550 fan Jetting and burn-down issues....

Tom400CFI · Mar 3, 2009

Frostbit said:
If the piston failure can be attributed to the oil pump, I wonder if Tom would be willing to take one or two of his rental sleds and set them up for pre-mix. I know it would be a pain to monitor, but it might be a step in making a firm diagnosis.

We tried that in a couple sleds last year. Didn't seem to make a difference. They blew up too.

I think, since I've seen air collect in the oil pump bleed, that the "oil pump issue" COULD affect SOME of our sleds. But I think that MOST of our sleds' issues have been heat/clearance/jetting related.

I think now to make a long lasting unit, you need to cover everything;
Good build w/proper clearance w/a forged piston
Proper jetting (ALL throttle settings)
Oil pump bleeder (still don't know WHY)
Cold air ducting
...and even with all that, I highly doubt it will last like the old 488's did.

Tom400CFI · Mar 3, 2009

gogglefurnace said:
That fuel boiling in the lines theory is crap. For one any percolation if there was any would get to the bowl and dissappear out the vent.

EXACTLY!! Right on, Goggle.

gogglefurnace said:
Polaris is gonna EAT POO on this one.

Don't know about that. So far, Poo has done a great job of "marketing" the blame/cause to be everyone else's fault -customer, oil, temps, "boil gas" now?....it's pathetic.

gogglefurnace · Mar 3, 2009

.By EAT POO, i meant in the long run. We will pay in the short term, POO will pay in the long. Not all will jump ship, but plenty will.

mccbry · Mar 3, 2009

I talked to my dealer the other day about the 550's and he did not want to say to much about them. He said he has not seen to many problems with them,but he did say the 09's have the oil pump bleeder installed on them.I looked on the POO web site and see that they no longer make the 700's, but still have the 550 trail for 2010.

Reaper591 · Mar 4, 2009

So I am looking at a used 2003 SuperSport 550 fan w/ 1,100 miles. Does this year have the same issues as all the newer ones or does it pre-date the time where things started going bad?

Thanks

gogglefurnace · Mar 4, 2009

Reaper591 said:
So I am looking at a used 2003 SuperSport 550 fan w/ 1,100 miles. Does this year have the same issues as all the newer ones or does it pre-date the time where things started going bad?

Thanks

Look back through this thread. 03 is edge. this is the start for tom and his probs. does the edge hood provide proper cooling? does this sled have exhaust shielding? will you ride it hard or be a cruiser? what needle jet does it have? all things to consider.

tuney443 · Mar 4, 2009

My dealer just got back to me today.Polaris is ''offering'' me all OEM parts that burned up except the bad cylinder,plus the new improved oil pump with the venting and the improved ducting on the hood.They want that bad cylinder reused,either honed or most likely bored,and on me.All the labor will be on me.I threw out to the dealer what they would do as a credit then if I decide to want the nicasil complete upgrade kit.It seems to me that since the factory is offering that ''new and improved'' oil pump,that is an admission of guilt,so to speak,it's basically admitting they screwed up,lots of engines burned up partly because of that and they should make good on their product.What do you guys think? I'm also at 50-50 with myself if I even want to keep this sled no matter what is done to it.

Reaper591 · Mar 4, 2009

gogglefurnace said:
Look back through this thread. 03 is edge. this is the start for tom and his probs. does the edge hood provide proper cooling? does this sled have exhaust shielding? will you ride it hard or be a cruiser? what needle jet does it have? all things to consider.

Well I am fairly new to polaris sleds and did not realize that 03 was the start of the "edge". What I did see as I went through the thread was alot of 04-07 sleds that were burning up, and that the "so called" polaris team fix was listed for the 04-05 models. So that was why I was curious if the 03's had the same issues.

Tom400CFI · Mar 4, 2009

What Goggle Furnace said.

Although the 550 motor was NEVER as good as it's predecessor, engine life and reliability dropped dramatically when the engine was carried over from the Gen II platform, to the "Edge" platform. There is a huge correlation (for us) with terrible reliability and newer sleds. Oddly, even after the Edge 550 platform was introduced, reliability has gone down, as time has moved forward, for us, up until '08. For '09 (this year), we bought Yamaha VKPro's.

-Tom

ivar · Mar 6, 2009

Here's "one angry woman" going after Polaris:
http://www.hardcoresledder.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=356737

gogglefurnace · Mar 17, 2009

What did you do TOM, go POOSTAL?

Tom400CFI · Mar 18, 2009

LOL. Good'n!

No, no real up dates. All of our .007"/Wiseco motors are still running fine.

I had a "polaris" motor drop on ME yesterday, for once I was the one riding it. Going down a hill for about 1 minute straight, slowed to a stop to wait for a fellow staff member, let it idle for about 10 seconds, then shut it off. After about 15 seconds, other guy was coming so I hit the key to start it, and it was seized. Sweet.

I put in my capital requests for next year; I'm asking for 30 Yamahas.

Tom400CFI · Mar 19, 2009

Well, I guess that I have another update, or question; We've got another machine in the shop that is exhibiting the same symptoms as the one in the FIRST POST of this thread, specifically, this part;

Tom400CFI said:
2. Jetting. I started with 240's to be safe. WOT, for over a minute, cut it off clean and pulled plugs. The color change on the ground electrode was basically at the weld, and there was essentially NO piston wash. I went up to 260's and ran the same test. Results? Same. (!) WTF is going on here?? Floats are set to spec, new fuel filter and fuel lines, etc. I'm baffled. Also, I noticed that UNLIKE the old Gen II chassis sleds w/the 550's, these Edge machines see a HUGE...HUGE change to A/F ratio when run with and without the vent tubes hooked to the air boxes. (?)

In the case of the machine we're dealing with NOW, the air box DOESN'T seem to make any difference! But we started with 220 mains (this is s machine that hasn't been touched yet this year) and have gone up to 280's. (!) The piston wash hasn't changed one bit; just a SLIVER of wash on each piston. How can this thing be so impervious to jet changes??

Tom400CFI · Mar 20, 2009

Anyone? Has anyone seen this where radical jetting changes result in little to no wash change?

xcr700 · Mar 21, 2009

Duct/Scoop mockup

Ok so I was clearing out some boxes from the Mrs latest online shopping spree and was looking at my 550 and got this crazy idea to mock up a duct based on Toms concept.

Well clearly it was a hack-job, but guess what, theres plenty of room under there for a really generous scoop/duct and I think it could be done and be quite effective at improving cooling.

Not sure when I’ll get around to trying to turn this into a real duct but I’m gonna give it a try,,,

Any thoughts about how and what to form one from???

I think the easy way would be sheet metal, but my preference would be plastic.

I thought about doing another mock up from old styrofoam to make a mold, then make the actual scoop/duct from mix it yourself plastic or fiberglass.

I suppose I could always cut up an old tote bucket and hit it with a heat gun to shape it. I would either have to learn plastic welding, or just pop-rivet it or screw it together.

So many options,,, and only 8 month till the 09/10 riding season,,,

Too bad Polaris couldn’t build something like this for us in the first place,,,

GH

Tom400CFI · Mar 21, 2009

Wow....I think that looks pretty tight! Better than the one I made looks. :/

I would use what you made to lay up some fiberglass on...then tear the card board out of it and trim/smooth, sand it glue some tin foil to the muffler side, and voila! I like that Cold air "kit".

Can anyone give me ideas about why I'm having the jetting issues that I'm having above?

Tom400CFI · Mar 25, 2009

Back up top. Anyone able to expalin why a carb/engine is completely un responsive to massive jetting changes....?

akwolfman · Mar 25, 2009

Wonder if an 12v electric fan would help with cooling.
Same on some flatside carbs.
Also wonder if the vibrations are doing anything to the carbs and engine.
The engine sure shakes alot more than the old 488.

gogglefurnace · Mar 25, 2009

Tom, who the hell knows. It doesn't make mechanical sense. I know accs might modify some of the jetting changes, but that doesn't make sense either because accs modifys barometric pressure in the bowls. Are the engines you do the drastic main jet change in, in a stage of failure that contribute to the lack of jetting response? Can reeds minimize a jetting change, like you are seeing? How about ring blow by?

Golsovia · Mar 26, 2009

Reaper591 said:
So I am looking at a used 2003 SuperSport 550 fan w/ 1,100 miles. Does this year have the same issues as all the newer ones or does it pre-date the time where things started going bad?

Thanks

Even the '01 SS was Edge so the '03 will be similar. FWIW, my '01 Supersport has close to 9 thou - and it has been opened three times, so just over 2000 per piston exchange.

And this engine had trouble right from the '99 start of things. Back then, no one wanted to believe it so it didn't show up on a lot of forums. However, in Alaska where these machines pull sleds much of the time and see many miles in a season, it happened right from the start.

I sure don't trust the early 550s anymore than later ones. In fact, the recent years seem to fail in smaller percentages here in Alaska than did the early versions. (A local IQ did quit though. I guess we'll see if the warranty is better than 3 months or 1000 miles!)

550 fan Jetting and burn-down issues....

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