How many more people will want an xp turbo when the etec version comes out?
What are your thoughts?
What are your thoughts?
800 ETec turbo
- Thread starter brycter
- Start date
S
you think they are going to bring one out?
you turboing any 600 e-techs
you turboing any 600 e-techs
Sorry had one but sold it to do the 1200. There is still not much known about the fueling of these babies. the injectors work like a speaker voice coil and that is super far advanced. They will be out I am pretty sure of it. or at least i am betting on it. That is why we havent spent any money putting in injectors in the xp. Because as soon as you get one done they will bring out the etecs.
I do believe that that is what most people are waiting for.
I do believe that that is what most people are waiting for.
T
Did an E-tec turbo and if Doo brings out an 800 version I will run carbs for life! The E-tec has a long, long ways to go before it will ever turbo well IMO.
The good thing is that the grapevine rumor says no etec on the 800s.
Jake
The good thing is that the grapevine rumor says no etec on the 800s.
Jake
What was your troble on the etec
T
The injector is capable of 3 percent more fuel flow than it produces stock. So you have to piggy back a fuel system on top. That creates some mega issues with the fuel curve. So, if you get that under control you get the deal with erratic powervalves that cant really be messed with, timing curves going every which way, the stock fuel system reading too much fuel so it stops all fuel delivery and burns down.
A real mess.
Jake
A real mess.
Jake
Yeah But it will happen and i think that it is just around the corner. You will proably have to buy a different ecu and bigger injectors. Those injectors are crazy.
sometimes i think the manufactures are working to keep us from modifying there set ups. IMO if they would work with the customer their product would be alot better.
sometimes i think the manufactures are working to keep us from modifying there set ups. IMO if they would work with the customer their product would be alot better.
T
Ya, well I was witness to a phone call where the Doo guys stated "you will never figure out how to make it work" and after trying for a complete season I would pretty much have to agree.
Adding a bigger injector will cause some other issues. Without fuel cooling the crank case and main bearing we have never had any engine reliability. Then, you have to deal with the timing issues, powervalves knocking mega timing out of it all the time randomly.
If they go E-tec, I guess I will invest in whatever software it takes to alter everything and get it back to a system that will work.
Jake
Adding a bigger injector will cause some other issues. Without fuel cooling the crank case and main bearing we have never had any engine reliability. Then, you have to deal with the timing issues, powervalves knocking mega timing out of it all the time randomly.
If they go E-tec, I guess I will invest in whatever software it takes to alter everything and get it back to a system that will work.
Jake
R
The thing is, when ever someone says something like: "you will never figure out how to make it work" I can guarantee there are other people saying in their heads: "oh...we'll make it work with or with out you".
This is basically the principle some hackers work on.
You complicate (aka secure) something enough and its only going to draw attention to itself due to that fact alone..
I believe Etec has potential, even if Rotax/Doo/BRP is being a bunch of douchebags about sharing info on their tech, more so, how to alter/mod it to an end users specs... And that stance alone is going to push people to figure it out. Humans are consistant in that way.
EFI/turbo kits have come leaps n bounds in the snowmobile field in just the last couple years. With stand alone fueling and such things. I think Etec is just another step forward along this path.
This is basically the principle some hackers work on.
You complicate (aka secure) something enough and its only going to draw attention to itself due to that fact alone..
I believe Etec has potential, even if Rotax/Doo/BRP is being a bunch of douchebags about sharing info on their tech, more so, how to alter/mod it to an end users specs... And that stance alone is going to push people to figure it out. Humans are consistant in that way.
EFI/turbo kits have come leaps n bounds in the snowmobile field in just the last couple years. With stand alone fueling and such things. I think Etec is just another step forward along this path.
F
I think the problem lies in directly injecting the fuel. At high rpm the duration of the injector pulse is very short, and potentially too short to inject the amount of fuel the turbo needs. Simply injecting a higher volume of fuel in the same pulse width leads to poor fuel atomization and other problems associated. Adding injectors to the intake is a good idea and at this point in time it seems like the most practical idea, but in order to piggy back an external system to work with this one requires a substancial learning curve, expecially with a system as new as this and as advanced as this. It will be done, and this could potentially be the future of two strokes, so it's worth doing. Give it time.
Fack
Fack
T
I agree Fack...I think the pulse length is the limiting factor with getting enough atomized fuel into the combustion chamber for a turbo engine.
The problem with just piggy backing onto the normal system is that you lose what could be the major advantage of having control over the fuel delivery time. Can you imagine if we could make the Etec setup work for our purposes? We could back fuel timing out of it if it detected deto and that would allow us to push the envelope further per grade of fuel. But, once you piggy back onto the system, you have thrown away the only real advantage I can see to Etec. You no longer have control of the fuel timing.
That and very few people seem to grasp the major issue that a high output two stroke has when you stop putting fuel through the bottom end.
As for somebody figuring it out, yes and no. Nobody wants anything anymore complicated than needed on an all out hotrod setup. You get into a super tricky situation to get consistency out of the setup. Sure it can be made to work in a dyno cell or for a one shot hill puller, but complication fights you every step of the way when trying to build big outputs consistently for a complete season.
If we have to have fuel injection, I would love to see a throttle body injection setup on the same basic 800r engine. Then we could boost the tar out of that and have really good consistency! I personally dont really like injection. You leave power laying on the table by going to injection and that is fact. That and you are again adding unneeded complexity. But, if we have to have injection I would like it to be the simpest setup that will work as close to a carb as possible, and that is throttle body injection.
Jake
The problem with just piggy backing onto the normal system is that you lose what could be the major advantage of having control over the fuel delivery time. Can you imagine if we could make the Etec setup work for our purposes? We could back fuel timing out of it if it detected deto and that would allow us to push the envelope further per grade of fuel. But, once you piggy back onto the system, you have thrown away the only real advantage I can see to Etec. You no longer have control of the fuel timing.
That and very few people seem to grasp the major issue that a high output two stroke has when you stop putting fuel through the bottom end.
As for somebody figuring it out, yes and no. Nobody wants anything anymore complicated than needed on an all out hotrod setup. You get into a super tricky situation to get consistency out of the setup. Sure it can be made to work in a dyno cell or for a one shot hill puller, but complication fights you every step of the way when trying to build big outputs consistently for a complete season.
If we have to have fuel injection, I would love to see a throttle body injection setup on the same basic 800r engine. Then we could boost the tar out of that and have really good consistency! I personally dont really like injection. You leave power laying on the table by going to injection and that is fact. That and you are again adding unneeded complexity. But, if we have to have injection I would like it to be the simpest setup that will work as close to a carb as possible, and that is throttle body injection.
Jake
Last edited:
G
Fack, Triple 7.. both of you are grasping this perfectly..kudos:beer;:beer;
The dfi sytem brp is employing is the ficht system bought from OMC.
The ultra high,( hammered) fuel pressure required to flow the low volume needed at the STOCK power level is all that can be reliably flowed. Even MINOR changes to rpm or fuel demands send these sytems off keel.
hell, the rpm ceiling alone is so low that the systems ( orbital & ficht ) have very low power limitations as volume and rpm are problems.
These were designed to just barely fuel the 2 stroke thru a very narrow window of time area for EMISSION's purposes ONLY !!
Now, the piggy back is viable to provide the added fuel volume BUT the added cylinder pressure will have a negative affect on the hammer injectors too.
e tech is not for high perf use and will teach those who try too how determined brp is too thwart them..
can you,??, yes
will there be those who will pay the cost ? yes
Gus
The dfi sytem brp is employing is the ficht system bought from OMC.
The ultra high,( hammered) fuel pressure required to flow the low volume needed at the STOCK power level is all that can be reliably flowed. Even MINOR changes to rpm or fuel demands send these sytems off keel.
hell, the rpm ceiling alone is so low that the systems ( orbital & ficht ) have very low power limitations as volume and rpm are problems.
These were designed to just barely fuel the 2 stroke thru a very narrow window of time area for EMISSION's purposes ONLY !!
Now, the piggy back is viable to provide the added fuel volume BUT the added cylinder pressure will have a negative affect on the hammer injectors too.
e tech is not for high perf use and will teach those who try too how determined brp is too thwart them..
can you,??, yes
will there be those who will pay the cost ? yes
Gus
I was at Kawaski PWC skool back about 12 years ago..the Ficht just enterd on the 1100 watercraft..rpm was limited to 6800-7000 due "time" needed to inject fuel...its been 10 years to get it UP TO 8000 rpm on a little 600 twin...its a great way of doing it...STOCK...but to mod its gay...LOL-BJ
T
e tech is not for high perf use and will teach those who try too how determined brp is too thwart them..
That is the conclusion we came to. We decided that the system was so complex and so hard to manipulate even tiny amounts that it is not a viable hotrod setup.
If the 800xp comes with this setup, I will convert mine to carbs. Problem solved.
Jake
That is the conclusion we came to. We decided that the system was so complex and so hard to manipulate even tiny amounts that it is not a viable hotrod setup.
If the 800xp comes with this setup, I will convert mine to carbs. Problem solved.
Jake
and the same thing that the 600 and the 1000sdi had which i think will come back around with the etech is the crank bearings guming up with belt dust, and nuking especially under really heavy load, in the 600 they should be fine, but more load is easier to break!!
direct injection turbo power is sick stuff, but the etech system just seems like a poor base. tdi, is a good system, just the di system doo is using is a pile of poop for anything over stock power.
direct injection turbo power is sick stuff, but the etech system just seems like a poor base. tdi, is a good system, just the di system doo is using is a pile of poop for anything over stock power.
N
E-tec with turbo
I would have bought one. Was waiting for boondocker's too come out with one. But I don't think it will happen soon. I hear they have problems!
I would have bought one. Was waiting for boondocker's too come out with one. But I don't think it will happen soon. I hear they have problems!
Similar threads
