800/700CFI cranks in 600r/600HO cases..lets talk

IQRIDR · Jul 13, 2010

So we all know there are some pretty good power numbers coming out of these mod motors, but the parts used and the mods made to cases/cylinders are a little in the dark. I know the 700CFI crank can be used in the 600 HO, with 700 cylinders, as long as the cases are properly clearanced, but what else goes into making this motor work correctly?

And on that subject, let's discuss the other possible options..

600ho - 64 mm stroke
700cfi - 68 mm stroke
800cfi -70 mm stroke
600r-70mm stroke

800cfi crank in 600ho case appears to be what the Carl's 860 is based off. But they are using custom cast cylinders. It makes me wonder if there is a OEM piston and cylinder combo that could be modified to work? Maybe using a deck plate and some port timing changes?

I have a spare 700cfi crank and 600ho case, I am thinking about finding a 600r or 800CFI crank and really trying to figure out what possibilities are out there .

Angermangement890 · Jul 13, 2010

IQRIDR said:
So we all know there are some pretty good power numbers coming out of these mod motors, but the parts used and the mods made to cases/cylinders are a little in the dark. I know the 700CFI crank can be used in the 600 HO, with 700 cylinders, as long as the cases are properly clearanced, but what else goes into making this motor work correctly?

And on that subject, let's discuss the other possible options..

600ho - 64 mm stroke
700cfi - 68 mm stroke
800cfi -70 mm stroke
600r-70mm stroke

800cfi crank in 600ho case appears to be what the Carl's 860 is based off. But they are using custom cast cylinders. It makes me wonder if there is a OEM piston and cylinder combo that could be modified to work? Maybe using a deck plate and some port timing changes?

I have a spare 700cfi crank and 600ho case, I am thinking about finding a 600r or 800CFI crank and really trying to figure out what possibilities are out there .

Incorrect information in the bold.

Lots more IQR engine talk over on H C S.

IQRIDR · Jul 13, 2010

Angermangement890 said:
Incorrect information in the bold.

Lots more IQR engine talk over on H C S.

Ok, that's what this thread is about, lets get the information out there. I've scanned HCS a little lately and only found tidbits. Feel free to share?

Angermangement890 · Jul 13, 2010

IQRIDR said:
Ok, that's what this thread is about, lets get the information out there. I've scanned HCS a little lately and only found tidbits. Feel free to share?

Check your PM's.

63nova · Jul 14, 2010

CFI cranks are a different length on both ends

CFI cranks (600,700 & 800) are differnet than the carb cranks on both ends. On the recoil end this means that the crank taper won't be in the right place for the ingintion and flywheel to fit properly. On the PTO end, the crank will hang 1/2" out of the crankcase - the carb crankcase is too short to accept the CFI bearings, so you'd have to use the carb bearings which don't support the crank as well. Also, with the longer PTO end, you have to either move your clutches out or move the engine over.

The CFI connecting rods are .040" wider as well. I don't know whether or not that creates any problems with whatever pistons you want to use.

IQRIDR · Jul 14, 2010

63nova said:
CFI cranks (600,700 & 800) are differnet than the carb cranks on both ends. On the recoil end this means that the crank taper won't be in the right place for the ingintion and flywheel to fit properly. On the PTO end, the crank will hang 1/2" out of the crankcase - the carb crankcase is too short to accept the CFI bearings, so you'd have to use the carb bearings which don't support the crank as well. Also, with the longer PTO end, you have to either move your clutches out or move the engine over.

The CFI connecting rods are .040" wider as well. I don't know whether or not that creates any problems with whatever pistons you want to use.

Thank you for this info. I know that the on the recoil end, the case can be slightly modified so a normal 600HO stator can be installed, clocked correctly, and timed. I do not know what all goes into this process as I don't have a 600HO case at the moment. I have heard of using the carbed HO bearings on the crank with a little machining to the case halves, but I did not know about them not supporting the crank well. I don't think the rod width would end up being a problem.

Thanks again for the info and feel free to share any other thoughts or insight.

BIGMEATS · Jul 16, 2010

Chad I am going to take some more pictures of my 700CFI crank in the 600ho case for you since its all apart right now. And how i modifiyed the stator plate and the mag side of the crank so the flywheel will fit. I will send them to your email and maybe you can post them on this site.

IQRIDR · Jul 19, 2010

Thanks, and I still may be interested in your motor, but have been very busy at the shop..

ripsass · Jul 20, 2010

Watcha thinkin? Franken-Poo?

You'll have to forgive angermenstral890, as he has all the answers (but won't share them for fear that someone else disagrees).
So much for getting the info out there...

I'll share how much my new 800r RIPS as soon as there's enough POW to lay the PAH down! Hell I'll even let you abuse some too. (owed!)

Really hoping to see close to the 160's that I;ve been hearing claimed on this setup.

Angermangement890 · Jul 20, 2010

ripsass said:
Watcha thinkin? Franken-Poo?

You'll have to forgive angermenstral890, as he has all the answers (but won't share them for fear that someone else disagrees).
So much for getting the info out there...

I'll share how much my new 800r RIPS as soon as there's enough POW to lay the PAH down! Hell I'll even let you abuse some too. (owed!)

Really hoping to see close to the 160's that I;ve been hearing claimed on this setup.

My issue does not lie with disagreement its a pay for info sight over here, post this topic elsewhere and I may be willing to share it on a free for everyone forum. No issues with sharing information, I just try and do it where everyone can see it and benefit.

BIGMEATS · Jul 20, 2010

Chad pics are sent to your email let me know if you have more questions or need more pics of anything

Cheers

63nova · Jul 21, 2010

PTO end

The CFI cranks also have the large PTO taper, so the clutch from a carb engine won't fit. You'll need to use a 2007up CFI clutch. No biggie, but something to keep in mind.

The Bob · Jul 21, 2010

Ripass I would use your head a little before ripping on people that obviously have more knowledge than you. Yes Anger and many other people I know have a issue with this site stealing info (like they have already) from the forums and using it for financial gain by putting it in there magazine. Read the fine print on your membership, any info you put on here becomes the property of Snowest. Again there are alot of people that have left here and headed over to HCS because of this. I know for a fact that Anger doesn't have problem admitting he has made a mistake, and I also know that he DOES know ALOT about Polaris's and the mod combo's. Last time I stopped by his house he had about 7 engines sitting there ranging from 660, 685, 730, etc (granted you can't leave until you buy something). Not trying to start world war 3 here. You just don't need to get into the name calling instantly. Makes you seem alot younger than the quoted 32 you say you are.

Hah 160 HP? Go to Bike Man they will give you 185 out of your 800r, haha, and I will sell you Ocean front property in Iowa.

Now that said. I know for a fact you can use the 800 CFI cases with the 600r crank in it. Last year there was a period when Polaris was back ordered on the 600r cases. So people where just ordering the 800 CFI cases and plugging the injector ports. So there said. 800 CFI and 600r have similar cranks, the mag seal is the same on both but the PTO is different. I don't know if thats because the plate that the 800 CFI has on it. Cranks do have different part numbers with the 600r being about $600.00 more than the CFI. I thought you could use clutches off of the CFI's. Good to know.

Might of already been said but Carl's has a different 70mm crank they are using for there 600 ho and older 800 BB (not the same 70mm obviously) big bore kits. I want to say the company that was making them was in Italy or something.

IQRIDR · Jul 21, 2010

Let's not take this thread where it doesn't need to go, and I want to say thanks to those who have posted useful info. I understand the desire to avoid giving snowest free info that they may use for financial gain and respect those who choose not to.

The Bob · Jul 21, 2010

Yep I here ya. Sorry if I got out of line. But I am pretty sure he can't read it anyway.

63nova · Jul 22, 2010

600R vs 600HO

tblade0123 said:
Now that said. I know for a fact you can use the 800 CFI cases with the 600r crank in it. Last year there was a period when Polaris was back ordered on the 600r cases. So people where just ordering the 800 CFI cases and plugging the injector ports. So there said. 800 CFI and 600r have similar cranks, the mag seal is the same on both but the PTO is different. I don't know if thats because the plate that the 800 CFI has on it. Cranks do have different part numbers with the 600r being about $600.00 more than the CFI. I thought you could use clutches off of the CFI's. Good to know.

Might of already been said but Carl's has a different 70mm crank they are using for there 600 ho and older 800 BB (not the same 70mm obviously) big bore kits. I want to say the company that was making them was in Italy or something.

Reading the original post again, he is looking for options for a 600HO crankcase. The early posts address that. The 800CFI/600R crankcase obviously can take any CFI crank, but it is a lot different from the 600HO case - the mounting on the Mag end is way different and the PTO end is longer so the mounting in the sled would need quite a bit of work (assuming the sled is currently set up for a HO engine).

IQRIDR · Jul 22, 2010

63nova said:
Reading the original post again, he is looking for options for a 600HO crankcase. The early posts address that. The 800CFI/600R crankcase obviously can take any CFI crank, but it is a lot different from the 600HO case - the mounting on the Mag end is way different and the PTO end is longer so the mounting in the sled would need quite a bit of work (assuming the sled is currently set up for a HO engine).

Indeed, that is what I was inquiring to, but am also very interested in the possible mod combos to be done with the 600r case. Honestly what I'm looking for are all the small-block based mod motor combos, I am done dealing with the 800 big block-based motors for my personal sleds, and don't really want to do the same 800 monoblock motor that everyone is doing. Not that they don't make good power, I'd just like something different and not using a monoblock cylinder.

BIGMEATS · Jul 22, 2010

As for mounting it in the sled i run a 07 IQR, 700CFI top end and Crank in a 600HO case for the last 2-3 years. Only issue with mounting it in the sled well there isn't one. I can make the 600HO rewind fit the 700 cranked 600HO case easy just need to take 1/4" off of crank threads and shorten the nut. This is so it will clear the 10 MM nut on the rewind. Done. modding the stator plate and case is a little bit of an issue because of where the key is cut on the 700 crank in relation to TDC. It is different then a 600HO crank so the stator must be clocked to correct this. Just cut a hole in the top of the case between 12-2 o'clock position and mount it through the top of the case with the wires coming out. Just get it in the same position as a CFI case but time it correctly. I used a degree wheel since you lose the timing hole in the case now. I ran it with a 600HO 18degree flywheel and 600 HO stator. The flywheel appears to not slide over the stator completely(correct) but it doesn't cause any issues with running the engine. The stator will run the complete electrical system (lights, warmers) no issues, starts normally never loses any energy for spark or control of the spark (feeling like a weak stator)the PERC even works correctly running a factory 600HO CDI. As for the PTO side its a little longer but just shim the secondary out and align the clutchs. Not a big deal. It does make the belt a little tight getting it out from the sled as the clutch gets close to the fender. This combo worked trouble free for me for 2 years until the mag side oil line came of to the carb on the pump side and the rod started getting tight from lack of oil. I would not be scared to build one of these motors again.

ripsass · Jul 26, 2010

Bwahahaha! Relax, I was just a little drunk and havin some fun.

I agree completely with the reasoning there. Glad I could get everyone all bent out of shape.

Later.

800/700CFI cranks in 600r/600HO cases..lets talk

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