Loud Exhaust On Snowmobiles... Is there a place for this anymore?

Hardass · Oct 11, 2009

I have to ask where is the loud sound of our sled the biggest weapon against us? i have been involved in this greenie thing a bunch of years and have never and i mean never been to a meeting where they were claiming loud sled were hurting any thing. Are you talking yellow stone? or where? in the east? mid west? Animals are the biggest weapon against us that i have seen and that is mostly a farse. if you really beleive that quite sleds are going to keep our areas open, i think you are mistaken. mind you i'm not saying it's ok but i do not see that as the reason sledding is getting shut down.

Blu Du · Oct 11, 2009

LMAO blame loud pipes for areas shut down. i don't buy it it is snowmobiles in general. liter is a big part also

modsledr · Oct 11, 2009

Hardass said:
I have to ask where is the loud sound of our sled the biggest weapon against us? i have been involved in this greenie thing a bunch of years and have never and i mean never been to a meeting where they were claiming loud sled were hurting any thing. Are you talking yellow stone? or where? in the east? mid west? Animals are the biggest weapon against us that i have seen and that is mostly a farse. if you really beleive that quite sleds are going to keep our areas open, i think you are mistaken. mind you i'm not saying it's ok but i do not see that as the reason sledding is getting shut down.

good question and good points.

The noise is just one issue that will turn an othewise neutral person against us. Just like litter and trespassing. Probably wont be used by the lawyer in the courtroom, but it WILL drive people to join the green movement..and give their dollars and support to the other side.

And ultimately, it's this numbers game that we are losing...letters and signatures and dollars. We are a very passive user group in general. Those who get involved in the fight get burned out quickly...last year at the Puyallup Snow Show it was very disheartening to see SLEDDERS not sign up for SAWS (which is free!!) because they didn't want to give out their email address!!

sorry for the soap box, but that is the bottom line and why these seemingly small issues matter.

Engine Pro 5x · Oct 11, 2009

Ok I'll throw some more chips on the table !! About 25 years ago we stopped to eat at the bottom of the trail in Grand Lake. It was mid morning so we witnessed all of the daily riders heading up the hill. Now I didn't count the sleds but I'd say 80 to 100 passed by the spot we were at. Now my comment was that every time we stopped for a break we never heard another sled. So my point is there were tons of sleds on that hill and we couldn't ever hear them when we would stop. So IMO this was before all of the aftermarket pipe stuff hit the market and people seemed to be a bunch happier. Don't get me wrong as I don't say quit making the aftermarket stuff but I do think that the loud exhaust has a time and a place. Please remember I speak from experience on this and it is JMO >>>>.

CatWoman · Oct 11, 2009

The enviro zealots will use anything, so why give them one more thing to use. Start taking away the tangible reasons they use, and over time their arguments get whittled down to petty stuff and seen for what it really is.

LOUD doesn't mean better performance, it is just annoyingly LOUD. I don't like listening to it.....and I understand why others don't either. Riding is a passion for me, and I enjoy the outdoors year round. I don't look at a loud sled and say "oh gee, that must be one hot machine". I look at it, and shake my head thinking that the person riding it must not care about Land Use, or how other people feel (including other sledders), only caring about themselves. There are actually quite a few fellow sledders who can't stand the noise either......so that loud sled is not only irritating the non-motorized crowd, it's also irritating others who do ride.

This is something we can regulate ourselves on, though some choose not too, and unfortunately that choice will have consequences at some point. I live in an area that has seen huge amounts of land closures, and trying to fight off more. We are also being regulated on the dates we can ride. The zealots do use the noise issue. Close land down to spring riding because they can hear the loud machines from their wooded homes, and that has to have an adverse effect on the Grizzly Bears coming out of hibernation. Yes, that is currently being used, and likely will yet again prevail in court.

This is something that is within our power to control. We need to educate our own. Instead of tossing money away and the only thing you are gaining is noise, why not get a true performance item for your sled?

skidoorulz · Oct 11, 2009

My take is no matter what we or the industry does the enviro nazis will always try to shut us down. Yellowstone is proof of this statement. Nothing but 4 stroke sleds allowed in the park. Now we must limit the number per day. Now we want to limit that number even more. The actual number that they are looking for is 0. And the sooner we realize that no compromise will be good enough for these people, short of crushing all our toys and we all start driving Flintstone mobiles, the better it will be for our sport.

modsledr · Oct 11, 2009

skidoorulz, that is exactly the point...nothing we do will stop them from trying to shut us down...BUT, what we can do is not give them ammo to recruit more numbers.

IMO, this has never been about any one item stopping the movement...it is about representing our sport like respectful and responsible adults...and not acting like a buch of juvenile delinquents (this statement is not directed at anyone...so dont get your pant!es in a bunch)

:beer;

moyiesledhead · Oct 11, 2009

Hardass said:
I have to ask where is the loud sound of our sled the biggest weapon against us? i have been involved in this greenie thing a bunch of years and have never and i mean never been to a meeting where they were claiming loud sled were hurting any thing. Are you talking yellow stone? or where? in the east? mid west? Animals are the biggest weapon against us that i have seen and that is mostly a farse. if you really beleive that quite sleds are going to keep our areas open, i think you are mistaken. mind you i'm not saying it's ok but i do not see that as the reason sledding is getting shut down.

I've also been sitting through meeting after meeting with enviro's and government agencies over sled issues for at least the last 15 years. I agree it may not be the "biggest" weapon against us, but it comes up at some point at each and every meeting. Sure they'll never stop attacking us....so the only strategy we have is to take away their amunition. Can't fight if they're unarmed! This "should" be an easy one for us to eliminate, but we all need to understand that it's better to make small sacrifices in order to fight against the big ones. In my mind being quieter is a pretty small sacrifice to make in order to maintain access to the backcountry. JMHO

2XM3 · Oct 11, 2009

You know the first thing I always ask at FS travel plan meetings is, thank you for having this meeting, now how many of the closed areas are we going to finally reopen??? well guess what happens

then...lol..yeah...its a freakin no win deal.

..same with the "noise" issue..I tell u what it has to be like this.."OK we all run quiet pipes :rose:and in return you re open this 200,000 acres of wilderness to sledders for all time....and thats the end of that....

ace59 · Oct 11, 2009

When i tell someone i snowmobile, they usually wrinkle their nose and think smoke and noise. We are addressing the smoke issue, noise needs to be next.

As a previous poster noted, Harleys seem to get around the noise issue. I think it's just not enforced; yet. My .02

sledhead_583 · Oct 11, 2009

we need zero noise sleds so the animals don't hear us and instead of getting scared away a deer can see a sledders headlights and run into them potentialy killing them self and the rider to but dont worry, as long as there is no noise everything is good.........

well im exagerating but you get the idea,i dont like annoying sleds either but a little braaaaaaap is nice to hear though.......

skidoorulz · Oct 11, 2009

ace59 said:
When i tell someone i snowmobile, they usually wrinkle their nose and think smoke and noise. We are addressing the smoke issue, noise needs to be next.

As a previous poster noted, Harleys seem to get around the noise issue. I think it's just not enforced; yet. My .02

I have never had that reaction from anyone. Most people only know about snowmobiles by what they see on the news, and that is the smoking cold started sleds sitting in front of the rental shop belching smoke. What isn't said on the news is that once these motors reach actual operating temps that the smoke virtually disappears and they run much cleaner.Usually the first thing I hear is aren't you afraid of being buried in an avalanche? Everyone I have ever taken riding for their first time ever, and there have been many, can't beleive the solitude, the scenery and the country one can cover on a sled. They have also commented on how peaceful the mountains are in the wintertime and how you can go all day and not see a soul. These people include people from east coast and west coast and even one good freind from Mexico. I have never been told by anyone that I am ruining the enviroment after a good responsible day on the snow. I have asked many if they would be able to tell me in June or even after the next snowfall where we had been and they all said no.

mountainhorse · Oct 11, 2009

It is NOT the extreme environmentalists that will close down the lands to motorized access....It is the PUBLIC at large that will...Thier opinion is based on things they can see and hear....

we need zero noise sleds so the animals don't hear us and instead of getting scared away a deer can see a sledders headlights and run into them potentialy killing them self and the rider to but dont worry, as long as there is no noise everything is good.........

The quietest Stock sled made would Still scare off a deer or other animal.... this is not even really a point is it 583?

its a freakin no win deal

Actually it is... Don't take something as easy as this to 'fix' and refuse to do it.

I tell u what it has to be like this.."OK we all run quiet pipes and in return you re open this 200,000 acres of wilderness to sledders for all time....and thats the end of that...

Not going to happen....the sleds should be quiet to start with....just like the Harleys with straight pipes....

Citys have noise ordinances so that YOU are not bothered by every motorhead that would run open pipes on their bike/car/truck...
There really are not that many noise ordinances for the sleding world, YET, compared to the large amounts of riding areas out there... sure we have yellowstone and the new Colorado dbA rulings... but this is a drop in the bucket.

It boils down to this.... People who dont have feelings one way or another about sledders WILL become opposed to them if the exhaust noise remains high...

Fact is also....There are MANY MORE sleds out there than there used to be, heck look at the population of this site alone.... There are more people that think it is cool to have a loud exhaust on their sleds.... same as the 1950's on the streets with hotrods.

How many straight dump exhausts do you see driving around your town without getting tickets. Probably very close to NONE.

4 "Skinny Skiers" came down the hill and scowled at the whole group just for being there and leaving tracks in "Their" snow.
Noise had nothing to do with their pre-conceived opinion of our sport.

Noise MAY have something to do with it... maybe the skinny skiers in this group got buzzed by a close flyby of some obnoxious Apex with straight dump turbo or a twin piped 1000 with race stingers (they call them stingers for a reason). Maybe that happend just the past weekend... Maybe a snowmobiler , as one member of this forum put in a past post, went "clickity click over thier planks with thier cutter carbides, f***ing treehuggers, they make me sick"... maybe that is why they scowled at you. Maybe you image of "skinny skiers" is why you probably scowled right back.

By not acting like responsible people....just like the loud Harley guys.... WE, as Snowmobilers are becoming our own worst enemies.... much more so than any environmental group because we are making the ammo that is being shot back at us and the public at large that Does have the power to shut down sledding and other motorized public land access.

AGAIN... it is the PUBLIC OPINION that matters here.... Those people are NOT GREENIES or Motorheads... just people that vote and pick representatives that decide what is going on.

I hear "I'm not going to give them the satisfaction" OR " They wont tell me what to do".... Well, the public is NOT asking for your permission.... That is just the way it is.

Police ourselves or someone will do it for us!!

mountainhorse · Oct 11, 2009

it doesn't matter how whisper quiet our machines are we will still be attacked by the extreme greenies

True True...

But we are not talking about ONLY greenies here.

Lets make that clear.

Loud exhausts can turn someone, that is not opposed to sleds, into a 'greenie' on the topic of snowmobiles real quick though. Most aftermarket exhausts are borderline obnoxious (or full blown)... the less expensive ones especially....even more so as the packing burns out and it is not replace. There are more cheap exhaust sold OR turbo systems without mufflers than quiet units.

If your extra 3.8 hp comes at the cost of me loosing my priveledge of snomobiling in the backcountry... the choice is easy for me.... and it should be for you too.

Race pipes don't belong on the mountain, IMO.... unless you can make them sound reasonable.

And.... Snowbilers are still looked at like the Koresh Branch Davidians of the backcountry world by the public at large.... those things that stand out like littering, loud exhausts, sleds that are out of tune and belching smoke, destruction of property... all these little things that can be fixed easily are going to give us the same fate a the Waco group if WE dont fix them.

montanasledder · Oct 11, 2009

never liked loud, think companies like SLP are doing a good job of creating aftermarket exhaust that perform well and still have respectable noise limits and have a good sound.

ride with guys that you can hear for miles on sleds and dirtibikes also.

Yamahamod · Oct 11, 2009

Adrenaline Revolution said:
I too feel like the insanely loud pipes are hurting us but really, it doesn't matter how whisper quiet our machines are we will still be attacked by the extreme greenies who want the trees and squirrels for themselves, not to be intruded upon by anyone else' favorite way to recreate and see the countryside.

I was in one of my favorite riding areas a while back (not a groomed area but back country) eating lunch with all my riding buddies with ALL the machines turned off for over an hour.
4 "Skinny Skiers" came down the hill and scowled at the whole group just for being there and leaving tracks in "Their" snow.
Noise had nothing to do with their pre-conceived opinion of our sport.

My sled has the quieter version of "The Thing" can and is only mildly louder and throatier than stock.
I LOVE the way it sounds and is by no means obnoxious,
I'm an old guy who still loves to get out and play on high horsepower machines and I have an appreciation for a well tuned racy sound from my motor whether it's my Chevelle or my sled.
My wife's sled sounds like a sewing machine...Good for her, but not for me.

Keep them quiet in the staging areas and while passing the skiers...idle speed is quiet and won't make us all look like a pack of crazed lunatics out to destroy the tiny woodland creatures.

Use your heads for Christ sake.

Perfectly said.

mountainhorse · Oct 11, 2009

Originally Posted by Adrenaline Revolution: Use your heads for Christ sake.

Yamahamod said:
Perfectly said.

I agree with Yamahamod and Adrenaline Revolution... Use OUR heads!!

LPIdaho · Oct 11, 2009

This is really a bit of a respect here.
Regardless of what you run or how you feel about this Loud Exhausts can only hurt our sport under no logic could they possibly help and I think that's a bit of the point.
I think trying to keep your noise pollution down is a way to show some respect to nature.

ace59 · Oct 11, 2009

I agree that most people I introduce to the sport DO love the experience. But that's like preaching to the choir. It's the general public and those in government who vote on closure bills that are the concern. The less ammo they have the better. I live in a very environmentally....polarized

community who have zero tolerance for anything in the mountains other than a pair of boots. These are serious times folks. Please get active writing letters to your government officials and contributing whatever you can to organizations like Blue Ribbon and SAWS. Heck, if they knew I was also a hunter, well.....

Ollie · Oct 11, 2009

My whole point about loud is simple.
Yes the envirozealots won't stop.
They will continue to try and shut us down.

So why are we handing them a great weapon to use against us?

you will always be able to find examples of greenies being stupid.
But just as they use one idiot to make us all look bad, those examples are single incidents that arn't indictative of the pubic as a whole.
Super loud sleds are a pretty basic example that can and is used to convince the general public that we are bad for the enviroment.

Loud Exhaust On Snowmobiles... Is there a place for this anymore?

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