2 strokes complete standalone ecu for t-m8 and t-m1000

harf69 · Jan 9, 2010

i get that but if your just creating a ecu with a map that wont account for boost with the posibility of cooking the motor if the o2 goes down?if i understand this correctly?then what is the difference between that and a piggyback system they are both doing the same thing they are just usin g different paths to get there but as an example a 03 ford ranger computer will learn on the fly it takes 20-25 miles for the ecu to set the parameters i consider that a standalone system it will learn through the entire rpm range.im not knocking it i just dont see why its better when from what i read it wont control under boost

supraturbo · Jan 10, 2010

hatchers said:
IMO, i would pop the clutch on too much hype......get it on the snow, in several sleds, get 500 or more real mtn miles

would like to inform you we have over 3500 miles done on the engine dyno already. the sled has been on the snow for 3 weeks now and ripping asses all over!! all electrical is now back to ecu manufacturer so they can add a few more options to oue ecu board.

supraturbo · Jan 10, 2010

harf69 said:
i get that but if your just creating a ecu with a map that wont account for boost with the posibility of cooking the motor if the o2 goes down?if i understand this correctly?then what is the difference between that and a piggyback system they are both doing the same thing they are just usin g different paths to get there but as an example a 03 ford ranger computer will learn on the fly it takes 20-25 miles for the ecu to set the parameters i consider that a standalone system it will learn through the entire rpm range.im not knocking it i just dont see why its better when from what i read it wont control under boost

the purposes of building a standalone ecu was to have a sled that would be driven like oem .......but boosted.this is nothing new to the automotive industry but it is to the 2 stroke snowmobile industry. our system works with a manifold absolute pressure(map sensor)therefore sensing boost all the time.i will repeat it again.....we didn't want to create an HP hype around all this but since we can optimize timming under all circumstances, HP is coming with it!! i can guarantee 30 more hp at 10lbs boost than any piggyback fuel box on the market.......and this is VERY CONSERVATIVE.
finaly to answer your first question, the ecu will not cook the motor if the 02 goes bad(like oem!) it is not a 100% closed loop,the o2 sensor is just one over many sensors that drive the system, in fact the o2 sensor is useless after 2lbs boost, compensation tables are taking over. regarding your 2003 ranger example, are you gonna cook the engine if the o2 goes bad?? no of course, the ecu will light up the check engine and will change a few parameters so you won't fry your engine.

Shwinecat · Jan 10, 2010

Very interested in this system. I live IN SD at low elvation and travel to the mountains several times a year. It would be so nice to have a system where I do not have to spend part or most of the trip dialing the sled in.

I got the Boondocker so I could get it to run awesome and I would think it was worth every penny the way the sled ran. Then I would go up or down 1000 feet in elevation or the tempature would change and I would be tuning while everyone else was riding.

Please PM if this system comes up for sale.

supraturbo · Jan 10, 2010

Shwinecat said:
Very interested in this system. I live IN SD at low elvation and travel to the mountains several times a year. It would be so nice to have a system where I do not have to spend part or most of the trip dialing the sled in.

I got the Boondocker so I could get it to run awesome and I would think it was worth every penny the way the sled ran. Then I would go up or down 1000 feet in elevation or the tempature would change and I would be tuning while everyone else was riding.

Please PM if this system comes up for sale.

your tuning problem will be solved......
i will let you know when we are ready.

would like to tell all of you guys, this is not a MIRACLE standalone ecu.....it is just a product that exist in an other industry for efi engine and now being applied to the snowmobile 2 stroke industry that's it! the real challenge is to get a tuner/physician who can map the fuel/timming curve to perfection......there is not to many of theses guys around but we happen to have one of those in our team.

MEDIUMPIMPN · Jan 10, 2010

box

so will you sell the software so we can adjust these, will the engine reverse still work

KMOD · Jan 10, 2010

supraturbo said:
your tuning problem will be solved......
i will let you know when we are ready.

would like to tell all of you guys, this is not a MIRACLE standalone ecu.....it is just a product that exist in an other industry for efi engine and now being applied to the snowmobile 2 stroke industry that's it! the real challenge is to get a tuner/physician who can map the fuel/timming curve to perfection......there is not to many of theses guys around but we happen to have one of those in our team.

So your optimizing timing with boost!!! Cool
Is that part of your 30 hp?

BigAir · Jan 10, 2010

Any idea what it is going to cost? Have any turbo kit makers signed up to sell kits with it once it is ready?

harf69 · Jan 10, 2010

nice it sounds like a sweet setup if its not 4k to buy one im in it sounds like with the R&D its not going to be cheap if it wont fry a sled if a sensor goes down and it is a set it and forget it im up to try one

supraturbo · Jan 10, 2010

KMOD said:
So your optimizing timing with boost!!! Cool
Is that part of your 30 hp?

yes it is a big part of it ....but a lot of other stuff comes in ....once again the tuner as a lot to do with smoothing the fuel/timming curve so the sled is such a nice monster to drive!!!

supraturbo · Jan 10, 2010

BigAir said:
Any idea what it is going to cost? Have any turbo kit makers signed up to sell kits with it once it is ready?

like i said previously, cost ,i hope ,will be less than 2k$ and the box can be retrofitted in any efi engine in the world, just need to adjust the wiring harness to ecu.
i wouldn't have jump so far in this venture if i didn't have at least 2 turbo kit maker jumping in too! for now it is still non practical to let you guys know who they are...!

supraturbo · Jan 10, 2010

harf69 said:
nice it sounds like a sweet setup if its not 4k to buy one im in it sounds like with the R&D its not going to be cheap if it wont fry a sled if a sensor goes down and it is a set it and forget it im up to try one

probably half of the 4k you are talking about....

jgw50 · Jan 10, 2010

Any on trail adjustments possible? With so many different kits, pipes, intercoolers, injectors, fuels, altitudes, pistons, heads, reeds, temperatures, turbos, porting, etc it seems like leaving all possibilities to be mapped out on a dyno is unrealistic. Kinda how even non-turbo guys need a fuel controller for relatively light mods. Same goes for cars. I know I've looked into a lot of different ecu's but the on the fly adjustability is what keeps me stuck with an attitude box.

ESCAPE TIME · Jan 11, 2010

Please keep use all informed,this would make all the difference in the world for a good days ride.

supraturbo · Jan 11, 2010

jgw50 said:
Any on trail adjustments possible? With so many different kits, pipes, intercoolers, injectors, fuels, altitudes, pistons, heads, reeds, temperatures, turbos, porting, etc it seems like leaving all possibilities to be mapped out on a dyno is unrealistic. Kinda how even non-turbo guys need a fuel controller for relatively light mods. Same goes for cars. I know I've looked into a lot of different ecu's but the on the fly adjustability is what keeps me stuck with an attitude box.

TO fine tune an engine for reliability,performance you MUST be a professionaly trained person,not your everyday DIY.when you say you adjust your attitude box on the fly l, you are simply limiting the slowly happening damages to your engine since a/f mixture and timming are completely disorganized therefore slowly killing your engine. the margin of error is so thin on a two stroke engine even the electric sensors have difficulty to keep proper mixture and they are talking to ecu in miliseconds so imagine you doing it manualy!. once you ride a well tune standalone with 2-3 diffrent boost maps( with a switch) you will understand there is no need to on the fly adjustability since you do not have to adjust anything!
it is way cheaper to get back on a dyno for a few hours at 150$/hour when you add changes to your set-up than to slowly destroy your engine with the fuel dumper's(wich we didn't have any other options up to now.) and buy an engine,pistons,cylinder ect..the cost of these components are way more expensive.

harf69 · Jan 11, 2010

is it a one size fits all deal can i pull it off one sled and put it on another sled without major retrofit

supraturbo · Jan 11, 2010

harf69 said:
is it a one size fits all deal can i pull it off one sled and put it on another sled without major retrofit

Yes, you will need to re-pin some of the connectors but nothing major.

jgw50 · Jan 11, 2010

I'm not sure I'm up for putting my machine on the dyno every time I make a change and then custom tuning an ECU that I already paid a bunch of money for the tuning on. And I own a dyno! Will this ECU be open source so that adjusting maps is even an option? Or will it require you in order to change the maps? Ideally you wouldent have to change the maps, just have a way to simply change basic fueling in case I see a lean spot, or if i'm running on the hill and see that my EGT's are really hot for some reason, or etc...)

I'm really interested in having a stand alone as I think there are a lot of benefits, especially with the timing and intake temp compensation, but if its not tunable to my machine, for anything I want to do to my machine, I don't think its going to be worth it. I'd just end up running a fuel controller box on top of your ECU to compensate. Just as the guys who put new airboxes, pipes, cans need to do on the factory ECU. Just changing a pipe can dramatically change how much fuel / air you need at specific RPM's / MAP's.

This all assumes that under max power conditions your ecu goes to some map that you have already programmed into it. You said in a few posts above that you did not want to rely on sensors in those cases. Well, if I do something to my motor (porting or pipe is the biggest thing that comes to mind) that could completely change the air / fuel requirements at given RPM's, and MAP signals and require that I be able to change my fueling.

I guess the solution to this might be that you offer different ECU's for specific pipe / porting setups, but it seems like there are way too many possibilities for you to cover.

I'm saying all of this as the devils advocate. I think what your doing is awesome and It appears that your doing a very good job. Your dyno facility looks great, and your knowledge seems solid, this is just be best way I know to pose questions. Drives my wife CRAZY. Your still going to talk to me aren't you?

MCIVER · Jan 11, 2010

is there any reason why you couldn't use a fuel control box (boondocker box ect.) with this standalone ecu ? I think this would be the ticket most people are looking for as for as tuning on the hill.

Boyko · Jan 11, 2010

supraturbo said:
when you say you adjust your attitude box on the fly l, you are simply limiting the slowly happening damages to your engine since a/f mixture and timming are completely disorganized therefore slowly killing your engine. the margin of error is so thin on a two stroke engine even the electric sensors have difficulty to keep proper mixture and they are talking to ecu in miliseconds so imagine you doing it manualy!. once you ride a well tune standalone with 2-3 diffrent boost maps( with a switch) you will understand there is no need to on the fly adjustability since you do not have to adjust anything!
it is way cheaper to get back on a dyno for a few hours at 150$/hour when you add changes to your set-up than to slowly destroy your engine with the fuel dumper's(wich we didn't have any other options up to now.) and buy an engine,pistons,cylinder ect..the cost of these components are way more expensive.

That’s Funny, How many miles do you think you can get out of a 2cly 2-stroke 1000 without opening it up. I had a Wideband on a M-1000 when it was stock and now it is boosted the Air Fuel Numbers roll down a lot smoother when you load it up now than it did stock.

Considering you have very little testing on this your remarks are kind of a slap on the face for a lot of people that have worked hard providing hardware and software for the efi aspect of this industry. There are a lot of hard running boosted efi sleds ripping around.

Your making a lot of promises, 3500 miles on a dyno? 3 weeks on the snow? How many different areas, altitudes and weather conditions? Do you know how much real word testing in different conditions the manufactures make on there efi systems before they release them. Get your system out for a year and than you can make judgment on how well it works taking your customer feedback into account!

2 strokes complete standalone ecu for t-m8 and t-m1000

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