Full SLP pipe vs Can and y-pipe

CB.8 · Jul 30, 2017

I need help deciding. I have been riding my 16 cat for two years now and love it. It does not have the pull on the top end that my 07m8 has. The reality is that I have probably been clutched a little high at 8150 on my 16.

My dilemma is do a diamond s can and bmp y-pipe which I have heard runs really good and has a very broad top end. This is about $700 but I don't have to modify any of the chassis, no melting plastic.
Or do the racinstion SLP pipe kit with re-flash for $1100. This requires some plastic to be modded, fuel line rerouted .... 10 years ago I was a modding freak, but today I like to ride.

Btw I ride 5 to 7k.

Vern · Jul 30, 2017

I have no experience with the pipe, but I have a diamond s can and ssi y pipe on my '14 and it holds its own very well.

boondocker97 · Jul 31, 2017

Is your 2016 a limited and do you happen to have the stock gearing and drivers in it? If so you need to gear that thing up. It will improve that pulling feeling.

CB.8 · Jul 31, 2017

My 16 is a limited geared at 21/49. Don't get me wrong it run goods but my 07 is amazing for being the red headed step child year. It has everything but a blower or big bore kit. 170 plus on pump gas. Silky smooth. Hell it is the wife's ride now.

Allseasons · Aug 1, 2017

Sorry I don't run that combo, but I found the ssi y pipe (ssi can also)helped low to mid, not peak hp. IMO it's mapping problem. My 16 on the throttle from 7/8 to WOT does nothing, don't believe it's clutching either as there is no change in motor sound. This is why I've been wanting reviews on Racinstation pipe/reflash kit. I can only compare this 16 against my old m1000 where I rode at 3/4 throttle most of the time, and the remaining 1/4 wot was my "get out of trouble" power shot. This m8 doesn't have that.

Again, imo, cans are useless other than sound desired, and the reeds, head domes and y pipe added low to mid range hp and torque at elevation. But only a seat of the pants opinion.

My last try to wake up the wot will be a 2.5 advance timing key, but I don't think that's going to do didly. It may be a lack of air availability as well. Who the hell knows

Suzzy-Q · Aug 1, 2017

I have an slp pipe kit on my 2012 with PCV5/timing control. it gave me the track seep I lost when I put my challenger x3 on and really woke the sled back up. I now have the SSI Y-pipe, can, low psi head, boysen reeds, and 2.5* timing key on my 17 mountain cat no fuel controller. Though the timing key was like the cherry on top for power my 17 doesn't have the long top end pull my 12 does. Could be partially to my 12 having a 2.52 c3 belt drive or just the nature of pipe vs stock pipe. I'm so curious to remove timing and put ssi pipe on and see if it will still be ok fuel wise

knifedge · Aug 31, 2017

Ive noticed the lack of top end pull is likely do to a to stiff a spring rate in the secondary clutch....right now installed is a 180/270 finish rate with a 43 degree helix.... and i want to try a 260 and a 250....was thinking 150/250 or so ... we will see
Stock is 180/240 with 48 helix...I may try that spring also with the 43 helix..

Edit: I also noticed a better shift using a 122/285 as opposed to a 120/310 primary spring using both Cat weights and MDS ... even with a stiff secondary

16 M8000
21/49
7 tooth

Vern · Aug 31, 2017

knifedge said:
Ive noticed the lack of top end pull is likely do to a to stiff a spring rate in the secondary clutch....right now installed is a 270 finish rate with a 43 degree helix.... and i want to try a 260 and a 250....was thinking 150/250 or so ... we will see

16 M8000
21/49
7 tooth

I agree with this. on both my current '14 cat and my old m7 I went against the "norm" when everyone was going stiffer and went to a lower finish rate in the secondary and saw much improvement in upshift/top end with no negative affects to backshift.

knifedge · Sep 1, 2017

Seriously questioning if a y pipe even gives any legit hp or torque gains anywhere in rpm range...
I have talked to Racinstation, Dynaport and SLP and they all say no gains anywhere to be had...all losing hp....Dynaport gained maybe 1hp with port matching over stock...
Cutler doesn't sell one either...

Is the ypipe thing a hoax or what???

---Buyer beware I suppose....

Vern · Sep 1, 2017

The only reason I bought the ssi y pipe before last season was because they had it on sale for cheap and I figured what the heck. To me it "feels" better, but who knows what it actually gained. Definitely don't think I lost anything.

My best judge of performance improvements come from comparing to a buddy who picked up a '15 pro the same season I picked up my '14 cat so we have comparisons from when they were both bone stock to what they were as of last season, after 2 full seasons on them.

knifedge · Sep 1, 2017

Vern said:
I have no experience with the pipe, but I have a diamond s can and ssi y pipe on my '14 and it holds its own very well.

But you also have good clutching, right?

How much do you think gained is from clutching vs ypipe and can?

I re -clutched and found large gains just from doing that...wondering what value each component gives..

knifedge · Sep 1, 2017

Vern said:
The only reason I bought the ssi y pipe before last season was because they had it on sale for cheap and I figured what the heck. To me it "feels" better, but who knows what it actually gained. Definitely don't think I lost anything.

My best judge of performance improvements come from comparing to a buddy who picked up a '15 pro the same season I picked up my '14 cat so we have comparisons from when they were both bone stock to what they were as of last season, after 2 full seasons on them.

Was the ypipe the only component you changed and you felt a difference?

Vern · Sep 1, 2017

So stock for stock my cat and his pro were dead nuts even in a race whether from a dead stop or from a roll, which was weird cuz the cat felt like it had way more power. First thing I added was the can and I don't recall that changing much. Then mid season I made the clutching change, which was just springs and cutting the spacer down in the sec., and that was a significant improvement. Now my cat would walk away from his pro on the top end, especially from a roll and just felt like it gained huge amount of top end.

That was two seasons ago, fast forward to last season. I added the y pipe, relocated the intake temp sensor, and modified my 2.6" pclaw, and did some handling mods. Nothing really for power mods other than the y pipe. My buddy, being one that does not like to be out done, went all out on his pro with a 910 bb, twin pipes, conquer track and some suspension mods. Once the snow flew however the results were not in his favor as now our sleds are once again basically dead even, mine might even still have a little edge on the trail on the top end. It was close enough he was accusing me of doing more than I did.

Now I'm not claiming the y pipe added the same power as a big bore. For all i know my sled didnt gain anything, and it just took all that work for his poo to catch up to a good running cat. Personally I think his BB is a bit disappointing and may need work, but it was tuned by the builder himself so who knows. I know its nothing scientifical, but this is just how these two sleds have compared from stock to adding mods. So i guess you could say the clutching made the biggest seat of the pants difference.

P.s. I just remembered I switched to the 083 belt about the end of the 1st season and that made a big improvement in consistency.

Old & slow · Sep 2, 2017

CB.8 said:
I need help deciding. I have been riding my 16 cat for two years now and love it. It does not have the pull on the top end that my 07m8 has. The reality is that I have probably been clutched a little high at 8150 on my 16.

My dilemma is do a diamond s can and bmp y-pipe which I have heard runs really good and has a very broad top end. This is about $700 but I don't have to modify any of the chassis, no melting plastic.
Or do the racinstion SLP pipe kit with re-flash for $1100. This requires some plastic to be modded, fuel line rerouted .... 10 years ago I was a modding freak, but today I like to ride.

Btw I ride 5 to 7k.

The 8150 is good for rpm, if your looking for more top end clutching and hp are what you need. The Jaws Big Shark will give you extra HP it works well. I mention Jaws as i have used one on the Suzuki 800. The Slp worked awesome on my 1k but i have no experience with the 800. I do like the Racinstation re-flash I haven't heard many comments either way. SSI offers a no controller mod kit, and pipe mod that looks interesting along with a Y for good gains,again no first hand experience. I have the same machine and am looking in a different direction. I am considering the drop and roll, after riding the ER, I want that and the new primary clutch. Those 2 things along with the new engine impressed me a lot, that sled worked great.

Old & slow · Sep 2, 2017

Allseasons said:
Sorry I don't run that combo, but I found the ssi y pipe (ssi can also)helped low to mid, not peak hp. IMO it's mapping problem. My 16 on the throttle from 7/8 to WOT does nothing, don't believe it's clutching either as there is no change in motor sound. This is why I've been wanting reviews on Racinstation pipe/reflash kit. I can only compare this 16 against my old m1000 where I rode at 3/4 throttle most of the time, and the remaining 1/4 wot was my "get out of trouble" power shot. This m8 doesn't have that.

Again, imo, cans are useless other than sound desired, and the reeds, head domes and y pipe added low to mid range hp and torque at elevation. But only a seat of the pants opinion.

My last try to wake up the wot will be a 2.5 advance timing key, but I don't think that's going to do didly. It may be a lack of air availability as well. Who the hell knows

Clutching will make a difference , I agree with the comments in this post about to stiff of a secondary spring. In 07 I tried the softer spring in my 1k and it was a huge difference. I have also replaced the one in my 16 limited with a softer one. Way back (early 90's) AC had awesome hi altitude kits for there sleds, then things changed where they were all the same in 07 they ran the same helix and secondary spring from the 570 to the 1000. Its still the same today, this is why we need to clutch for our riding style. A 250 lb hill climber is looking for different clutching than a 150 lb tree rider and vise versa. You see lots of people racing mountain sleds, they aren't made for speed. The goal for peak performance is to have the clutching at a 1:1 ratio at full throttle with the track speed at the max the engine will pull. The clutch needs to be hunting for more speed and be able to back shift quick enough to keep rpm constant. That's why your sled feels like the last bit of throttle does nothing as the clutching is not hunting and is totally happy to stay right where its at. If the track speed is 35 in wet sticky snow and the same in 4 feet of dry powder how much is the clutch doing to load the engine?
Sorry for the rant but I am disappointed with the OEM on this as with minimal effort they could be much improved. We should not have to gear our 16 ltd up from 19/50 AC knew that was too slow but did nothing.

Allseasons · Sep 2, 2017

Where the hell is Wyo on this

CB.8 · Sep 2, 2017

For what it is worth I went the proven route. Diamond S can and a BMP y-pipe. I am going to install them and throw 4 more grams of weight at it and report back. Looking at different dynos you will get a couple more hp on top (maybe 3) with the full pipe but the y-pipe can combo comes on way stronger sooner. The power band is way wider and at a lower rpm with the can combo. I rode triples for years and I would rather ride reliable torque then peaky screaming rpms.

kiliki · Sep 2, 2017

Allseasons said:
Where the hell is Wyo on this

ya thats what we need....One more over opinionated hole.

knifedge · Sep 3, 2017

Question ??

--How come western Mtn shops like SLP , Cutlers, and Kelsey dont sell individual y pipes?? If just adding a y pipe was actually a substantial and
worthwhile gain, I'm certain they would be all over it...

--I talked with Dale at Cutlers... he said he never saw any worthwhile gains...
--I talked with Starting Line Products and they will sell you a y pipe if you really want one , but no individual advertised big hp/torque claim installing a y pipe
--I talked with Richard at Dynoport ... He said the best one was BMP because it only lost 1 horsepower compared to others that lost more
--(Dynoport does make a Cat 800 y pipe that is port matched to the cylinders, welds deburred and joints sanded smooth for flow and it makes plus 2 hp but thats it, no big midrange 7 hp bump or anything..he said)( although probably the best quality y pipe available)(ypipe not listed on website, you have to call him to order...
--When dyno testing you can do a short, quick pull and using the inertia of the dyno, get a higher hp number to print out,,,but real world you need to run maybe 30 seconds to let the dyno stabalize and get an actual engine hp / torque reading...

--If someone bolted on a y pipe only with no other mods at that time and did back to back testing , I would like to here about the results

--Look up Dynoport Y Pipe on youtube he does a quick explaination of his testing....\

--So basically, I'm totally reconsidering spending money on clutching and a lightweight MTN Fit hood

--I realized big gains in clutching last season and expect to greatly improve on that this season

Old & slow · Sep 3, 2017

CB.8 said:
For what it is worth I went the proven route. Diamond S can and a BMP y-pipe. I am going to install them and throw 4 more grams of weight at it and report back. Looking at different dynos you will get a couple more hp on top (maybe 3) with the full pipe but the y-pipe can combo comes on way stronger sooner. The power band is way wider and at a lower rpm with the can combo. I rode triples for years and I would rather ride reliable torque then peaky screaming rpms.

Looking forward to your report.

Full SLP pipe vs Can and y-pipe

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