Cat 800 motor vs Suzuki 800 HO

Mjunkie · Dec 5, 2018

I’m past due for an upgrade and I haven’t been on here much in the last little bit so I’m guessing this has been covered already but what is the real world experience between the two? I know the Suzuki has been a solid awesome motor but when I go to buy a new kitty is it worth getting the cat built motor or safer and better to stick with the old reliable. Thanks for the input!

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kiliki · Dec 5, 2018

new motor has held up well to this point. the old zuki is well proven but I would go with the newer 18 up for all the chassis and clutching upgrades.

kidwoo · Dec 5, 2018

Nothing wrong with the new motor and the new roller clutch is awesome.

That said, if I were looking for a non-alpha cat, I'd look for a 2017 NON-mountain cat, and maybe put the new clutches on.

Why? Because that dropped case likes to be nailed. And for all the talk about reduced attack angle, a 3" track with 8t drivers works just fine and accomplishes a lot of that. You can always narrow the boards yourself.

I've got a 2016 withe dropped case and narrow boards. If I had it to do over again I would have just stuck with the 8t drivers in the non-dropped case. The dropped case absolutely helps keep the front end down on climbs but it's not huge. I actually wish I could wheelie it a little easier now in tight spots.

Just my 2c. Either motor is great.

sno*jet · Dec 5, 2018

^I wouldn't even bother with the new clutches, '17 teams are great. belts are a lot less $. mountain cats will keep going in those pin n wiggle situations where the standard augers in. Go for the 18 if you can tho, proclimbs have horrible side panel fit.

Mjunkie · Dec 5, 2018

Thanks for all the info! How about power difference between the two motors? Are they pretty equal or is there a noticeable difference between the two? How about throttle response between them? Thanks again!

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kiliki · Dec 5, 2018

New motor engages at lower RPM lot more torque in the mid-range same Peak as the zuki be a good step for you to step down from the 1300

eldereldo · Dec 5, 2018

I had a highly upgraded 2014, went to a 2018 Mtn Cat last year, buddy rode the 2014 for the winter so had lots of chances to switch back and forth to compare.

It’s hard to separate the difference in performance from the new motor and the new clutches. Best way to look at it is that the clutches seem to be ideally suited to the new motors strengths, more bottom end from the motor combined with a lower engagement from the clutches means you can often feather your way out of a situation instead of just pinning it and hoping you don’t trench out before getting the traction and speed to escape. But if you do pin it the sled hooks up and goes right away.

Everything else about the 2018 was just more refinement on the 2014. Better stock shocks, better body panels with real latches vs Jigsaw puzzle fasteners. Better dash, More improvements to the skid. Just everything dialed up.

I wouldn’t buy a pre 2018 unless you really need to save the money.

ultrasks700 · Dec 6, 2018

I really love the new motor. Smooth and quite yet has a nice bark at WOT(even with stock muffler). Low end response is significantly better. WOT power is roughly the same but the 2018 just transfers power to the ground SO well. Slighty better fuel mileage and it sips oil compared to the Zuki. I'm sold. As said in this post and just about every 2018 vs 2017-2017 comparision, unless you are under a major budget do everything you can to get a 2018.

Big10inch · Dec 6, 2018

Might as well offer my dissenting opinion... I have a 17 MC expressly to still run the zuke motor. I also find the dropped chaincase on this model, and all of the 18+ mtn sleds from Cat to be worth having.

I do not find the notion of the new motor just sipping oil as a positive. These are 2 stroke motors and they live on oil. IMO, the less you use, the less time it is going to last. Polaris guys have been turning up oil pumps on Pro's for years. That is a crap engine design by comparison but oil helps 2 strokes live, end of story.

I wanted the narrower bodywork and boards, the dropped case and the Suzuki motor. The 17 MC is a GREAT machine. If the 18's continue to live through this season, I will be looking for an Alpha next season. I prefer not to be a beta tester for any manufacturer anymore. I did it with Polaris and got burned. I know the Suzuki will live a long life, I know the proclimb chassis is stout. I like to ride hard and prefer a well proven platform but with most of the new sleds perks.

As far as I am concerned the durability of the new motor is still a little suspect. Maybe that is an unfounded fear but the Suzuki is well known as one of the best 800 sled motors ever, you just can't go wrong with one of those. The new sleds don't have a lot of time on them yet. The jury is still out IMO. Power wise, they both get the job done. It isn't like the new one runs away from the old one, peak hp numbers are the same.

summ8rmk · Dec 6, 2018

The Ctec2 is crisp and clean at all rpm, all throttle positions.
I have never experienced bogs, or blubbers that the zuke is known for.
Fuel consumption is near identical, oil consumption is half that of the zuke.

kidwoo · Dec 6, 2018

Big10inch said:
Might as well offer my dissenting opinion... I have a 17 MC expressly to still run the zuke motor. I also find the dropped chaincase on this model, and all of the 18+ mtn sleds from Cat to be worth having.

I do not find the notion of the new motor just sipping oil as a positive. These are 2 stroke motors and they live on oil. IMO, the less you use, the less time it is going to last. Polaris guys have been turning up oil pumps on Pro's for years. That is a crap engine design by comparison but oil helps 2 strokes live, end of story.

I wanted the narrower bodywork and boards, the dropped case and the Suzuki motor. The 17 MC is a GREAT machine. If the 18's continue to live through this season, I will be looking for an Alpha next season. I prefer not to be a beta tester for any manufacturer anymore. I did it with Polaris and got burned. I know the Suzuki will live a long life, I know the proclimb chassis is stout. I like to ride hard and prefer a well proven platform but with most of the new sleds perks.

As far as I am concerned the durability of the new motor is still a little suspect. Maybe that is an unfounded fear but the Suzuki is well known as one of the best 800 sled motors ever, you just can't go wrong with one of those. The new sleds don't have a lot of time on them yet. The jury is still out IMO. Power wise, they both get the job done. It isn't like the new one runs away from the old one, peak hp numbers are the same.

Did you ever get a chance to run a non-dropped case with a 3" track and 8t drivers?

Wyo said it years ago and once I did mine I agree with him. The biggest difference is the 8t with the 3"pc, not the dropped case necessarily.

sno*jet · Dec 6, 2018

I'm with ya on that kidwoo. the internets been over-hyping rolled chain cases since the 90s. its a little better, not the game changer people who rip their sleds apart for months and then finally get back together claim it is. however, a guy looking at a MC and say a limited on the floor, what's the MC, $800 more? not worth ripping into that limited and cursing a few nights away getting 8s shoed in there imo. gotta buy the drivers and press them on or buy the whole assembly also. can't see someone doing that when the 17 limited is geared up for and works good with the 7s. id just ride either one.

kidwoo · Dec 6, 2018

sno*jet said:
not worth ripping into that limited and cursing a few nights away getting 8s shoed in there imo.

But I'm really good at it now! :face-icon-small-hap
Soapy water and some aluminum bar stock to cover the windows to slip them past the drivers. 10 minutes max, one person.

I bought a drive shaft with 8t drivers for 80 bucks.

Yeah it's pain for sure. If it's only a few hundred bucks difference and you can't find a shaft with drivers.....I could see that.

But man, I've been seeing some 16 and 17 holdovers for CHEAP. Of all the stuff I've done, gearing, 8t drivers back to stock gearing, then the dropped case..... The drivers alone and nothing else made the biggest difference, with dropping the case making almost no difference. Except that now I use and abuse skid plates.

kiliki · Dec 6, 2018

on my 16 the best set up was 20/50 (besides the TKI) with 8T and a 3", stock chain case. Now i have a 19 MC with a 3" and I can say the 16 set up did just as good getting up on the snow. not worth the D and R for the damage you can take. but worth the motor upgrade, I only wish I could have taken my 900 BB to the new sled!!!!
I feel bad for the poor fawkers in the poo section who think 40 cc are going to make a hill of bean for more true power!

Suzzy-Q · Dec 7, 2018

kidwoo said:
Nothing wrong with the new motor and the new roller clutch is awesome.

I actually wish I could wheelie it a little easier now in tight spots.

Just my 2c. Either motor is great.

What’s your shock PSI with your dropped case my 17MC has no problem with the wheelie, I’ve had to adjust my rear skid mid ride before to accommodate for the snow conditions and the steepness of the climbs to help keep the front end down.

Big10inch · Dec 7, 2018

kidwoo said:
Did you ever get a chance to run a non-dropped case with a 3" track and 8t drivers?

Wyo said it years ago and once I did mine I agree with him. The biggest difference is the 8t with the 3"pc, not the dropped case necessarily.

No I have not. My buddy rides a 16 LTD 162 but it is all stock except for the can.

I haven't had an issues hitting things with the D&R sled. My previous Axys also had the bump outs below the pan and I never hit those either, and I have never fitted a skid plate to a sled.

It does get up on the snow better than the stock 16, I have ridden them both enough to know that. I bought mine as a holdover, didn't cost me anything extra to buy one with the D&R. I think there is a reason both Cat and Poo run these configurations on their mtn sleds, because it works. The G4 might too but those are not even on my radar for several reasons.

kidwoo · Dec 7, 2018

Suzzy-Q said:
I’ve had to adjust my rear skid mid ride before to accommodate for the snow conditions and the steepness of the climbs to help keep the front end down.

Huh. I felt like I was always doing that before I changed things from the stock 16. I mean you can go back and read the threads about how much everyone was praising the 17 MC for actually climbing instead of looping out like the 16s were.

The 16s had a few issues IMO. Gearing AND approach angle just combined for a wheelie machine every time I needed to punch it hard uphill. I've run all kinds of shocks on the rear, coils, evols, and now the QSL and shorter pullrod for the ascenders. I want to say I usually hang around 140-150psi.

10inch: same here regarding hitting things and skid plates.......until I dropped the case on this one. It's not frequent but I've definitely nailed it. Thank god for thick UHMW plastic!

Just my thoughts on the matter. I'm always looking for cheaper sleds for friends and the price differences on the 17 non-MC sleds still around is pretty darn good, and are every bit of the sled as the acenders with some small tweaks. I've only ridden the 'detuned' ascenders, not the early releases.

sno*jet · Dec 7, 2018

kidwoo said:
But I'm really good at it now! :face-icon-small-hap
Soapy water and some aluminum bar stock to cover the windows to slip them past the drivers. 10 minutes max, one person.

I bought a drive shaft with 8t drivers for 80 bucks.

Yeah it's pain for sure. If it's only a few hundred bucks difference and you can't find a shaft with drivers.....I could see that.

But man, I've been seeing some 16 and 17 holdovers for CHEAP. Of all the stuff I've done, gearing, 8t drivers back to stock gearing, then the dropped case..... The drivers alone and nothing else made the biggest difference, with dropping the case making almost no difference. Except that now I use and abuse skid plates.

I could see getting a 16 for cheap and doing it, but not a brand new 17. add 19/50 gears to the list if ya did, imo that's the right gears for 8s with the stock 48 degree helix. now everything you've touched from the jackshaft down has no warranty... I couldn't do it, not when I've hopped back n forth from my buddies 17 LTD to mine and seen its hard to tell the diff. if you're not over the hood pow. the 21/49 gears pull good and has same MC mapping the Internet crazed over.

summ8rmk · Dec 7, 2018

My stock 18mtn cat 162 vs my 14/16 153x3 claw 8tooth driver and full Jaws.

18 straight up whooped some azz on long hills in deep snow.

I know the track lengths play a roll however, my zuke is close to 170hp and the Ctec2 was 150ish.

Old & slow · Dec 8, 2018

IMHO the C-tec is a refined and compliant version of the Suzuki. The tolerances are the same, lay down design etc. The main difference is the fuel delivery and head design. The C-tec addressed the weak points in the old version, low end torque, crispness etc. The C-tec has proven it self to me, if there was a design flaw it would have surfaced by now. Since A/C designed the lay down engine their reliability has been the best of the three 2 strokes manufactures. Personally I would buy the newest A/C I could afford, every year from 2015 they have been significantly better.

Cat 800 motor vs Suzuki 800 HO

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