trees growing in the United States today than there was in the last century and to assume that man can have a dramatic effect on the climate is totally in agreement with all of the enviornmental whackos who are watermelons, green on the outside and red on the inside. The days of this global warming lie are numbered and those who profess it will be shown the fools they really are. Swampy:D:)

um that reply is based on the first post being accurate, you might want to read it. ;)
 
W
Nov 2, 2001
3,460
279
83
Boise, Id
Interesting article, basically it says Carbon Dioxide levels will stop rising eventually, if we stop producing Carbon Dioxide. It gives you a bunch of options. If seven of them are selected, the planet will be saved by not going above the magic limit of 500ppm, (we are currently at 350ppm)

It says all of this will reverse itself in 2054, which I believe also happens to be the latest UN world population model, reversal date. Humm.

Interesting options: Plant 750 Million acres of trees. Doable, I guess. They do realize that the United States happens to be 750 Million acres, were are you going to find that many acres, without trees on it. Convert our crop lands to tree farms. And, this would be tree farms, not forests. I listened to a lady cry the other day, because they were clear cutting private land in Oregon, how do you convince them to allow you to cut 750 Million acres of clear cut, fly helicopters in and selective cut? Might want to factor in the carbon emissions of a million helicopters fly continuously.

Basically, it's a business plan, that glosses over world population, and assumes mean world standard of living will fall (which it isn't). That everyone is going to play along (which I believe you can already guess the outcome of that). And somehow new technologies like 60% efficient coal fired power plants will become available now. Even without the scrubbers and with the latest magnetohydrodynamic power generation systems, that seems very unlikely. (and not do more environmental damage)

2 million 1 megawatt windmills? Ted Kennedy says no, not in my backyard.
 
X

XC700116

ACCOUNT CLOSED
Oct 2, 2007
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Milliken, CO
I've come to learn that all the hardcore greenies just flat out hate people and when you get to the end game of their overall agenda the only thing acceptable to them is extinction of the Human Race. They would rather see people extinct than a friggen bug. They're NUTS PERIOD!
 

xrated

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2 million 1 megawatt windmills? Ted Kennedy says no, not in my backyard.

I find it interesting that the Kennedys are such a liberal family, just so long as it doesn't mess up weekend sailing and wine!!

Not to mention what can happen to migrating birds who happen to fly in corridors with the most wind.
 

ruffryder

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Aug 14, 2002
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Interesting article, basically it says Carbon Dioxide levels will stop rising eventually, if we stop producing Carbon Dioxide. It gives you a bunch of options. If seven of them are selected, the planet will be saved by not going above the magic limit of 500ppm, (we are currently at 350ppm)

It says all of this will reverse itself in 2054, which I believe also happens to be the latest UN world population model, reversal date. Humm.

Interesting options: Plant 750 Million acres of trees. Doable, I guess. They do realize that the United States happens to be 750 Million acres, were are you going to find that many acres, without trees on it. Convert our crop lands to tree farms. And, this would be tree farms, not forests. I listened to a lady cry the other day, because they were clear cutting private land in Oregon, how do you convince them to allow you to cut 750 Million acres of clear cut, fly helicopters in and selective cut? Might want to factor in the carbon emissions of a million helicopters fly continuously.

Basically, it's a business plan, that glosses over world population, and assumes mean world standard of living will fall (which it isn't). That everyone is going to play along (which I believe you can already guess the outcome of that). And somehow new technologies like 60% efficient coal fired power plants will become available now. Even without the scrubbers and with the latest magnetohydrodynamic power generation systems, that seems very unlikely. (and not do more environmental damage)

2 million 1 megawatt windmills? Ted Kennedy says no, not in my backyard.

Yah, there are a lot of assumptions, I thought it was a good means of putting solutions into perspective as to the size changes needed (gigantic). I am not sure where the 60% number came from, I know that CHP (combined heat and power) plants are around that number, but I don't think they are talking about that.

I also think it is a good article in the stance that there is no one thing that would need to happen, it takes a lot of solutions that effect many different parts of our lives.
 
S
Nov 26, 2007
1,248
267
83
80
Everett, Wa.
Yah, there are a lot of assumptions, I thought it was a good means of putting solutions into perspective as to the size changes needed (gigantic). I am not sure where the 60% number came from, I know that CHP (combined heat and power) plants are around that number, but I don't think they are talking about that.

I also think it is a good article in the stance that there is no one thing that would need to happen, it takes a lot of solutions that effect many different parts of our lives.

Where is your reply in the Global Cooling post ruffryder, oh they use facts not assumptions. Swampy:D:D:beer;
 

ruffryder

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Where is your reply in the Global Cooling post ruffryder, oh they use facts not assumptions. Swampy:D:D:beer;

I think anyone that thinks they can predict change in our climate a fool. There is way too much to even think about with it, not even computers fast enough... I think it has more to do with sunspots than anything from what I have seen. The sun can be the reason for earth being what it is, but not the reason for small perturbations in the overall climate?:confused:

I have said before that the whole global warming thing is the demise of the environmental movement.

The facts are pollution, of our air, water, land........ those are the problems we need to face. Like that report about the Western US and Alaska having large amounts of Mercury in them.... coal plants in China.

There needs to be a major shift in how we utilize the land (more of it, efficient us of it) and how we generate and consume energy. We (the US) are trying to get there, but bad science never helps except to spend money.:rolleyes:

Oh and facts, all I saw was a graph with the last part downward sloping, while the average looked to be increasing? Predictions based on small number of years? Next thing we know we will be forgetting about seasons and we will have panics about global chilling in the winter and global warming in the summer.:rolleyes:

I hope this was enough for you, got blasted for only typing a couple of sentences before.

Out
 
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