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Presidential Candidates-2008--Who Supports Us?

Bagger

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Really....

"It's unfortunate that a large portion of the sledding population are ignorant redneck sheep."[/QUOTE]

That's a great way to get someone to change thier way of thinking. Kinda' like me posting something like "Some SnoWester's are ignorant idiots that shoot thier mouths off about other people with out knowing the slightest thing about whom they are talking about".

I've always wondered why some folks don't post where they live, or what thier name is. Think I just figured it out. Bagger
 
M
Dec 7, 2007
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"It's unfortunate that a large portion of the sledding population are ignorant redneck sheep."

That's a great way to get someone to change thier way of thinking. Kinda' like me posting something like "Some SnoWester's are ignorant idiots that shoot thier mouths off about other people with out knowing the slightest thing about whom they are talking about".r[/QUOTE]

Are you talking about yourself here? If you think that "It's unfortunate that a large portion of the sledding population are ignorant redneck sheep." isn't a 100% true statement, well, you're wrong.

EDIT: I'm not trying to start an internet pissing match here at all... just stating my opinion.
 
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Bagger

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Facts.

"Are you talking about yourself here? If you think that "It's unfortunate that a large portion of the sledding population are ignorant redneck sheep." isn't a 100% true statement, well, you're wrong."

EDIT: I'm not trying to start an internet pissing match here at all... just stating my opinion.[/QUOTE]

What facts are you basing this opinion on? Do you have demographic studies relating the life/voting record/marriage licenses (a little humor)/political views arrest record of all Snowmobilers?

Please list some facts that you know about me, lets see what you know about me that makes you so sure that I'm an ignorant redneck sheep.

Bagger
 

ruffryder

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Please list some facts that you know about me, lets see what you know about me that makes you so sure that I'm an ignorant redneck sheep.

Maybe he didn't realize that when he said a large majority that it really meant only you. If you are a large majority I wonder what a small majority is. Mini Bagger?:p
 
M
Dec 7, 2007
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Please list some facts that you know about me, lets see what you know about me that makes you so sure that I'm an ignorant redneck sheep.

Bagger
You weren't smart enough to graduate high school so you had to join Job Corps?

....only joking.... i said a majority of the sledding population not you.
 

Bagger

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Mini-Bagger

Ruff, that's good! :D

I really would like to know what facts about all snowmobilers he is referencing when he makes that statement. And it's not about snowmobilers, it's the blanket statement that this group must be this way or that group must be that way.

I equate making a statement such as "Women are bad drivers", or "People from West Virginia all marry thier Sisters" or "Most of this group are ignorant rednecks" with shooting into a crowd.
It's POSSIBLE you might hit whom you want, but it's PROBABLE you will hit someone that you don't even know.

A better statement would have been, "I know 50 snowmobilers, and 27 of them are ignorant redneck sheep". At least that statement is based on knowledge of the 50 people, not just on snapshots of people that he may not know. Do you understand what I mean?
If I started making blanket, umprovable derogatory statements about people from your home town, or family, or business, what would you think of me?

Bagger (the full sized version!)
 

Bagger

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You Sir, are an ***.

You weren't smart enough to graduate high school so you had to join Job Corps?

....only joking.... i said a majority of the sledding population not you.



Thank you, with that statement you just proved my point. Bagger
 

ruffryder

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One thing to keep in mind is that the average snowmobiler in WA has a different social/environmental philosophy (much less redneck) than those in the midwest (my experience) . So your viewpoint or rather reference for average/majority is different if you are thinking about Washington sledders . The sledders I know in Washington seem to be much more educated/ caring about the environment and have a more open mind when it comes to government policy on a number of issues. That was part of the reason I wanted to move out here. So it is my opinion that you are the exception to that statement, and since you probably ride with friends that have similar beliefs, they are also the exception. So the majority of the people you know are the exception to the majority of snowmobilers that are rednecks. Majority of the minority?

Note that I am not mentioning any other western states because I don't know nor have experience with them.

Though the statement was true in the past, I believe and hope that that majority is getting smaller and smaller.
 
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Bagger

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Me Too.

Though the statement was true in the past, I believe and hope that that majority is getting smaller and smaller.

If that statement is true, I also hope it's shrinking. I would like to think that Joe Average care's about more than just what serves himself.

BTW, it's nice to discuss with someone that reasons and talks instead of just kicking dirt. :beer;

Bagger
 
F
Dec 1, 2007
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Drooling ignorant redneck sheep.

Hahahaha wtf is that video?

I understand your reaction though, the mainstream media hasn't portrayed Ron Paul in the best of ways. Look into him, do some reading, look at his voting record, and think for yourself!

It's unfortunate that a large portion of the sledding population are ignorant redneck sheep.


Yup, I'm a crazy ignorant redneck..momma always said life is like box of stupid.

If by some miracle tomorrow morning someone had invented cold fusion you would still
be wrong. What we do in the next few years in the mid-east will determine (for the whole world)
weather we have a relative peaceful world or one of coas and misery for all the obvious reasons.
Paul wants to pull the troops and go home. That sounds warm and fuzzy but with the power vacume it would hand the keys
right to Iran and Al qada. All of the sacrafice and investment would be for nothing.
In my best John Kerry imitation...OH, no more than 5000 casualties. The catastrophy that
would happen if we left Iraq...would make the killing fields look like a game of grab-ars.

Again,if we left the region as Paul suggests the crazy muhllas would look at it as the divine hand-job of all time..
With no one to keep them in line they would soon take over an already critical situation
in Pakistan...Makmood Ahmandinnerjacket wouldnt have to make his own nukes he would
just use Pakistan's. This policy imho makes Paul a loon and not electable.

On a lighter note the Paulbats as they've come to be known always seem to have a handle
on any pole that comes up. From conservative websites to the leftiest...whenever a pole
comes up the Paulbats get busy and run the pole into Paul's favor.Such devotion but a little creepy.

Right now Mr.Paul has some very serious accusations of having some lunch time with the Neo-Nazis.
Hopefully it isnt true...looks like someone is taking notice of the 6 million windfall his
campaign took in the other day.
 
S
Dec 21, 2007
125
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Coquitlam, BC
Not that we have it any better up here in Canada, but as an American citizen I honestly can't bring myself to vote for ANY of the potential candidates in the upcoming election. I'd like to think there will be a change for the better, as I have not been happy with the Bush administration (nicest thing I can say about them), but I don't see any of these potential candidates being able to lead the US in any real positive direction.
We have interesting times ahead:confused:

That said, I will defend my right to ride to the very end, and if they try and close everything I will ride anyways (long as there's snow!:face-icon-small-con)
 
S
Nov 26, 2007
1,248
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Everett, Wa.
Ron Paul

Yup, I'm a crazy ignorant redneck..momma always said life is like box of stupid.

If by some miracle tomorrow morning someone had invented cold fusion you would still
be wrong. What we do in the next few years in the mid-east will determine (for the whole world)
weather we have a relative peaceful world or one of coas and misery for all the obvious reasons.
Paul wants to pull the troops and go home. That sounds warm and fuzzy but with the power vacume it would hand the keys
right to Iran and Al qada. All of the sacrafice and investment would be for nothing.
In my best John Kerry imitation...OH, no more than 5000 casualties. The catastrophy that
would happen if we left Iraq...would make the killing fields look like a game of grab-ars.

Again,if we left the region as Paul suggests the crazy muhllas would look at it as the divine hand-job of all time..
With no one to keep them in line they would soon take over an already critical situation
in Pakistan...Makmood Ahmandinnerjacket wouldnt have to make his own nukes he would
just use Pakistan's. This policy imho makes Paul a loon and not electable.

On a lighter note the Paulbats as they've come to be known always seem to have a handle
on any pole that comes up. From conservative websites to the leftiest...whenever a pole
comes up the Paulbats get busy and run the pole into Paul's favor.Such devotion but a little creepy.

Right now Mr.Paul has some very serious accusations of having some lunch time with the Neo-Nazis.
Hopefully it isnt true...looks like someone is taking notice of the 6 million windfall his
campaign took in the other day.

Framus: Having worked with Ron Paul years ago on the money issue, fiat money as opposed to Gold and Silver, I found him to be extremely pro constitutional in his philosophies and he has never wavered in his voting in congress. He is definately libertarian in philosophy and a strict constuctionist. I would think you will find most libertarians are against foreign entanglements such as Iraq, or Bosnia or Kosova. None of us will ever find a candidate that is 100% in belief with our philosopies and Ron fits that mold. As for the Nazi connections I think you would find those groups would agree with a lot of your beliefs, not to defend their whacko positions, and I am sure Ron's positions are closer to theirs than any other candidate that doesn't mean he agrees with their philosophy, remember NAZI's were National Socialists and Ron is a strict constitutional. The real issue is he will not get the support to become the republican candidate so the issue is moot unless he tries an independant candidacy in which case I would agree he has gone off the deep end. I would certainly enjoy his presidency over the democratic option if he actually got to that point. Swampy:D:beer;

Clinton takes terror cash

I recently read a news item that really enraged me. And the fact that this hasn't received wider play in the mainstream media is one of the things that's gotten me fuming. According to a news report, democratic presidential candidate Sen. Hillary Clinton has taken thousands of dollars in cash donations from Islamist individuals and organizations that are currently under federal investigation for terror-financing, money laundering, and tax fraud.

Please tell me that this gets your blood pressure spiking as much as it does mine!

This sort of incident exposes the dark, money-driven expediency of the American political system. Principles are a thing of the past. Candidates will take money anywhere and from anyone in the hopes that it can buy one more vote. It's sickening in the extreme.

What makes this incident even harder to believe is that, given all of the stink that was raised over campaign finance reform during the last election, that donations from such suspect individuals and organizations would be accepted in the first place. I'm not sure what makes me more uncomfortable: that Clinton would have people on her staff capable of such gross incompetence, or that she would have people on her staff capable of turning a blind eye toward money from modern-day fifth columnists.

But wait! There's an even more frightening subtext to this story. Knowing that campaign donations for the odds-on favorite to be the Democratic nominee are sure to be closely monitored and reported, which party has the bigger cojones in this situation? The Clinton campaign or the would-be terrorists? It's hard to believe that a terrorist organization – the kind we've been led to believe are lying low in anonymous "sleeper cells" throughout the country – could be brazen enough to actually donate money to an American presidential candidate.

I'm forever alerting you to the goings-on of Big Pharma using cash to grease the wheels of Big Government, so maybe I'm naïve to be as shocked and disappointed by this story as I am.

And it's not just the Clinton campaign. These same donors are also on record for having given money to other candidates in other races – including Republicans. But Clinton is the only active presidential candidate to receive funds from these suspect sources during this election cycle.

The 2008 election has many more months. What other disappointing, frustrating, and infuriating revelations lie ahead? Only time will tell.
 
W
Nov 2, 2001
3,460
279
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Boise, Id
It's unfortunate that a large portion of the sledding population are ignorant redneck sheep.

Nice generalization.

Rednecks possibly, but I happen to be more comfortable around rednecks than elites. Rednecks tend to be honest, family oriented types; with a hard working disposition, and strong values such as personal responsibility. Plus rednecks are good to have in a fight. Elites (those socially / environmentally sensitive types ), tend to move with latest fashionable trend. They general cast off on great crusades without referencing any navigational data, with a common overriding quest too "belong". All they seem to need is a strong leader. And, they suck as warriors, and are the first to cut and run.

I would tend to see Rednecks as a group that changes very slow. After all, the general image of a redneck, hasn't changed much over the last century, although rednecks have changed. (white trash is a totally different subject)

And elites, well they look a lot like sheep to me. That's not to say that some of their movements weren't good, take abolitionism (both types), suffrage, and some liberal freedoms such as the right to protest and free speech and governmental limits of power. But, some have been down right harebrained, such as prohibition, liberation of the mind through chemistry, globalization, and pandering to world threats, with the latest being a religious fervor for the environment.

Summary, Rednecks are good people, and not sheep like at all.

Oh, and were not ignorant either. :)
 
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F
Dec 1, 2007
376
60
28
NORTH BEND
Framus: Having worked with Ron Paul years ago on the money issue, fiat money as opposed to Gold and Silver, I found him to be extremely pro constitutional in his philosophies and he has never wavered in his voting in congress. He is definately libertarian in philosophy and a strict constuctionist. I would think you will find most libertarians are against foreign entanglements such as Iraq, or Bosnia or Kosova. None of us will ever find a candidate that is 100% in belief with our philosopies and Ron fits that mold. As for the Nazi connections I think you would find those groups would agree with a lot of your beliefs, not to defend their whacko positions, and I am sure Ron's positions are closer to theirs than any other candidate that doesn't mean he agrees with their philosophy, remember NAZI's were National Socialists and Ron is a strict constitutional. The real issue is he will not get the support to become the republican candidate so the issue is moot unless he tries an independant candidacy in which case I would agree he has gone off the deep end. I would certainly enjoy his presidency over the democratic option if he actually got to that point. Swampy:D:beer;

Clinton takes terror cash

I recently read a news item that really enraged me. And the fact that this hasn't received wider play in the mainstream media is one of the things that's gotten me fuming. According to a news report, democratic presidential candidate Sen. Hillary Clinton has taken thousands of dollars in cash donations from Islamist individuals and organizations that are currently under federal investigation for terror-financing, money laundering, and tax fraud.

Please tell me that this gets your blood pressure spiking as much as it does mine!

This sort of incident exposes the dark, money-driven expediency of the American political system. Principles are a thing of the past. Candidates will take money anywhere and from anyone in the hopes that it can buy one more vote. It's sickening in the extreme.

What makes this incident even harder to believe is that, given all of the stink that was raised over campaign finance reform during the last election, that donations from such suspect individuals and organizations would be accepted in the first place. I'm not sure what makes me more uncomfortable: that Clinton would have people on her staff capable of such gross incompetence, or that she would have people on her staff capable of turning a blind eye toward money from modern-day fifth columnists.

But wait! There's an even more frightening subtext to this story. Knowing that campaign donations for the odds-on favorite to be the Democratic nominee are sure to be closely monitored and reported, which party has the bigger cojones in this situation? The Clinton campaign or the would-be terrorists? It's hard to believe that a terrorist organization – the kind we've been led to believe are lying low in anonymous "sleeper cells" throughout the country – could be brazen enough to actually donate money to an American presidential candidate.

I'm forever alerting you to the goings-on of Big Pharma using cash to grease the wheels of Big Government, so maybe I'm naïve to be as shocked and disappointed by this story as I am.

And it's not just the Clinton campaign. These same donors are also on record for having given money to other candidates in other races – including Republicans. But Clinton is the only active presidential candidate to receive funds from these suspect sources during this election cycle.

The 2008 election has many more months. What other disappointing, frustrating, and infuriating revelations lie ahead? Only time will tell.

Sorry Swamp, I cant hang with you on this one.I'm well aware of nor would I delude myself into thinking I'd ever get the perfect candidate that agreed with my view %100 however the issue of our time is sitting in the middle east and it is completely insane. If fact there seems to be 10s of thousands of em willing to do their duty for their murderous prophet. I dont need to tell you that it only takes little more than a word or two from the likes of Eichmandinnerjacket and the fuel prices jump. Even if we had the perfect energy policy and didnt buy one bucket of oil from over there it still would become a problem.
You only need to look at what some neighborhoods in Paris are dealing with NOW. The idiot politicians agreed... not allow police to ENTER Muslim neighborhoods.I wonder how they managed that? Everytime theres an alledged incident...Paris burns. The UK is waking up to this mess as well.They ONLY want to live by their own law....sharia law. Little by little they will have the means to bring it all down. Destroy freedom with freedom and in the EU there seems to be 100s of paper waving Chamberlins fighting for the chance to betray a civilization which has endured for ages.Just tonight I heard on the news that the actress Vanessa Redgrave posted ($50k) 1/2 the bail for a well know jihadie who was incarcerated in Guantanamo and is wanted in Spain. Redgrave called Guantanamo a concentration camp which is imoral...yada yada.
I dont know if Islam is ready for a renasance but it's needed in the worst way. Hopefully by stabilizing Iraq we can help facilitate this.With prosperity and success hopefully the masses will tell the old crusty mullahs and Bin Laden to stuff it. But I want no part of Pauls cut and run. It would be a disaster. If Paul somehow takes the Republican nomination I'll vote for the democrate out of spite.
 
S
Nov 26, 2007
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Everett, Wa.
Hang there

George: I didn't know I was hanging anywhere. I thought I mentioned there is probably no way you can expect to see Paul being the candidate so it is a moot point. As for Foreign policy you are preaching to the choir, without even the monitary issues involoved in whacko islamic control in the middle east there is also catholic prophesy that in the end times there weill be a new religion come forth, something that fits these evildoers well. I have always completely supported the war on terror against anyone, my nephew served 4 tours in Iraq with the Devil Dogs marine unit. My post was certainly not to question your opposition to Paul but to show he is not the evil candidate and you would probably agree with 90% of his positions, his stand on the war is not my position either but I would not include his name with that of the Nazi's. Swampy:):face-icon-small-con
 
V
Nov 27, 2007
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denver area
My opinion is that how a President treats land use is an indicator of how he will treat other issues. If a President favors public land management, they generally favor lower tax rates, individual rights and less government involvement in general.

I favor the use and MANAGEMENT of public land. If you close large areas off to all access and care, it leads to unmanageable forest fires, spread of disease, etc. Just look here in CO at the beetle kill areas. A lot of it has to do with not enough logging. If you have a good management plan, you can reduce the risk to life and property and make use of the areas. Select logging and access roads/trails can not only be profitable for a severely in debt government, it can save lives and private property when a natural disaster occurs.

There are needs of wildlife, etc. that need to be considered, that is why a good comprehensive plan needs to be followed, not a knee jerk reaction to simpy close areas down or open the up with no restrictions. You don't see farmers creating dustbowls anymore. They are pretty good at managing their land because they depend on it. Ducks unlimited has created more wetland areas than any government agency or environmental group. The original conservationists are farmers and hunters because they depend on the land and wildlife for their living, not just to feel better. I think in general sledders are good stewards of the land and want it preserved for future generations. The definition of preserved is where groups differ. (note: there will always be some bad apples in every group)
 
W
Nov 2, 2001
3,460
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Boise, Id
vmaxfrank, I couldn't agree more.

Good fire management policy, protects wildlife as well as humans and their private property. Not to mention, it keeps jobs here, and helps stop deforestation in the tropics.
 

xrated

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One thing to keep in mind is that the average snowmobiler in WA has a different social/environmental philosophy (much less redneck) than those in the midwest (my experience) . So your viewpoint or rather reference for average/majority is different if you are thinking about Washington sledders . The sledders I know in Washington seem to be much more educated/ caring about the environment and have a more open mind when it comes to government policy on a number of issues. That was part of the reason I wanted to move out here. So it is my opinion that you are the exception to that statement, and since you probably ride with friends that have similar beliefs, they are also the exception. So the majority of the people you know are the exception to the majority of snowmobilers that are rednecks. Majority of the minority?

Note that I am not mentioning any other western states because I don't know nor have experience with them.

Though the statement was true in the past, I believe and hope that that majority is getting smaller and smaller.


so being from the midwest, I'm just curious how my WA brothers are more educated and caring for the environment? Or government policy. Does living in WA just make you a more caring educated person? Please let me know if I have been doing things all back asswards for living in MN, where I feel that farmers and the government policy on wetland drainage and drain tile has REALLY HELPED out our states wildlife and water quality.(note sarcasm)

Wade, as always good points!
 

ruffryder

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so being from the midwest, I'm just curious how my WA brothers are more educated and caring for the environment? Or government policy. Does living in WA just make you a more caring educated person? Please let me know if I have been doing things all back asswards for living in MN, where I feel that farmers and the government policy on wetland drainage and drain tile has REALLY HELPED out our states wildlife and water quality.(note sarcasm)

Wade, as always good points!

Not sure on the how. It could just be that my experiences with snowmobilers has been from a rural background elsewhere, and here in Washington (Seattle metro area) the snowmobilers are from a more urban background?

Another thing might be that some of the people moved out here for the mountains and such, which brings a higher level of caring about the area?

FWIW, I know a lot of rednecks in Illinois, Wisconsin, and Michigan, but I have found less here. Could be my small pool of people I am interacting with but this is what I have noticed.
 
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