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Oil consumption 19:1

Troyaski

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Feb 26, 2012
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I had the chance to get my first miles on my Gen 4 last weekend. At 12 miles it went through a 1/4 tank of oil. At 30 miles it was at just above 1/2 a tank of oil used. Once the break in dropped below 80% left it is using less oil. Day one, 65 miles and just over 1/2 a tank of oil and almost out of gas. Day two, 35 miles, 1/4 tank of oil and 1/2 of gas. 60% left on break in. Conditions were 1 to 2 feet of heavier snow with an inch of ice crust on day two.

Lots of power.
 
P
Nov 28, 2007
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When they added injectors in the throttle bodies running fuel through the bottom end again the oil consumption had to go up -- the fuel washing out oil to some extend needs to be replaced. That was the beauty of direct injection -- no fuel in the bottom end washing out oil. I would gander a bet that for emission testing they will require steady power settings where the Throttle body injectors never fire. So not far of the Volkswagen diesel-gate.

By the way I love my 850 but would have no issue giving up the extra injectors for better oil and fuel consumption. I could live with the old 800s throttle response as long as I can keep 850 power.
 
F
Nov 27, 2007
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Have a few turbo kits on the 800 that have secondary injection.. Been pumping raw fuel for years down them with out oil added and no problems.. They use maybe a litre a day for a tank of fuel and run well..

So I don't see why the 850 needs oil there on there boost injectors.. I do know of guys now that have droped there oil number with budds and candoo 4 digits and are still running well with 1/3 a tank of oil being used on a tank of fuel..:eyebrows:
 
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logan1080

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Feb 12, 2013
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Isn't there some direct oiling for the crank that could add to consumption?
 

summ8rmk

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Is the 850 made by ex VW techs?
How do u pass emissions with 19:1?
Test vehicle use 50:1?

Alpha Cat......
 

sledhead_24_7

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It’s all rated at very specific RPM and Speed.

W.F.O. And lots variety in throttle usage causes the crap oil use.
 

sledhead_24_7

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Though I’m pretty sure this is why my oil use is so high that is on my 18 175 850, never been reset all season. 670-700 miles at this point.

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DooTraxx

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Nov 29, 2007
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The oil consumption in the 850 is absolutely ridiculous. When guys defend BRP by saying I’d rather buy oil than a motor that statement is laughable. My old 1980 dirt bike ran 20:1. Does BRP have a spec that they feel these sled should be running? The engineers at BRP should be completely embarrassed to put a new sled out that uses this much oil. Pathetic
 
D
May 24, 2012
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That does seem to be the case.



Yesterday was a deep day, lots of WFO, probably 17 miles of riding untracked and 5 miles of trail to get to it and get back down for a total of 10 trail miles.

When other guys had their side panel open to let clutches cool their oil level was about the same as mine so I don't have much reason to believe anything is wrong with my sled, but I was pretty shocked to calculate the ratio at 19:1

I'll gladly keep the oil tank full to avoid engine issues, but it is disappointing that the oil consumption is on par with sleds from 10+ years ago, sure, the 850 doesn't smoke like my 2007 Arctic Cat, but it uses just as much oil, maybe more, I never checked the oil/fuel ratio on that sled...

I'd even bet that my carbureted 1997 Arctic Cat 580 Powder Special uses less oil than my 850.


Some use even more oil like those who get 40 to 50 miles per tank. The 800 ETEC would take as much oil in relation to fuel consumption, but the fuel consumption at wot was less than the 850 due to having smaller cylinders. The 800R PTEK was also drinking lots of oil with the highest oil consumption I remember being 12:1. It was a little too high as per the oil cable measurement of 9mm, but the owner learned from his forum buddies that any more oil than 40:1 made no sense. So he turned it down to 40:1 and soon after he was looking for a new bottom end. The moral of the story is to pay close attention to fuel consumption and the type of riding.

In your case you were riding roughly 35% trail and 65% off trail which figures into the 19:1 average. So the 65% off trail was a lower ratio than 19:1 (more oil), and on trail it was higher ratio (less oil). The lower the mpg the lower the Fuel to Oil ratio.
 
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summ8rmk

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Some use even more oil like those who get 40 to 50 miles per tank. The 800 ETEC would take as much oil in relation to fuel consumption, but the fuel consumption at wot was less than the 850 due to having smaller cylinders. The 800R PTEK was also drinking lots of oil with the highest oil consumption I remember being 12:1. It was a little too high as per the oil cable measurement of 9mm, but the owner learned from his forum buddies that any more oil than 40:1 made no sense. So he turned it down to 40:1 and soon after he was looking for a new bottom end. The moral of the story is to pay close attention to fuel consumption and the type of riding.

In your case you were riding roughly 35% trail and 65% off trail which figures into the 19:1 average. So the 65% off trail was a lower ratio than 19:1 (more oil), and on trail it was higher ratio (less oil). The lower the mpg the lower the Fuel to Oil ratio.
There is a design flaw with the engine if it must run 19:1 oil ratio to survive.
For comparrison;
My 09-2014 cats run 30:1 oil ratio when averaging 5.5mpg (4,000+miles like that)
My 18 Ctec 2 is 48:1oil at 5mpg average it has 900miles.

The 850 may need 19:1 to survive? If that is true, definitely a design flaw. Sounds more like a 4stroke design with a single pass lubrication system.


 
S

snobyrd

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Nov 27, 2007
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Don't forget about the lower clutch temps they also hyped for the '17.

Why don't they still have those selling points in their sales literature for the 18's?

Iv been sledding for many yrs, always read the brochures on all the new models, and one common factor about BRP is, false or missleading info. Back in the early 90s they had Thier summit lineup, claiming to be light, they were tanks, compared to the ext 580s. Made claims about ther 800 etech being 164 HP when in reality, they were 155 ish, only to claim Thier new 850 was 10 HP more at 165, low oil consumption is another misleading fact that they claim, I refuse to support a company that sells propaganda, I always buy based on real world facts and observations, I'm not brand loyal and at times settled for a little less HP for lower cost of ownership, and in some years , I'd have to pick my poison, cause they all sucked.
 
D
May 24, 2012
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There is a design flaw with the engine if it must run 19:1 oil ratio to survive.
For comparrison;

My 09-2014 cats run 30:1 oil ratio when averaging 5.5mpg (4,000+miles like that)
My 18 Ctec 2 is 48:1oil at 5mpg average it has 900miles.

The 850 may need 19:1 to survive? If that is true, definitely a design flaw. Sounds more like a 4stroke design with a single pass lubrication system.



I'm not sure why you didn't mention the CC, but from ~5 mpg I will assume you meant an 800 for both the TBI and C-TEC2.

I know that some Arctic Cat TBI and Polaris CFI 800s have been known to sip oil, but they also didn't last. The Arctic Cat TBI is a lot different as it uses fuel to cool the base, but it struggled to meet the EPA. Then came the C-TEC2 which fed premix in the injection rail. It's a brilliant technology, but that also means it has two more oil feeds. So now your talking nearly 50:1 @ 5 mpg. First time I hear this and the great majority of owners cannot give both numbers, but I appreciate for sharing.
 
D
May 24, 2012
277
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28
Iv been sledding for many yrs, always read the brochures on all the new models, and one common factor about BRP is, false or missleading info. Back in the early 90s they had Thier summit lineup, claiming to be light, they were tanks, compared to the ext 580s. Made claims about ther 800 etech being 164 HP when in reality, they were 155 ish, only to claim Thier new 850 was 10 HP more at 165, low oil consumption is another misleading fact that they claim, I refuse to support a company that sells propaganda, I always buy based on real world facts and observations, I'm not brand loyal and at times settled for a little less HP for lower cost of ownership, and in some years , I'd have to pick my poison, cause they all sucked.

"Made claims about ther 800 etech being 164 HP when in reality, they were 155 ish, only to claim Thier new 850 was 10 HP more at 165"

The 800R ETEC has always been shown to be 147 HP on the Rotax web site.
 
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summ8rmk

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I'm not sure why you didn't mention the CC, but from ~5 mpg I will assume you meant an 800 for both the TBI and C-TEC2.

I know that some Arctic Cat TBI and Polaris CFI 800s have been known to sip oil, but they also didn't last. The Arctic Cat TBI is a lot different as it uses fuel to cool the base, but it struggled to meet the EPA. Then came the C-TEC2 which fed premix in the injection rail. It's a brilliant technology, but that also means it has two more oil feeds. So now your talking nearly 50:1 @ 5 mpg. First time I hear this and the great majority of owners cannot give both numbers, but I appreciate for sharing.

Yes, both 794cc.
I measured every oz. of oil i used for 850miles, i was concerned about longevity with the engine using about half as much oil. Not concerned anymore.

 
M
Feb 7, 2009
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Iv been sledding for many yrs, always read the brochures on all the new models, and one common factor about BRP is, false or missleading info. Back in the early 90s they had Thier summit lineup, claiming to be light, they were tanks, compared to the ext 580s. Made claims about ther 800 etech being 164 HP when in reality, they were 155 ish, only to claim Thier new 850 was 10 HP more at 165, low oil consumption is another misleading fact that they claim, I refuse to support a company that sells propaganda, I always buy based on real world facts and observations, I'm not brand loyal and at times settled for a little less HP for lower cost of ownership, and in some years , I'd have to pick my poison, cause they all sucked.

I completely agree. Although I caved this year when I bought my left over 17 summit.. but it was way too good of a price to pass.

I remember the marketing people saying at the reveal that it was better than the 800etec in oil consumption. Then after the spring order date passed they say it wouldn't be better but on par with the 800.. so far I think I'm going through a lot more gas and oil than my old 800 etecs.
 
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