Ford F150 3.0 Powerstroke Diesel ???

christopher · Aug 20, 2018

NorthMNSledder said:
I really think you need to stop worrying so much about these numbers and start test driving.

Because on numbers alone a 2018 Ram 5.7L Hemi has more torque then an Ecoboost at 410 vs 337 but actually towing with the two would give you a very different impression and I doubt that anybody who has towed with both would pick the Hemi over the Ecoboost.

Just saying that these numbers can say lots of things but none of that matters when you are actually hooked to the trailer running down the road.

For the MOMENT, all we have to play with are "The Numbers" till we get some REAL WORLD towing done.

If you have a fully loaded 4 place enclosed sled trailer, head over to your dealer and ask him to let you take one out and do a nice hill pull and report back.:face-icon-small-hap:face-icon-small-hap

NorthMNSledder · Aug 20, 2018

christopher said:
For the MOMENT, all we have to play with are "The Numbers" till we get some REAL WORLD towing done.

If you have a fully loaded 4 place enclosed sled trailer, head over to your dealer and ask him to let you take one out and do a nice hill pull and report back.:face-icon-small-hap:face-icon-small-hap

I did that two years ago. But instead of a fully loaded 4 place I used a fully loaded camper as that was a bit heavier then the sled trailer we had (6,000 lbs for the camper and only about 4,000 lbs for our sled trailer at the time. Inline 27' aluminum enclosed). And instead of the Ford Half ton Diesel it was the Ram Ecodiesel. In the end I settled on a 3/4 ton gasser as the best of everything that fit my needs. And in a very close 2nd place was the F-150 Ecoboost. The Ram Ecodiesel was high on list when I started looking but after getting a chance to tow with it I never thought of it again. Yes it had better MPG then everything else. And that is pretty much where any advantage ended. The Ecoboost had better power then the 3/4 ton but the 3/4 ton being much heavier was much more solid towing when the winds picked up or if the loads got heavier. Like others have said, The 3.5 Ecoboost will far outperform what the rest of the truck can handle weight wise. If there would have been an Ecoboost F-250 I would have most likely ended up with that.

At the end of those 4 months what I thought would work "by the numbers" was a total letdown when I actually got to tow with it. But that is why I said don't worry so much about the numbers. :face-icon-small-win

christopher · Aug 20, 2018

NorthMNSledder said:
If there would have been an Ecoboost F-250 I would have most likely ended up with that.

Would be sweet if they offered the Raptor EB in the F250

tadder52 · Aug 20, 2018

What exactly changes between the "Raptor" EcoBoost and the F150 EcoBoost?

kiliki · Aug 20, 2018

450 hp and 510 tqftlbs on the raptor and 375 hp and 470 tq on the 150.

volcano buster · Aug 20, 2018

Christoper,

You are missing the point of that FFFLLLLAAAATTTT torque curve of the EB. Curve is kind of a misnomer. That stupid thing pulls like a freight train for a long time, then with the 10 speed you aren't caught between gears. The Diesel is providing a peak spike with a definite curve on either side of that.

When towing a fully loaded trailer at work (4000# but visually looks heavier), I can set the cruise at 65+ mph going down the interstate. It will downshift a little and keep pulling any of the grades. It is fun watching people change lanes thinking they are going to pass me on the hill. I let them think that until they get along side the door, then downshift one and walk away from them.

christopher · Aug 20, 2018

volcano buster said:
Christoper,

You are missing the point of that FFFLLLLAAAATTTT torque curve of the EB. Curve is kind of a misnomer. That stupid thing pulls like a freight train for a long time, then with the 10 speed you aren't caught between gears. The Diesel is providing a peak spike with a definite curve on either side of that. .

There is no missing that.
The Diesel is very specific where it peaks and the EB has a WIDE sweet spot.

tadder52 · Aug 20, 2018

kiliki said:
450 hp and 510 tqftlbs on the raptor and 375 hp and 470 tq on the 150.

Sooooooo........................... So any internals? Or just timing and fuel games? If so, I know exactly which one I want.......

christopher · Aug 20, 2018

tadder52 said:
Sooooooo........................... So any internals? Or just timing and fuel games? If so, I know exactly which one I want.......

Isn’t the raptor motor a V8?

tadder52 · Aug 20, 2018

christopher said:
There is no missing that.
The Diesel is very specific where it peaks and the EB has a WIDE sweet spot.

I love laying on that boost and not having to shift. That's where the FI motors shine and the NA motors, yes, even the big blocks, just don't have the super wide torque band and needs to turn the Rs to make the power.

That's what it comes down to whether FI gasser/diesel or NA gasser: does that extratransmission shift or two that comes with the latter and the noise (and perceived strain) of the higher Rs bother you.

If not, the bigger 6.0s 6.2 motors are great. If you want a motor that doesn't give off those screaming notes of high RPM to make the power, FI is the winner.

Second note:
You'd be surprised what a dealership will do to get your business. Heck, go so far as asking to drive a year old truck that is "about" what you want to hook onto that trailer of yours. Are you gonna get apples to apples? Meh, close, green apples to red apples.

I do believe we're close to seeing the bottom of prices and sales for trucks. The dealership I just bought this truck from wanted to get my old truck so bad, they let me take the I ended up purchasing for a weekend. I told him I was taking my lab and he rides in the back seat and I didn't want to be disrespectful to the guys that need to clean it up. Salesman's response: No problem -- throw a sheet down to help. My guys will clean it up. It was spotless 48 hours from the time I dropped if off after the weekend when I went and signed papers.

christopher · Aug 20, 2018

tadder52 said:
I love laying on that boost and not having to shift. That's where the FI motors shine and the NA motors, yes, even the big blocks, just don't have the super wide torque band and needs to turn the Rs to make the power.

That's what it comes down to whether FI gasser/diesel or NA gasser: does that extratransmission shift or two that comes with the latter and the noise (and perceived strain) of the higher Rs bother you.

If not, the bigger 6.0s 6.2 motors are great. If you want a motor that doesn't give off those screaming notes of high RPM to make the power, FI is the winner.

Second note:

.

I do believe we're close to seeing the bottom of prices and sales for trucks.

Don’t know about one specific category of vehicles but in general I think we will see more aggressive deals as we move into fall this year

94fordguy · Aug 20, 2018

There's a whole lot to be said about real world feel in what can sway a decision. For that matter, the difference from one identically equipped truck to another can be a huge difference. I was given a 2002 V-10 to drive as a company truck last winter, keep in mind I owned a 2002 V-10 for 7 years so I was extremely well experienced on how my V-10 reacted under different driving conditions. The only difference between my V-10 and the company V-10 was that mine was a Crew Cab Lariat with leather and the company rig was an extended cab with cloth... if anything my crew cab was a heavier truck and had 1 size taller tires than stock, the company rig was bone stock, and both trucks had 170,000miles on them. There's no doubt in my mind, my V-10 would outrun the company V-10 so bad it wasn't even in the same time zone, it was amazing. Two identical trucks in terms of engine and running gear, yet mine literally felt like it had an extra 100HP under the hood. My friends and I have experienced different variations of this test driving different trucks over the years, some make good power, while others just make noise... identical trucks. Drive a couple different versions so that you know what you should be getting.

tadder52 · Aug 20, 2018

christopher said:
Don’t know about one specific category of vehicles but in general I think we will see more aggressive deals as we move into fall this year

My fear is this whole spat between China and USA is going to keep the new vehicles HIGHER priced. Which where people that want to buy new and keep if for a long time will see the prices and see a year old truck or hold over and settle with a much lower price that isn't exactly what they want.

I hypothesize that The Big Three will take this as an opportunity to purge all their old inventory (which has been building up) and to force people into the newer generations of rigs. Which in turn, puts money into the dealer pockets, by all but forcing, people into dealership mechanics due to all the electronics.

Call me a conspiracist or that I have an inherent distrust of government and corporations. I just feel that there is positioning going on behind the scenes that make me sit up a little straighter and listen a little harder.

boondocker97 · Aug 20, 2018

There's virtually no used trucks on the two Ford lots in our area. Doesn't seem to be a shortage of 2017+ trucks on the road either.

MountainCat1 · Aug 20, 2018

The Ford Ecoboost is an impressive powerful half-ton truck; I drove a friends this week-end & Wow; Empty it would probably win a drag race over my Ram 3500 Cummins at 425 hp & 930 torque. I would still rather pull my 28' Mirage sled trailer with my 3500 than the F150 in the winter even though that trailer loaded is only about 6500 lbs. That impressive twin turbo V6 F150 got me to thinking though, what would a small block Chevy V8 with twin turbos or a supercharger be like?? Only ~$7000 add-on with more impressive performance in either a half-ton or better yet a 3/4 or 1 ton chaises.:juggle:

christopher · Aug 21, 2018

tadder52 said:
My fear is this whole spat between China and USA is going to keep the new vehicles HIGHER priced. Which where people that want to buy new and keep if for a long time will see the prices and see a year old truck or hold over and settle with a much lower price that isn't exactly what they want.

I hypothesize that The Big Three will take this as an opportunity to purge all their old inventory (which has been building up) and to force people into the newer generations of rigs. Which in turn, puts money into the dealer pockets, by all but forcing, people into dealership mechanics due to all the electronics.

Call me a conspiracist or that I have an inherent distrust of government and corporations. I just feel that there is positioning going on behind the scenes that make me sit up a little straighter and listen a little harder.

Completley understood.
I base my comments on the financial side of the equation and not on manufacturing or trade.

Since early spring there has been a growing negative trend in Auto Loan defaults and late payments. More and more people are getting later and later on monthly payments and credit defaults are slowly but steadily rising. This is also putting pressure on growing vehicle inventories.

This combination, in the past, has led to more agressive marketing campaigns.

Now, that might not have any impact on our beloved pickup trucks. but in general for the industry, it could be a buyers market.

christopher · Aug 21, 2018

MountainCat1 said:
The Ford Ecoboost is an impressive powerful half-ton truck; I drove a friends this week-end & Wow; Empty it would probably win a drag race over my Ram 3500 Cummins at 425 hp & 930 torque. I would still rather pull my 28' Mirage sled trailer with my 3500 than the F150 in the winter even though that trailer loaded is only about 6500 lbs. That impressive twin turbo V6 F150 got me to thinking though, what would a small block Chevy V8 with twin turbos or a supercharger be like?? Only ~$7000 add-on with more impressive performance in either a half-ton or better yet a 3/4 or 1 ton chaises.:juggle:

For pure DRIVABILITY, the F150 wins hands down.
For pure TOWABILITY, the F250 wins.

And there in lies my troubles!!:face-icon-small-hap:face-icon-small-hap

tadder52 · Aug 21, 2018

christopher said:
For pure DRIVABILITY, the F150 wins hands down.
For pure TOWABILITY, the F250 wins.

And there in lies my troubles!!:face-icon-small-hap:face-icon-small-hap

How many miles a year total?
How many miles a year towing?

boondocker97 · Aug 21, 2018

I know I personally will give up a little comfort on the daily miles to avoid those butt pucker moments towing on the worst roads I'll drive all year. The F-150 seat won't be as comfortable anymore after there's a hole in it from clenching! Ask your dealer if warranty covers that! haha

Ford has the base curb weight listed for a 2018 F-250, Lariat, 4wd, 6.7 diesel, 6.5' box as 7264#. A 2018 F-150 in the same configuration with the 3.0 diesel is 5320#. All that extra heft you're pushing around eating up gas mileage daily driving the F-250 finally becomes helpful in the winter months. Friction Force (F) = Friction Coefficient (U) X Normal Force (N). This is a very basic equation and determining the friction coefficient between a tire and wintertime road surface gets pretty hairy with all the factors involved. Assuming that stays the same for both trucks, you're left with the normal force (weight of the truck on a flat surface) to govern the friction force between the tires and the road surface. If you want to look at the ratios of friction forces F-250:F-150 you end up with (U X 7264)/(U X 5320) = 1.365. So the F-250 is going to have 36.5% more traction just based on weight than the F-150.

If I was towing a 28' sled trailer in adverse conditions with the F-150 I'd invest in a dedicated set of winter studded tires for it. Maybe even for the trailer.

christopher · Aug 21, 2018

tadder52 said:
How many miles a year total?
How many miles a year towing?

How many miles a year in BLOWING SNOW

How many miles a year on ICY HIGHWAYS

The overwhelming vast majority of my miles are NOT towing.
I can not make the case for the Bigger Heavier Truck based on USE.

But I tell ya what, there is nothing like the pucker factor of getting BLOWN off a highway with a 28ft trailer behind you going over Snow and Ice to WAKE YOU RIGHT UP on a long trip.:face-icon-small-hap

Ford F150 3.0 Powerstroke Diesel ???

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