The UP of MI is alot different than out west but it is not uncommon to see Vipers and Sidewinders playing off trail here. I think the main reason is the sidewinders can be had for a stupid low price, a local dealer is selling a new 2016 MTX 162 for $6,300. I dont mind the extra weight when you have an easily accessible trail within a mile of your location but out west you can get well off the beaten path and be SOL if you are not a decent rider. I absolutely love the reliability of these machines and am a firm believer that the chassis is stout, but like mentioned before there is one main issue that needs to be addressed... WEIGHT!!! I do not care with a simple reflash you can be making 300hp when I bury the thing once and I want to be done riding for the day or all of my buddies are giving me **** about getting a "tank" unstuck. I love everything else yamaha but feel that they have almost given up on the sled industry and wish they would invest more R&D time into these machines.
Why I started riding Yamaha again
- Thread starter Turblue
- Start date
Weight issues
One thing I'd like to see is a 2 stroke, with electric start, and a turbo to see how much weight you are actually loosing. I am all for removing the reverse on my sled since I never use it, but I won't pay 1100 to do it. With doos new estart in theory I'd only have to pull start the sled once which would be nice on my screwed up shoulders but until then I'll stick with e start. Battery, starter, starter ring, and extra reverse gears comes out to a decent amount of weight. I'd love for Yamaha to focus on those. And replacing the track with a conquer 280. Electronically reverse would be awesome, but I see no way to do it. And getting rid of the battery and going to a system like Doo would also be great but then the first start up you'd have to b plgged into something. I think lithium battery is a start and just did this as my battery crapped out last season. Easy 10 lbs, if reverse delete was a factory option I would do it, since I've had my sleds I don't think I have ever used reverse. And then changing out that giant oil tank to something else would be nice. Light weight parts are out there, and the good thing is the sled will be around if you want to spend the money on those lightweight parts.
One thing I'd like to see is a 2 stroke, with electric start, and a turbo to see how much weight you are actually loosing. I am all for removing the reverse on my sled since I never use it, but I won't pay 1100 to do it. With doos new estart in theory I'd only have to pull start the sled once which would be nice on my screwed up shoulders but until then I'll stick with e start. Battery, starter, starter ring, and extra reverse gears comes out to a decent amount of weight. I'd love for Yamaha to focus on those. And replacing the track with a conquer 280. Electronically reverse would be awesome, but I see no way to do it. And getting rid of the battery and going to a system like Doo would also be great but then the first start up you'd have to b plgged into something. I think lithium battery is a start and just did this as my battery crapped out last season. Easy 10 lbs, if reverse delete was a factory option I would do it, since I've had my sleds I don't think I have ever used reverse. And then changing out that giant oil tank to something else would be nice. Light weight parts are out there, and the good thing is the sled will be around if you want to spend the money on those lightweight parts.
Most Turbos on 2 strokes add VERY little weight because you remove the giant stock muffler. On a Silber kit for an Axys the stock muffler weighs 19lbs, and the entire turbo assemble weighs 21lbs. Then you remove the stock air box and remove more weight. When its all said and done you might have added 4-5lbs.
Electric start kit from polaris adds 33lbs... thats ring gear, starter, battery, cables, etc. The battery weighs 14lbs, so you can cut the total weight to 20lbs if you do the lithium battery.
Yamaha cares VERY little about snowmobiles, and even less about mountain sleds. If you didnt know, they dropped about 75% of their models for 2019. They went from 47 different sleds down to 12, and of those 12 there is 1 utility and 2 kids sleds. So 9 sleds you can choose from.....but 5 of them are snow check only!
I think their contract for Cat chassis' ends soon. With that, Cat having new owners and dealers all over the west sitting on un sold models and not ordering more, they could just be done...
We know they could field a world class sled, they just haven't really put in the effort for the last 20 years or so.
We know they could field a world class sled, they just haven't really put in the effort for the last 20 years or so.
B
My number one reason for owning the new Sidewinder is that they don't smoke. I get sick from the two stroke smoke. Literally throw up. The sled Im following, or the one Im riding, it doesn't matter.
On top of this, I am just a casual rider. Powder filled meadows, some hill climbs, and just ripping around the mountains with my friends and family.
I want massive power (the world most powerful factory sled will do) upmost in reliability, cool looks (in my eye), comfort, NO SMOKE, no messing with premix oil and little to no maintenance. Most of these come at the cost of weight, and I simply don't care. The give and take is worth it to me. I do well for a living, so cost is not a first and foremost factor.
The new Skidoos are awesome, I really like them as well. Im not hung up on brands at all. In fact, the new turbo 900 ACE looks interesting for my wife! Jus need to put a better skid on it.
I most certainly do not want to get involved in banter. I just thought I would share why the Sidewinder works for me per the OP's request.
On top of this, I am just a casual rider. Powder filled meadows, some hill climbs, and just ripping around the mountains with my friends and family.
I want massive power (the world most powerful factory sled will do) upmost in reliability, cool looks (in my eye), comfort, NO SMOKE, no messing with premix oil and little to no maintenance. Most of these come at the cost of weight, and I simply don't care. The give and take is worth it to me. I do well for a living, so cost is not a first and foremost factor.
The new Skidoos are awesome, I really like them as well. Im not hung up on brands at all. In fact, the new turbo 900 ACE looks interesting for my wife! Jus need to put a better skid on it.
I most certainly do not want to get involved in banter. I just thought I would share why the Sidewinder works for me per the OP's request.
https://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=444439
2019 sled weights, full of fuel and ready to ride.
2019 sled weights, full of fuel and ready to ride.
That’s a cool comparison...who knew the doo is that heavy compared to the poo...and even 2 gallons less fuel in the doo...interesting.
As for the Sidewinder, if a guy added a LW exhaust, hood, and battery....153 2.6 not the 162 3” they actually measured.....and the doo&cat had electric start(not shot) and a turbo installed they would be pretty close to each other. Lol
As for the Sidewinder, if a guy added a LW exhaust, hood, and battery....153 2.6 not the 162 3” they actually measured.....and the doo&cat had electric start(not shot) and a turbo installed they would be pretty close to each other. Lol
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Well there is only a handful of us left, but I can't let the power/reliability of my Apex's go. Been riding turbo yamaha's since 2007 and have owned 3 turbo rx1's and 3 turbo apex's. I haven't ridden a sled yet that I like as much as my apex's, but I haven't been on a sidewinder yet. I hated the nytro handling. Not impressed with the vipers either.
My impulse apex has over 6000 miles on it with stock motor, the alpine apex odometer quit working at 9992 miles.
Best part is that most people don't even know what kind of sled it is anymore, but it sure grabs their attention.
Most of the riding we do is in the trees. There are a number of rides we do a year that are 15+psi turbo 4 stroke only days. 3' of powder or more and we climb chute to chute to get back in. Turbo 2 strokes can not make it.
That being said the guys that really ride these sleds are usually over 6' tall and have been riding their whole lives.
And yes at the end of the day it feels like I lost a battle with a 13' tall 700 pounder. But I like that feeling and its worth it to me.
We will see how long I can hold out for, hoping for another 10 years.
Here's a couple gopro clips. There are not edited very well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_O8K-g3Y0ns
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbrLlk6m6CE
My impulse apex has over 6000 miles on it with stock motor, the alpine apex odometer quit working at 9992 miles.
Best part is that most people don't even know what kind of sled it is anymore, but it sure grabs their attention.
Most of the riding we do is in the trees. There are a number of rides we do a year that are 15+psi turbo 4 stroke only days. 3' of powder or more and we climb chute to chute to get back in. Turbo 2 strokes can not make it.
That being said the guys that really ride these sleds are usually over 6' tall and have been riding their whole lives.
And yes at the end of the day it feels like I lost a battle with a 13' tall 700 pounder. But I like that feeling and its worth it to me.
We will see how long I can hold out for, hoping for another 10 years.
Here's a couple gopro clips. There are not edited very well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_O8K-g3Y0ns
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbrLlk6m6CE
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Holy **** the sound! I was grinning ear to ear watching (listening) to that. Sounds like a fahkin nascar.
Got goose bumps from those! Awesome ! Thanks. Brings back memories.
Looking like great times Jesse!
Lets hope you guys get plenty of those three foot plus powder days this year.
Lets hope you guys get plenty of those three foot plus powder days this year.
Nothing sounds better to my ear than a turbo apex!
You have mentioned them being "pretty close" in weight a few times now. The truth is, there is a 100lb difference to start. Adding 25 lbs to one and taking 25lbs off another still leaves a 50lb difference. 50 lbs right over the skis is still a pretty big penalty IMO. Adding electric start is silly, almost nobody is going to do that to a turbo 2 stroke just to make the comparison seem "fair" to you so the real world difference is back to about 70lbs IF you can get 30lbs off your Yammi, IF you want a 200 hp sled on a 153x2.6 instead of a 3", not sure who would do that either...
It remains a BIG difference. The story about turbo 4 strokes going where turbo 2 strokes can not is pretty funny. I am not sure how you figure a lighter, just as powerful machine can't do what a heavier machine can. 15 psi race gas 2 strokes exist and make the same power as 15 psi 4 strokes but weigh at least 100 lbs less than the 4 stroke Apex. You are just riding with the wrong 2 strokes... I understand avoiding apples to apples when your chosen brand is that far behind but it is kind of dishonest don't you think?
TORQUE …… two stroke turbo vs four stroke turbo is not apples to apples at the same rated hp. "pretty funny, riding with the wrong two strokes, and or dishonest" are only words spoken by someone that has never witnessed the difference between the two platforms in the field.
H
I bought an RX1 in 04 and installed an Alpine kit on it with no headshim the first season. I was impressed. I still have it and Bought a new summit xm in 2013. loved it but not enough power and rode 2 turbo xms that didnt run clean. Just bought a 2013 Apex and looking to possibly boost and bought a 153 track for it. Such a sweet engine and the power steering is so welcome to me.
"TORQUE …… two stroke turbo vs four stroke turbo is not apples to apples at the same rated hp. "pretty funny, riding with the wrong two strokes, and or dishonest" are only words spoken by someone that has never witnessed the difference between the two platforms in the field. "
Calling BS on that. Nice attempt at a power play but I doubt you can back up the torque advantage with dyno sheets. Doesn't matter at peak hp anyway since hp is just calculated from torque and rpm. Please stop making up stupid chit to try and sound like there is some mythical difference.
I have seen them side by side. I have never seen a 4 stroke that impressed me. Straight line speed is great but those things are way to much work to ride anywhere else, especially a turbo Apex, OMG what a tank.
Calling BS on that. Nice attempt at a power play but I doubt you can back up the torque advantage with dyno sheets. Doesn't matter at peak hp anyway since hp is just calculated from torque and rpm. Please stop making up stupid chit to try and sound like there is some mythical difference.
I have seen them side by side. I have never seen a 4 stroke that impressed me. Straight line speed is great but those things are way to much work to ride anywhere else, especially a turbo Apex, OMG what a tank.
Here's a clip with some tree riding. Had a loose side panel that day blew a couple belts...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enRmaklgkyM&t=342s
I am sure there are some really strong running 2 strokes out there, and yes it is a workout to ride turbo yammi's. I owned a good running turbo M1000 on race gas and have installed and ridden an assortment of turbo Pro's. The best comparison for me is like diesel to gas trucks.
Doesn't matter to me what you ride as long as you're having fun...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enRmaklgkyM&t=342s
I am sure there are some really strong running 2 strokes out there, and yes it is a workout to ride turbo yammi's. I owned a good running turbo M1000 on race gas and have installed and ridden an assortment of turbo Pro's. The best comparison for me is like diesel to gas trucks.
Doesn't matter to me what you ride as long as you're having fun...
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