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Raze motorsports

Raze Moto

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May 23, 2016
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www.razemotorsports.com
Threaded bar inserts & right side heat

They are designed to work with thread in insert hand guards yes.
The throttle side runs the same tempurature as the clutch side.
Whatever the engine tempurature is running at with the flow control valve all the way open is the tempurature of both grips.
 
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screech

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2009
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So with your design you have a flow valve that you can slow the flow? Not sure I would want to stop the flow of my bypass out of my thermobob. Maybe have a tee on the bypass with two valves?
 

byeatts

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Premium Member
Nov 29, 2007
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They are designed to work with thread in insert hand guards yes.
The throttle side runs the same tempurature as the clutch side.
Whatever the engine tempurature is running at with the flow control valve all the way open is the tempurature of both grips.

then I will likely purchase the bars , great idea an innovative
 
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brojoe

Member
Jan 12, 2011
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How do we go about getting pricing and possibly purchasing the bars?
 
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Rush44

Well-known member
Nov 26, 2007
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Flathead Valley, MT
Nice idea with the bars. I look forward to hearing some reviews for the upcoming season. Anything that doesn't require addition to the electrical system is awesome.
 

Raze Moto

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May 23, 2016
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Sorry man we've been crazy busy trying to get ready for haydays. We are currently building a dealer network underneath us. With that being said our retail price is higher then what dealers will probably be offering the kit for. Our retail price that will be released Saturday at the show is 495.00 for the kit. We do have some discounts for our racer program as well.
 
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brojoe

Member
Jan 12, 2011
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Why do you need a thermostat for the heated bars, if you have a valve to controls the flow/heat?
 

wwillf01

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Heber Ut
You need a thermostat to get the coolant warm on powder days most likly they have a way that it diverts the coolant .

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 
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screech

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2009
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You need a thermostat to get the coolant warm on powder days most likly they have a way that it diverts the coolant .

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

The thermobob uses a bypass for when it's shut and I'm assuming they are just routing said bypass on their thermostat to the bars.

I have been in contact with them and they are supposed to be testing a thermobob set up to make sure it has enough back pressure to flow thru the bars. I don't see why it wouldn't but I am anxious to hear if this will work or not.
 
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madmini660

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2008
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lewistown mt
Sorry man we've been crazy busy trying to get ready for haydays. We are currently building a dealer network underneath us. With that being said our retail price is higher then what dealers will probably be offering the kit for. Our retail price that will be released Saturday at the show is 495.00 for the kit. We do have some discounts for our racer program as well.

Are there any dealers in Montana u say they will be cheaper from dealer, if so can u let me know im building a snowbike now
 

byeatts

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Nov 29, 2007
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The thermobob uses a bypass for when it's shut and I'm assuming they are just routing said bypass on their thermostat to the bars.

I have been in contact with them and they are supposed to be testing a thermobob set up to make sure it has enough back pressure to flow thru the bars. I don't see why it wouldn't but I am anxious to hear if this will work or not.

I also have a Thermal bob and wood like to add the heated bars.I,m ready to purchase if it all works ok?
 
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powderlites

Well-known member
Nov 26, 2007
638
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Sicamous, BC Canada
www.powderlites.com
ECU's

Anyone run anything from them?



Snowbike, truck or sleds?

4ae04051d867f993894bbb227991c4de.jpg
We are running these ECU's on Skidoo 1200, 900 turbo kits and soon will be on Maverick X3 side by side as well.
We will have KTM and Yamaha ones soon.
www.powderlites.com
 
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AKdragon700

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2008
152
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Fairbanks, AK
KTM ECU

Will the KTM ECU have to be a full replacement because the locked status from KTM? With the "trash the hassle" statement I take it you will not be doing any re-flashes or add-ons to the stock ECU

I've been trying for two years to get a Euro Map or any unlocked map put on my KTM 500 so that I could use my ignition advance switch.

Will this allow the use of a ignition advance switch?

http://www.trailtech.net/electrical/ignition-map-switch/040-hms-a3a

Do you adjust AFR with the use of a weld in 02 Sensor like the Dobeck kits?
 

Raze Moto

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May 23, 2016
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Man to answer these 4 questions properly you'll get me talking for days. If you want to call in it might be better. Ill try to keep it as short as possible without rambling. I will be doing some tech write ups very soon on engine strategy comparisons. It is something that is never talked about, very few people quite understand, and is a missing link in the power sports world.
1. The Ktm "wingman kit" yes is a full ecu replacement. The reason is because the stock ecu does not have what we need inside to run our engine strategy. Re-flashing a stock ecu limits us to finding the hidden A2L files and adjusting some fueling and timing numbers. At the end of the day we are still running an oem factory strategy based on emmission compliance and margin of error from the end user using a broad range of fuels. Not a full blown high tech race strategy.
2. Our ECU comes with a switch that mounts on the clutch side of the bars. We use this switch for many different things other than timing.
3.On the Wingman kit we send the ecu switch to enable/disable aggressive/normal tune map. This is not like your standard husky ktm settings. There is a noticeable difference and makes the bike more trail able on the lower setting. Especially if you are in icy conditions on a snow bike the lower setting is desirable. We use a strategy in our engine strategy loop called feed forward knock control. There are 2 ways to implement feed forward knock control in an engine strategy. 1 way is with a knock sensor. The other way is by watching the speed of the crank teeth going past the sensor. We don't have a knock sensor on a dirt bike so we refference the speed of the crank tooth pattern. At 1000 times a second we are looking at both sides of the crank teeth. We apply as much timing as the engine will take until we see a tooth hesitate. That lets us know if we are creeping up on knock. Long story short depending on the fuel you are running that day your timing curve is going to be as aggressive as the engine can handle always dynamically changing, without ever harming it.
4. We use a weld in 02 sensor, but in an extremely different way than the general public or any aftermarket fuel box. We use it to cross reference our oxygen density calculation on the intake event and verify what happens on the back side with the 02. We do not offer a gauge. At 10,000 rpms the engine has 83 combustion events happening per second. Our ecu monitors the 02 sensor 1000 times per second. No human eye could ever properly tune watching an 02 gauge. Even if you were superman and could it would be a weak strategy. Using an 02 sensor should be used as a verification only done with the ecu at a high rate. Keep in mind not only can the human eye not read the number for a single cylinder motor 83 times a second think about trying to keep track of a multi cylinder engine. Every cylinder burns different. The gauge also is an average number. If the gauge displayed a real life stream it would just look like a blur. This is Not something to base an engine calibration strategy off of with an ecu or manually with a gauge.
When trying to calculate fuel volume its all about calculating the oxygen density.
Most ways out there is whats called a speed density strategy. They take the CCs of the motor, at x rpm, use some average number for oxygen content, look at the intake air temp, reference the requested torque from the rider through the tps sensor and fuel it. That's the stock ECU. Then there's the aftermarket fuel box. These things are looking at the 02 sensor to see if the motor is lien or rich and constantly adjusts the fuel based off of what has already happened. We call it chasing your tail. Nobody rides at a consistent rpm or load. The 02 reading is forever moving and changing. Trying to calculate the volume of fuel based off something always changing after it has already happened multiple times per second is a poor strategy and doesn't take much common sense to understand why. In the professional racing world you will never see a strategy like this being implemented. It'd be equivalent to being in a fight blind folded and moving your head and body after you already got hit. The only way to see whats coming and accurately respond with the correct fueling for every combustion event is by calculating the density of the oxygen in the unit of air coming in. You can then apply exact fuel volume which in return results in maximum torque, crisp throttle response, and extended engine life because all combustion events are on target. Your not trying to fix something that has already happened and is now changing in another direction. In order to calculate the oxygen density we look at the volume of air via a mass air flow sensor or speed density hybrid strategy if we don't have one, we then references a barometric pressure sensor that is built into all of our ecus, map sensor, and intake air temp sensor. It runs through a math equation and we fuel each individual combustion event based on the almost exact oxygen density calculation we have. The only thing we are missing is our weather station set up communicating to the ecu wirelessy as its running looking at humidity etc.. but that's a little overkill for a dirt bike. Back to the 02 sensor. We use the 02 sensor to verify our calculation is on target. As the engine wears out, turbo fails, boost leaks, sensor failures, the 02 sensor will pick up on the changes and our mapping will adjust to stay on target. This is a very simplified reply of a look at just one simple area of our strategy. Feel free to call into the office to talk to me, the strategy mastermind Rob, or tom about mechanical s anytime for a more in depth look at what we do. We are always here to help. I hope this answers your questions without rambling too much.
 
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