Should I Ditch the Heavy OEM Battery and get a Lightweight Lithium??? ??

M5- · Oct 6, 2011

I run the 7s size but I'm running an Oddessy battery which is spendy but has yet to fail me. We put a cheapo 7s in my sons Apex and it needed to be boosted every day so if you buy a really good quality 7 you'll be fine. I've got friends running the Yusa 7 and they work well. For sure no issues with a good 10S I wouldn't even hesitate to change to that battery.

M5

justinkredible56 · Oct 6, 2011

http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=224477323&sellerid=34752499

Kinda wanna try one of these!

christopher · Oct 6, 2011

AKSNOWRIDER said:
this 12 cell should do it easily...and it only weighs 2.5 pds....

http://www.stuntsteel.com/ballistic-battery.html

WOW!
What a battery!!

2.5lbs & 360 Cold Cranking Amps.

Feature 8 <table style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; font-size: 12px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); " cellpadding="5"><tbody><tr><td style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; " valign="top" width="60%">12 Cell Model

Dimensions 113MM (L) x 87MM (W) x 100MM (H)
Weight 1045 grams, 2lb 5oz
Voltage (Charged) 13.6V
Amperage 6.9Ah
Cold Cranking Amps 360A pulse
Operating Environment -30°C (-22°F) to 60°C (140°F)
12 Cell EVO 2 (101-005) - $189.99

</td><td style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; " valign="top" width="215">

</td></tr><tr valign="top"><td colspan="2" style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; ">The 12 Cell EVO 2 model is the work horse of our line up.
This is the battery you need for your built 1000cc and up four cylinder or your big cruiser.
This battery puts out as much power as some of the biggest lead acid batteries on the market but weighs as much as 11lbs lighter!
The stock battery on a Harley weighs 12.4lbs while the Ballistic 12 Cell weighs less than 2.5lbs.
That’s a 10 lbs saving for less than $190 dollars!
The 12 Cell EVO 2 is housed in a custom made proprietary ABS case with hard mounted brass terminals so installation is direct replacement with the stock battery.
</td></tr></tbody></table>

ruffryder · Oct 6, 2011

I bought a Scorpion 10s from batterystuff.com

http://www.batterystuff.com/powersports-batteries/sYTZ10S.html

It has worked good so far. Though I haven't started it up in a while...

christopher · Oct 6, 2011

justinkredible56 said:
http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=224477323&sellerid=34752499

Kinda wanna try one of these!

Ya, this could be an AWESOME solution.
not cheap, but a KILLER solution.

No that I just added +20lbs in Supercharger, it would be very nice to drop 8lbs somewhere else!

Need to see if it FITS.

christopher · Oct 6, 2011

YTL20L-BS
175mm x 87mm x 155mm
11.2lbs

Balistic 12 cell
113MM (L) x 87MM (W) x 100MM (H)
2.5lbs

Weight savings = -8lbs 13 ounces

Whats interesting is that EVO is suggesting the 16cell battery be used for the Yamaha Nytro on their website.

http://www.ballisticparts.com/tech/batteryApplication.php

<table cellpadding="5"><tbody><tr><td style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; " valign="top" width="60%">16 Cell EVO2 Battery

Dimensions: 112MM (L) x 112MM (W) x 103MM (H)
Positive Terminal Location: Right
Weight: 1350 grams (3 lb)
Voltage (Charged): 13.6V
Amperage: 28 Pbeq A/H
Cold Cranking Amps: 500 CCA
Operating Environment: -18°C (0°F) to 60°C (140°F)
Typical Applications: Large Harleys, 1500cc and up 4 cylinders.
16 Cell EVO2 (100-013) - $269.99
</td><td style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; " valign="top" width="215">

</td></tr><tr valign="top"><td colspan="2" style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; ">The 16 Cell EVO2 is the biggest powersports battery we make with 500CCA and 28 Pbeq AHs at only 3lbs of weight. The 16 Cell is a direct replacement of the Yuasa YTX30L-BS, GYZ-20HL, and YTX24HL-BS. Typical applications are large touring bikes, ATVs, Watercraft, built sport bikes, and heavily modified Harleys.
</td></tr></tbody></table>

M5- · Oct 6, 2011

Years ago a bunch of guys were raving about the super light weight Batcap or whatever it was called at the time like in 05. Basically they are just a giant capacitor which allows them to have great stats on paper but they don't have any reserve at all, like zero. I believe they are actually designed for big a$$ car stereos etc. Anyways from a historical point of view I wouldn't touch one of those with somebody elses 10 foot pole, there's a reason why good batteries are heavy.

M5

AKSNOWRIDER · Oct 6, 2011

M5- said:
Years ago a bunch of guys were raving about the super light weight Batcap or whatever it was called at the time like in 05. Basically they are just a giant capacitor which allows them to have great stats on paper but they don't have any reserve at all, like zero. I believe they are actually designed for big a$$ car stereos etc. Anyways from a historical point of view I wouldn't touch one of those with somebody elses 10 foot pole, there's a reason why good batteries are heavy.

M5

ummm....these are lithium ion batteries...dont see an issue with them...

christopher · Oct 6, 2011

M5- said:
Years ago a bunch of guys were raving about the super light weight Batcap or whatever it was called at the time like in 05. Basically they are just a giant capacitor which allows them to have great stats on paper but they don't have any reserve at all, like zero. I believe they are actually designed for big a$$ car stereos etc. Anyways from a historical point of view I wouldn't touch one of those with somebody elses 10 foot pole, there's a reason why good batteries are heavy.

M5

This battery is using LITHIUM-ION Technology.
Right out of your laptop computer.

There is nothing Smoke & Mirrors about what these guys are doing.

VERY EFFECTIVE batter composition.
VERY LIGHTWEIGHT.

BUT also VERY PRICEY.

Lithium-ion batteries are common in consumer electronics. They are one of the most popular types of rechargeable battery for portable electronics, with one of the best energy densities, no memory effect, and a slow loss of charge when not in use. Beyond consumer electronics, LIBs are also growing in popularity for military, electric vehicle, and aerospace applications.<sup id="cite_ref-6" class="reference">[7]</sup> Research is yielding a stream of improvements to traditional LIB technology, focusing on energy density, durability, cost, and intrinsic safety.
As of 2011, lithium-ion batteries account for 67% of all portable secondary battery sales in Japan.<sup id="cite_ref-7" class="reference">[8]</sup>

Advantages

Wide variety of shapes and sizes efficiently fitting the devices they power.
Much lighter than other energy-equivalent secondary batteries.<sup id="cite_ref-winter_43-0" class="reference">[44]</sup>
High open circuit voltage in comparison to aqueous batteries (such as lead acid, nickel-metal hydride and nickel-cadmium).<sup id="cite_ref-44" class="reference">[45]</sup> This is beneficial because it increases the amount of power that can be transferred at a lower current.
No memory effect.
Self-discharge rate of approximately 5-10% per month, compared to over 30% per month in common nickel metal hydride batteries, approximately 1.25% per month for Low Self-Discharge NiMH batteries and 10% per month in nickel-cadmium batteries.<sup id="cite_ref-ReferenceA_45-0" class="reference">[46]</sup> According to one manufacturer, lithium-ion cells (and, accordingly, "dumb" lithium-ion batteries) do not have any self-discharge in the usual meaning of this word.<sup id="cite_ref-Gold_Peak_33-1" class="reference">[34]</sup> What looks like a self-discharge in these batteries is a permanent loss of capacity (see Disadvantages). On the other hand, "smart" lithium-ion batteries do self-discharge, due to the drain of the built-in voltage monitoring circuit.
Components are environmentally safe as there is no free lithium metal.<sup class="Template-Fact" style="white-space:nowrap;">[citation needed]</sup>

Disadvantages

Cell life

Charging forms deposits inside the electrolyte that inhibit ion transport. Over time, the cell's capacity diminishes. The increase in internal resistance reduces the cell's ability to deliver current. This problem is more pronounced in high-current applications. The decrease means that older batteries do not charge as much as new ones (charging time required decreases proportionally).
High charge levels and elevated temperatures (whether from charging or ambient air) hasten capacity loss.<sup id="cite_ref-46" class="reference">[47]</sup><sup id="cite_ref-J._Brodd.2C_Chem_2004_47-0" class="reference">[48]</sup> Charging heat is caused by the carbon anode (typically replaced with lithium titanate which drastically reduces damage from charging, including expansion and other factors).<sup id="cite_ref-48" class="reference">[49]</sup>
A Standard (Cobalt) Li-ion cell that is full most of the time at 25 °C (77 °F) irreversibly loses approximately 20% capacity per year. Poor ventilation may increase temperatures, further shortening battery life. Loss rates vary by temperature: 6% loss at 0 °C (32 °F), 20% at 25 °C (77 °F), and 35% at 40 °C (104 °F). When stored at 40%–60% charge level, the capacity loss is reduced to 2%, 4%, and 15%, respectively.<sup id="cite_ref-battery-university_com-partone-19_49-0" class="reference">[50]</sup><sup class="Template-Fact" style="white-space:nowrap;">[citation needed]</sup> In contrast, the calendar life of LiFePO<sub>4</sub> cells is not affected by being kept at a high state of charge.<sup id="cite_ref-50" class="reference">[51]</sup>

xtrememotorworks · Oct 6, 2011

christopher said:
YTL20L-BS
175mm x 87mm x 155mm
11.2lbs

Balistic 12 cell
113MM (L) x 87MM (W) x 100MM (H)
2.5lbs

Weight savings = -8lbs 13 ounces

Whats interesting is that EVO is suggesting the 16cell battery be used for the Yamaha Nytro on their website.

http://www.ballisticparts.com/tech/batteryApplication.php

<table cellpadding="5"><tbody><tr><td style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; " valign="top" width="60%">16 Cell EVO2 Battery

Dimensions: 112MM (L) x 112MM (W) x 103MM (H)
Positive Terminal Location: Right
Weight: 1350 grams (3 lb)
Voltage (Charged): 13.6V
Amperage: 28 Pbeq A/H
Cold Cranking Amps: 500 CCA
Operating Environment: -18°C (0°F) to 60°C (140°F)
Typical Applications: Large Harleys, 1500cc and up 4 cylinders.
16 Cell EVO2 (100-013) - $269.99
</td><td style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; " valign="top" width="215">

</td></tr><tr valign="top"><td colspan="2" style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif; ">The 16 Cell EVO2 is the biggest powersports battery we make with 500CCA and 28 Pbeq AHs at only 3lbs of weight. The 16 Cell is a direct replacement of the Yuasa YTX30L-BS, GYZ-20HL, and YTX24HL-BS. Typical applications are large touring bikes, ATVs, Watercraft, built sport bikes, and heavily modified Harleys.
</td></tr></tbody></table>

We are going to run theses in our sleds /quads, did a few for customers and have been very happy. Guess time will tell on the snow.

justinkredible56 · Oct 6, 2011

Where the 16 cell batter is used for Harley's and 1500cc bullet bikes. I think you can get away with the 12 cell. Especially because lithium ion performs better in cold weather than traditional batteries.

christopher · Oct 6, 2011

xtrememotorworks said:
We are going to run theses in our sleds /quads, did a few for customers and have been very happy. Guess time will tell on the snow.

Excellent.
The more real world user feedback we can get the BETTER.

At this point I think I will likely try one as well myself.
Just trying to figure out WHY the company is suggesting the 16 cell over the 12 cell given that the 12 "seems" to have MORE than enough power.

Then its time to go find the absolute best possible deal out there!!

MTdream · Oct 6, 2011

christopher said:
OK Master.

SCHOOL ME! :face-icon-small-hap

Tell of your experience and WHY I have nothing to fear from dumping the big heavy OEM battery and downsizing to one of the smaller, lighter, sexier batteries.

Well....

First your fear was being stranded...that is easily solved IF it happened with a set of jumpers that you can hook up to another sleds Headlight....you can get the jumpers from MPI... Link Here...

Your second worry was essentially strength of the battery...besides the audience who has chimed in wit dozens of examples of use and no issue...

Your only real issue is one of two things...

Starting the sled first thing in the morning...that is when the battery is at its weakest charge level...During riding, your continually charging it, and generally dont let it sit (de-charging) for enough period to cause an issue...Not to mention that if it is an issue at the truck, you have lots of solutions...
Leaving key on, and decharging while in the backcountry...While this is a potential issue, it is really only an issue when the weater is extremely cold...and well...if it is -20 I am personally not riding...However, worst case, you can jump start it via above...

Last, and possibly most importantly...You can install the lighter battery (personally, went with the YTZ 10s), and keep the bigger battery in your trailer (I did) and if there is an issue, on a particularly cold day, takes 10 minutes worst case to swap batteries...

However, for the $/lbs., there is no better weight saving thing you can do for the sled...If your nervous, ok...but there is no logical reason that your sled needs the a/hr or the CCA level that Yamaha has installed on this sled...remember, it is Yamaha...and for the same logic your using to change drop brackets, suspension, and even have the ability to add boost, you can easily, and readily reduce the battery "power" needed...it is FAR over engineered...

M5- · Oct 6, 2011

Well go for it and let us know I honestly hope they are the bomb but for 1/2 the $$ and a couple of extra lbs I'll be sticking with what has worked for me for the past 7 years. I've been down the whole ultimate lightweght road before and IMO within reason the whole weight thing is a bit over rated. There's good weight (reverse, good battery) and bad weight (drop brackets, suspension. giant a$$ exhaust system etc) do the major stuff then just ride it, don't worry about every ounce it just doesn't make any difference lets face it a good crap in the morning must weigh at least a pound.

M5.

christopher · Oct 6, 2011

I Love SnoWest.
We have such an incredible wealth of information with our members here!

I had never come across this before!

<table border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" height="70" width="24%"><tbody><tr><td colspan="4" height="29" width="200%">4 STROKE CHARGING CABLE
http://www.mountainperformance.com/yamaha_specialty_tools.htm

</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="42" width="317%">This custom built cable is designed to jump charge any Yamaha 4-Stroke battery from any snowmobile. Most snowmobiles have an AC electrical system, making it impossible to directly connect to the RX-1. Our cable has a built in power converter so it plugs into any sleds head light (AC or DC). Don't be caught without one!</td> <td style="margin-left: 0; margin-right: 0; padding-left: 0; padding-right: 0" colspan="2" align="left" height="42" width="35%">

Click for Larger Image

</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="border-left-style: solid; border-left-width: 2; border-top-style: solid; border-top-width: 2; margin: 0" colspan="3" height="24" nowrap="nowrap" width="335%">Charger</td> <td style="border-left-style: solid; border-left-width: 2; border-right-style: solid; border-right-width: 2; border-top-style: solid; border-top-width: 2; margin: 0" align="center" height="24" nowrap="nowrap" width="17%">US-Dollars</td> </tr> <tr> <td style="border-left-style: solid; border-left-width: 2; border-top-style: solid; border-top-width: 2; border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-width: 2; margin: 0" height="26" nowrap="nowrap" width="102%"> mbt-0400</td> <td style="border-left-style: solid; border-left-width: 2; border-top-style: solid; border-top-width: 2; border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-width: 2; margin: 0" colspan="2" height="26" nowrap="nowrap" width="233%"> Universal Charging Cable </td> <td style="border-style: solid; border-width: 2; margin: 0" align="center" height="26" nowrap="nowrap" width="17%">$49.95</td></tr></tbody></table>

kinger9 · Oct 6, 2011

I have used the odessy PC545 for the last 4 years on my stage 1 SC apex. I have NEVER put a charger on it. It has started in any condition including a -32 degree F day one year on a bagger trip. (the sled hated it but the battery didn't mind LOL)

There are mixed reviews on this odessy battery some say they go through them like water others like me say no issue. I am thrilled with it and thrilled I never have to charge it. I do start the sled about 4 times in the summer months just for my sanity and to keep everything flowing and charged.

I will buy the same battery again if this one ever does decide to go bad.

SNAFU · Oct 6, 2011

I bought a YUASA 7S 3 years ago when the sled was brand new. I was on the weight loss kick at the time. My buddy has a 10S. We hauled our sleds on an open trailer at -21C, and neither of our sleds wouldn't start. After the sleds were boosted, they started fine all day and have ever since. This is the only problem I have ever had. If the sled is in an enclosed trailer, then I wouldn't even worry about it. I do carry a set of small booster cables that I made up. This is for back-up and I would carry them even if I had the larger stock battery.

christopher · Oct 6, 2011

kinger9 said:
I have used the odessy PC545 for the last 4 years on my stage 1 SC apex. I have NEVER put a charger on it.

PC 545 Specs:

545 cranking amps for 5 seconds
495 cranking amps for 10 seconds
420 cranking amps for 20 seconds
Short circuit current over 1200A
18 minute reserve capacity with 25amp load
Female brass terminal w/M6 SS bolt
Length 6 7/8"
Width 3 1/4"
Height 5 1/8"
Weight 11.7 lbs

Odyssey design:

2 year full warranty
Rugged Drycell sealed design
Military grade
Vibration resistant
60% more starting power
Deep discharge reserve power
2 year storage life
8-12 year design life
Can be mounted flat or upright

<table align="center" border="0" cellpadding="5" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td valign="top">$137.31 plus free ground shipping anywhere is the US.

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kinger9 · Oct 7, 2011

Hmm the nytro must have a light weight battery in it from the factory (11lb range). On my apex it cut like 10lbs the stocker is a TANK (20+ lbs).

christopher · Oct 7, 2011

I never put mine on the scale to verify it.
Those were the weights listed on the YUSA company website??

Should I Ditch the Heavy OEM Battery and get a Lightweight Lithium??? ??

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