Hidden Gems Wilderness Update,

Sean Thanks for all your hard work

Visited the White River Alliance website. Looks great. It also builds confidence in the outdoor enthusiast "world" to see the strength we have as a collective group. The website is well organized and presented very well.

Thank you Sean again for your hard work.

Q

Website looks great. Keep us in the loop!

I just went on to the whiteriverwild site and it is pretty shocking how much land in colorado they are trying to lock up....this is scary. And they have a automated form letter function so people living in big cities far away from colorado can send mass emails in support of this BS. I live in Vail and these people are trying to change our way of life.

I just wrote a letter and emailed it to Local senator Polis, and U.S. Senators Bennet and Udall. it was so easy to go on their websites and send an email. hopefully if many people do this it will help. And hopefully when you get the website all finished it will make it even easier! Website looks good!

As I sit here and read Bushy's post all I can do is smile and nod my head YES, YES, YES!!

You are so correct.......logging, mining are very well managed at present time and current roads in the BC need to be managed better not deleted!

Our forest service, and BLM mgmt. people have responsibilities here also but, that platform would be a tough sell.

Anyway just a plug for you ole buddy!!

Bushy for Pres!

Q

Love seeing well educated people post on this subject. I am an (average joe) with little education on environment impact studies. But I do love my sport and the lands we ride on, we as snowmobilers get to see these lands from a view that few ever get to see them, which could make other jealous. I do appreciate the words that the educated people on this site post and I do hope that they are heard loud and clear. This is a subject of discussion in our group just about every day and will be.

What I did on my summer vacation....as president First I repealed the Wilderness Act and restored those lands for public use, then I instituted a government buy back program for old polluting sleds like mine :beer;:beer; Q, and props to Sean and Kristy for their hard work, and well thought out approach to fighting back. Great job on the website!

Bush- That post was the best I've read yet (from 4 different sites). We definitely need input like this in our letter generations, mailings, etc. In my (humble) opinion, we need to lay down some 'basics' on the justifications for our fight. From your earlier post, it definitely gives some ideas of where to start and our fundamental challenge to this plan.

Bushy, that is a well thought out rebuttal to the proposal put forth by Hidden Gems. I think you should remove the barbs against the hippies and send it to the editors of the mountain newspapers. I think you have gracefully put into words what a lot of us are feeling. And it doesn't hurt that you have an ecology education to back your opinion.

Go Bushy Go!!!

Damn Paul, I am impressed with your post. I can't seem to really get my thoughts to look good in print. Well done! :beer;

el Presidente'

I agree, Paul is a lot smarted than he lets on.
But a good guy, none the less.

Dang Bushmaster. That's pretty good stuff.

You ever done any research on bioremediation, as in the biological breakdown off unburnt hydrocarbons? Be interesting to hear you take on it.

It'd be interesting for someone to actually, pin a number to what percentage of the NF, actually ever sees a snowmobile track. Right down to the percentage of real coverage.

You should write that up, and get it printed. At least in the snowmobile groups rags.

dragon12 said:

Bushy, that is a well thought out rebuttal to the proposal put forth by Hidden Gems. I think you should remove the barbs against the hippies and send it to the editors of the mountain newspapers. I think you have gracefully put into words what a lot of us are feeling. And it doesn't hurt that you have an ecology education to back your opinion.

Go Bushy Go!!!

Click to expand...

What barbs? lol

Thanks for the props guys. Maybe I will send it in to the hippie press, a little toned down of course. Guess staying up late and consuming mass quantities of beer aren't all bad:beer;:beer; until morning! lol Like many of you, there doesn't seem to be enough hours in the day to get everything done. Most days consist of just getting the essentials done, and it's tough to get enthused at the end of the long day about much else than having a few beers and getting ready to do it all over again. I admire people that have the mo-jo to just keep going and going. Figure I'll be retired in 15 years or so and then I can do all the stuff I don't have time for now. Repeal wilderness acts, ride from my house to the Snowies, shoot a huge bull, get more involved with my sledder community, etc. etc.!!! Think i'll concentrate on the last two for now though Keep at it folks and pitch in when you got the gumption

From Wade

You ever done any research on bioremediation, as in the biological breakdown off unburnt hydrocarbons? Be interesting to hear you take on it.

It'd be interesting for someone to actually, pin a number to what percentage of the NF, actually ever sees a snowmobile track. Right down to the percentage of real coverage.

You should write that up, and get it printed. At least in the snowmobile groups rags.[/QUOTE]


Some of my Army Enviromental (strange combination of words I know) contract research is with wetlands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wetland) and while it's not my emphasis, wetlands are a great natural "filter" for many of the pollutants introduced into the environment. Some microbes just love gasoline/oil, and pretty much any other un-burnt hydrocarbon we set afloat. This article discusses the use of engineered wetlands to deal with un-burnt hydrocarbons. http://www.onepetro.org/mslib/app/Preview.do?paperNumber=SPE-111515-MS&societyCode=SPE Though I haven't seen the research on the natural bioremediation of non-specific point source un-burnt hydrocarbon pollution (un-burnt two stroke oil sprayed out with exhaust along the trail) I would be phenomenally surprised if such minimally concentrated expectorants survive the trip through the vast wetlands filtration system that are inherant to our high mountain riding areas! Let's go test the waters of Grizzly Creek where it enters N. Park! Other than beaver fever, I bet it's cleaner than the chit coming out of your tap. And there's the rub. It's about scientifically collected data. They ain't got chit, but then again, neither do we. I've checke out some of their studies and they wreak of researcher induced bias. To get the big picture you wouldn't sample for unburnt HC's in MC lot would you? No, you'd go downstream from MC lot a few miles and see what UBHC's survived the trip through those festering swamps!

Short answer, the earth has it's means of taking care of products of the earth (anything we make). That's not to say we can't overload the systems that protect us, but it's certainly within our means to manage our waste products and keep the water clean. My work with the Army and other DOD agencies has been very positive. Of late, they have worked hard to be a model of environmental stewardship while still being capable of taking care of business on the battel-field.

In my line of work i see REAL environmental hazards that are dealt with, with relative ease, so these piddling issues from the extreme leftists simply make me laugh. I know it shouldn't, as I see areas shut down to us all the time. That's very real! But it concerns and perplexes me that such hog-wash is allowed to influence the political process to such an extent that our simple freedoms are under fire from these people. Do they not see the big picture? That our minor impacts are a relative dribble in the bucket of our larger problems? Why are their efforts directed at us? I jump to the conclusion that they are not ignorant of the minimal impact we motorized users really have on the environment, and they are just selfishly trying to grab up all the land for their personal use. Maybe I over-estimate their knowledge in the field of ecology?

Maybe my conclusions are conveniantly flawed for my own purpsoses? But I don't think so. I observe my surroundings and the density of users. I see how much oil is spit out, how many pine trees are pruned and how many people use the area, and I don't think it amounts to much of any great load on the earth. The pines will get over it, the thinning promotes forest health in our fire free stands, and the oil will get et up by the microbes that are waiting in the thousands upon thousands of acres of wetlands we ride atop.

The trail out of Grand Lake may be different as far as density goes, but I bet the water flowing off the trail is clean as a whistle when it gets there. (a turn of phrase, i'm sure a whistle is dirtier!)

No, I haven't done the testing and research, so I can't blow the whistle on this argument of their's. Give me 50 grand and run it through the U and I could present a thorough data set that would get to the bottom of the un-burnt hydro-carbon issue. No, I don't make a third of that, but da man has to be paid! and he makes a good wage for riding hemmerhoids and pushing that pencil. lol He can have that job, I wouldn't do it for the kinds of bootllicking headaches he has!

My problem is the politics. You can have all your ducks in a row and they can blow you out of the water anyway. Politics is like fashion; it's whim and whimsy. Facts don't mean squat; what's popular is all important and the politiciens will follow that carrot like a mud butt bull to cow-tang. (how did the bull get that mud butt? he sat and shat of course) but that's a different observation. lol

To have the political saavy to go up against these professional liars and succeed would require that you cross the line into their realm. Where politics is concerned you can never be true to your ideals and succeed. Compromise enters the equation and there the muddy butt road begins. To enter that "world" requires of one to forsake many of the qualities one reveres.

Better to maintian your "integrity" let the liars steal and just ride what is allotted to you? I'm happy enough with what I have I spose, though I do feel for my brethren down on the over-population corridor where the idiots are pushing their idiotic dogma in the name of ecosystem protection.

You guy's are all-right! This political fashion of the day will nibble away at our lifestyle, but we won't go under. We are strong in numbers, though maybe too principled to involve ourselves in their dirty politics, and thus relegated to suffer some back-slides. A lot of peeps love to motorize in the outdoors and many more couch riders are sympathetic to our cause.

As a result of my employment I know many "greenies", but they don't overtly begrudge me my right to recreate as I see fit. They trust I'm not against them or the envirnoment; I simply have a different interpretation of fun. I realize they have a pre-disposition against RPM's and whining motors, but that's an aesthetic condition that can be smoothed over. I guess I do compromise some. I allow them their beliefs and they put up with my motorhead mania. In fact, most of them realize the benefits of the intenal combusiton engine, but they do have a strange guilt that compels them to moderate their use of the tools that have propelled them to their success. Self loathing, I suppose. lol

Understand that the "fight" is not so much against our fellow citizens, but against perception that it's an "us against them" philosophy. In my day to day dealings I make it clear that I'm not against them. Rather, I'm with them for the most part. We're all in this together whether we like it or not. You can rail against the "machine" of societal whims, but in the end your still right there, standing next to your brother man. Hate him or love him, he is your dilemma. You know that we're all nearly 99.9% identical in genetic make-up. Strange how that 0.1% leads to such incredible diversity of personality and individualism. Celebrate it! Your one of the few who lives to sled and take on the vast expanse before us.

Appreciate what you have and what our great country affords you. You don't like it, move to Europe where sledding is done in sand-boxes in Norway.

I'm not saying we should roll over and giggle while they tickle our land away, but gain some perspective and rationally deal with this problem. Get involved with your local, state, and national sled club's and be prepared to compromise some in this Political quagmire we call a society of people. Fail to join and continue to reject the ideas of your bretheren and you relegate your wishes to the shat pile and all we will be left with is to ride is that mountain of shat.

Here's to all of us getting what we need to keep on keeping on Damn, another morning that will come to soon for an old fawker!

Wow.........I would like to meet you some day Bushmaster,

I always found it rather odd that some humans are so concieded to think they can actually control the planet. Really .............?

I just dont get where these people think they came from. No matter if your beliefs are held in some deep religious affilation or not fact is we have been on this planet a looong time. We have been burning chit to stay warm and eating meat since the start, yeah I said it we kill things and eat them!

Somehow along the lines folks started dancing in circles which led to some strange feeling of refinement. Sitting in a Starbucks drive though in your subaru is somehow green.

Folks forget what our for-fathers faced. While this may be a little off the topic, it relates to these extreme groups.

Meanwhile the republic of california burns and burns. Poorly managed holy grail wilderness ? weird.............. who would have guessed ?

I really enjoyed reading your posts Paul, Well put !

Bushmaster said:

What barbs? lol

Thanks for the props guys. Maybe I will send it in to the hippie press, a little toned down of course. Guess staying up late and consuming mass quantities of beer aren't all bad:beer;:beer; until morning! lol Like many of you, there doesn't seem to be enough hours in the day to get everything done. Most days consist of just getting the essentials done, and it's tough to get enthused at the end of the long day about much else than having a few beers and getting ready to do it all over again. I admire people that have the mo-jo to just keep going and going. Figure I'll be retired in 15 years or so and then I can do all the stuff I don't have time for now. Repeal wilderness acts, ride from my house to the Snowies, shoot a huge bull, get more involved with my sledder community, etc. etc.!!! Think i'll concentrate on the last two for now though Keep at it folks and pitch in when you got the gumption

Click to expand...

Bushy, some of your best material comes from staying up late and consuming mass quantities of beer. ***Cough Cough forum t-shirts*** :face-icon-small-hap

I am not in CO but just sent emails to all the Reps/Commisioners/Congressmen listed on website Sean & Kristy setup protesting any more closures. Even though I don't live there I believe you can voice your concern about the proposed closures. After all I use this area a lot and don't want to see anymore land tied up. Everybody get on board and send those emails or call, remember the squeaky wheel gets the grease! A large volume of complaints will go a long ways towards getting this problem taken care of.

Everyone should get involved because we need to remember these are national lands not just Colorado lands.

I'm going to make it even easier for you to comment. This link will take you directly to the comment section of his webpage! Please take 5 minutes of your day it could make a difference!

http://bennet.senate.gov/contact/

http://markudall.senate.gov/?p=contact

Sample comment it's not pretty but it's better than sitting on your couch doing nothing!

Please vote against this closure of lands to our local Colorado people. We enjoy our freedom in this great beautiful state that's why we live here. The middle class support this state and that's the kind of people i run into while using the land that's available to us. As a Colorado taxpayer and voter I want to encourage you listen to the people that live here and keep these areas open for us.