Wet Rods #830 Dry

Deep Powder Guy · Jun 27, 2014

Thinking about adding a 174 with a 3.0 :face-icon-small-hap

Why isn't Yamaha delivering there own supercharger technology into there sleds like they have in there 250 hp FZS boats ?

DPG

stingray719 · Jun 28, 2014

Deep Powder Guy said:
Thinking about adding a 174 with a 3.0 :face-icon-small-hap

Why isn't Yamaha delivering there own supercharger technology into there sleds like they have in there 250 hp FZS boats ?

DPG

Because they are actually selling boats? :biggrin1:

Mountaintech · Jun 29, 2014

Deep Powder Guy said:
Thinking about adding a 174 with a 3.0 :face-icon-small-hap

Why isn't Yamaha delivering there own supercharger technology into there sleds like they have in there 250 hp FZS boats ?

DPG

A very good question. Obviously the snowmobile division operates in their own little world. IMO it is in real decline now that they are using a competitor's chassis for their flagship sled. Not sure if their is any real hope on the horizon. I do know one thing.....you can't tell the Japanese how to build something. Unless you do it in a way that makes them think it was their idea in the first place.

BigFish BC · Jun 30, 2014

my guess is you know that motor is a beast with the super on it,like 200lbs + if i remember right.

Deep Powder Guy · Jun 30, 2014

Mountaintech said:
A very good question. Obviously the snowmobile division operates in their own little world. IMO it is in real decline now that they are using a competitor's chassis for their flagship sled. Not sure if their is any real hope on the horizon. I do know one thing.....you can't tell the Japanese how to build something. Unless you do it in a way that makes them think it was their idea in the first place.

I agree imagine if Suzuki built YZ250's

LoudHandle · Jun 30, 2014

Since you asked weight, I'm curious what the Kawi supercharged ski engine weighs as well. The one that now pushes about 350 HP, last year was 330, year before 300, 290, 280, etc. If it were a decent HP / pound ratio a few of us at work want to weld up a few aluminum hulls for some white water running and just messing around in some otherwise un-navigable rivers and streams. Essentially climb waterfalls and such.

M5- · Jul 1, 2014

I just don't think they believe there is any money in it. It cant be a liability issue if they are building these watercraft and how many people kill themselves on R1's and R6's every year. Its got to be all about the money.

M5

Mountaintech · Jul 1, 2014

M5- said:
I just don't think they believe there is any money in it. It cant be a liability issue if they are building these watercraft and how many people kill themselves on R1's and R6's every year. Its got to be all about the money.

M5

I would agree with that. With that being said, the end may be near.

stingray719 · Jul 1, 2014

Mountaintech said:
I would agree with that. With that being said, the end may be near.

Yeah Yamaha dealers are selling new sleds for the first time in years, my local dealer is even pre selling 2015 MTX Vipers....so of course selling more units mean they must close. You really run a business with that logic?

EDIT:

I went to your site and I see the new MTX Viper does not need the products you sell so I can see why you are unhappy. BUT, the rest of us are happy the MTX comes ready to go out of the box (except maybe skis).

cacsrx1 · Jul 1, 2014

There is a difference between selling a sled vs whoreing out an outdated powerplant.

stingray719 · Jul 1, 2014

cacsrx1 said:
There is a difference between selling a sled vs whoreing out an outdated powerplant.

The Chinese are still selling Honda 50cc engines first sold in the early 60's, and how many decades was the Chevrolet small block sold in?

What was your point again?

EDIT:

WAIT! I see your point, you snow checked a sled that cannot compete with a boosted Viper. Ok, now I get it please do go on with your rant.

cacsrx1 · Jul 1, 2014

stingray719 said:
The Chinese are still selling Honda 50cc engines first sold in the early 60's, and how many decades was the Chevrolet small block sold in?

What was your point again?

EDIT:

WAIT! I see your point, you snow checked a sled that cannot compete with a boosted Viper. Ok, now I get it please do go on with your rant.

Let me know when Chevrolet starts selling LS motors to Ford to put in the Mustang.

EDIT:

Wait! We all have heard now at least 100,000 times that a Viper with your magnificent spring change and a hole drilled in the rail will destroy every single sled out there so I wont go there. Please continue to post video of mountain sleds drag racing down the trail and sled burnouts on dry pavement as this shows true tuning accomplishments.

Deep Powder Guy · Jul 1, 2014

I'm struggling why Yamaha had to out source anything when they could do everything in house and under the Yamaha label. Lets not forget when it comes to deep pockets Yamaha carries a lot of weight .

Yamaha could have easily built an SC for the R1 and even there smaller 3 banger added a warranty and sold sleds it's not rocket science ...After all I'm sure there waverunner sales aren't exactly Yamaha's bread & butter profits either. Manufacturing is all about addressing consumer demand "in the moment"' weather it's purple, pink ,yellow or blue.... Yamaha's sled division management team messed up or maybe just got spooked by Clinton/Gore threats and born was RX1 four banger and than the Vector 3 banger mountain sleds. Which is sad because Yammi has Big $$$$ and has tremendous manufacturing strength to build anything.

FZS Wave runner 1800 CC 250 HP Supercharger. FAST :face-icon-small-hap....I'm sure the MTX will be a great sled but the complaint about weight will never change when compared to the other 3 brands.

DPG

stingray719 · Jul 1, 2014

cacsrx1 said:
Let me know when Chevrolet starts selling LS motors to Ford to put in the Mustang.

EDIT:

Wait! We all have heard now at least 100,000 times that a Viper with your magnificent spring change and a hole drilled in the rail will destroy every single sled out there so I wont go there. Please continue to post video of mountain sleds drag racing down the trail and sled burnouts on dry pavement as this shows true tuning accomplishments.

Will this help? http://cs.amsnow.com/sno/b/news/archive/2014/03/27/yamaha-sr-viper-m-tx-wins-improved-stock-700-at-jackson-hole.aspx

You seem a little upset so I won't poke fun at your new Ski Doo, enjoy it half as much as I do my Proclimb chassis and all is well.

stingray719 · Jul 1, 2014

cacsrx1 said:
Let me know when Chevrolet starts selling LS motors to Ford to put in the Mustang.

EDIT:

Wait! We all have heard now at least 100,000 times that a Viper with your magnificent spring change and a hole drilled in the rail will destroy every single sled out there so I wont go there. Please continue to post video of mountain sleds drag racing down the trail and sled burnouts on dry pavement as this shows true tuning accomplishments.

Funny you mention that, Yamaha designed the engine for the Ford Taurus SHO.

"The Ford SHO V8 engine (Super High Output) was designed and built by Ford Motor Company in conjunction with Yamaha Motor Corporation for use in the 1996 Ford Taurus SHO. It was based on the successful Ford Duratec engine rather than its predecessor, the compact Ford SHO V6 engine developed by Yamaha for the 1989 Taurus SHO. The engine was retired in 1999 when production of the third-generation Taurus SHO ended."

cacsrx1 · Jul 1, 2014

I don't think Ford is a direct competitor to Yamaha....

Mountaintech · Jul 2, 2014

stingray719 said:
Yeah Yamaha dealers are selling new sleds for the first time in years, my local dealer is even pre selling 2015 MTX Vipers....so of course selling more units mean they must close. You really run a business with that logic?

EDIT:

I went to your site and I see the new MTX Viper does not need the products you sell so I can see why you are unhappy. BUT, the rest of us are happy the MTX comes ready to go out of the box (except maybe skis).

I may end up making products for the Viper (already have some in mind), but I am not unhappy that the Nytro has ended production. Hell, I build great parts for a sled that lasted 7 model years....unheard of in this day and age. My point was, and continues to be that, as a manufacturer to start supplying engines to a direct competitor.....and also use their chassis for their "new" model, is not a good sign. We also know that Yamaha can build what everyone wants, but chooses not to. The Yamaha dealer here did not sell a single Viper last season.

LoudHandle · Jul 2, 2014

Mountaintech said:
.…. My point was, and continues to be that, as a manufacturer to start supplying engines to a direct competitor.....and also use their chassis for their "new" model, is not a good sign. ….

I see the Yami-Cat arrangement no different than the Kawi-Suzuki arrangement that has served both well for 10 years plus or minus. Granted Kawi made better stuff than Suzuki in certain displacement classes and Suzuki had an advantage in others so in that regard it definitely made sense for them to license each other's products and share their strengths.

The Cat has a decent chassis, not my choice but decent, Yami makes a better engine than the Suki they have been utilizing. I see it as a win-win for the consumer who choses to run this sled. Those that would not consider this sled likely would not have considered a similar sled from either manufacture prior to the partnership either.

Just my random thoughts on the subject.

stingray719 · Jul 2, 2014

Mountaintech said:
I may end up making products for the Viper (already have some in mind), but I am not unhappy that the Nytro has ended production. Hell, I build great parts for a sled that lasted 7 model years....unheard of in this day and age. My point was, and continues to be that, as a manufacturer to start supplying engines to a direct competitor.....and also use their chassis for their "new" model, is not a good sign. We also know that Yamaha can build what everyone wants, but chooses not to. The Yamaha dealer here did not sell a single Viper last season.

You should already know this and I posted it in another post on this forum.

And you probably missed my post from last year but Yamahas heyday was the SRX back in the 70's which came from thier partnership with SNO JET. Quick history lesson, Yamaha sold engines to SNO JET and the Thunderjet won everything to win in 1973, never done before or since. Next year production limits forced them out of racing and eventualy meant there demise. Big surprise Yamaha comes out with a thunderjet clone and the SRX is born. We could only hope that history is repeating itself with Cat/Yamaha venture and Yamaha is reverse engineering the competitions secrets.

05900 · Jul 2, 2014

stingray719 said:
Funny you mention that, Yamaha designed the engine for the Ford Taurus SHO.

"The Ford SHO V8 engine (Super High Output) was designed and built by Ford Motor Company in conjunction with Yamaha Motor Corporation for use in the 1996 Ford Taurus SHO. It was based on the successful Ford Duratec engine rather than its predecessor, the compact Ford SHO V6 engine developed by Yamaha for the 1989 Taurus SHO. The engine was retired in 1999 when production of the third-generation Taurus SHO ended."

As much as it makes sense...that is not a great achievement on Yamaha's part. Those models never accounted for much of anything.

Wet Rods #830 Dry

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Embrace the BRAAAAAAP!

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