BDX oil delete, Caused 09 M1000 crank seize in 950miles running 40:1

WyoBoy1000 · Jan 25, 2010

To all the post I said I never had a problem, this is a direct result of the bdx oil delete. Just letting you know.
Put it in to there specification, no added oil tube or way get the required amount of lube to center of crank and it dried out center crank bearing and locked them up. Kinda BS. I figured they would know best and would have givin the info needed to do it right but guess not. Even though in the long run its my fault.

Sure liked the way it ran with the oil delete (till Now) But
The other thing that pi$$es me off is the fact I had to put it on because the AC oil injection was sticking and making my sled bog. with it off in my hand I can feel it sticking in the middle and can actually set it in the middle stuck.
BS call to AC on that one.

I ussually ran the sled fat on bottom to make sure it got plenty of oil but recently added a PCIII with the slp programing and it cleaned it up a bunch off bottom and may have caused it but maybe not.

You have been informed, don't be dumb like me. add a way to get oil to the center of crank.

snowmobiler · Jan 25, 2010

center crank bearings are lubed through the hole?

M1000Mod162 · Jan 25, 2010

Wow man thats a bummer deal! I had a simmilar deal happen last year only my waterpump/oil pump shaft broke in two and took out the center mag beiring and the copper spline shaft on my crank but i didint thing to blame it on the oil delete! I had about 1200 miles on it with the oil delete when that happened. Now you have me worried

swashbukler · Jan 25, 2010

Oil delete

So whats the right way to do this drill cases or what? I have really been considering doing this but want to know what the right way to go about thanks

smoothdawg · Jan 25, 2010

Same thing happened to us last year Wyoboy. The BDX kit only lasts when you relocate the oil lines on the bottom of the motor like Shain Stanger does. I have rebuilt 2 M1000 motors with good luck. Buy a reman crank from AC, it will be cheaper in the long run. They are around 800.00, maybe less from a sympathetic dealer. Sorry for your trouble. May as well add the extra motormount and torque stop while you are at it. JMO.

M1000Mod162 · Jan 25, 2010

im confused how would drilling the cylinders help the problem

AaronBND · Jan 25, 2010

Researching and putting a lot of thought into doing the BDX oil delete kit myself a few weeks ago, I honestly think you had trouble because we need to mix a stronger premix than BDX recommends. Maybe like 32:1 instead of 40:1. Looking at the pictures below of a M1000 case, you will see that the center section where the waterpump shaft is, is completely sealed off by the inner crank bearing seals. In the second picture, I also marked where the oil ports are on the outside of these seals in the case, to lube these inner crank bearings. You can also see in the second picture where these holes literally drop premix right into the bearings. In the second picture you can see where the seals ride in the case telling us that no premix can get in or out of that center section. This is why guys put the grease zerk in to lube the waterpump shaft. Honestly to me, it makes no sense at all drilling the cylinders to run premix down in this waterpump shaft section. How would the fuel part possibly get burnt? Engine heat evaporation? It sucks that it happened, but let it be a lesson to us guys that run it, to mix stronger than recommended.

smoothdawg · Jan 26, 2010

Mix it 20:1 and you will still have a problem. You drill 1 hole in the case not the cylnders. You run a line with the fittings you already have from the hole BDX wants you to plug to a spot in the bottom of the case where the oil pools and hook another fitting that you already have there with a clear piece of line in between. The vaccum will pull from the pooled oil in the bottom of the case to the other side. Don't believe me? Look at the clear line between the 2 holes.
Shain Stanger took the time to go over this with me in great detail at the begginning of the year and explained how this works. Keep in mind this is what they are doing on the Twisted AC kits with no problems at all. Just trying to help.

smoothdawg · Jan 26, 2010

If you pull the crank out you will see the hole BDX wants you to plug with their supplied bolt. That is where the brass gear is oiled from. There is even a line running from your stock oilpump right to it. Make sense now?
Ours stripped all of the teeth off of the brass gear and bent the oilpump\waterpump driveshaft about a half inch.
Ever notice whenever you split the cases on ANY 2 stroke there is always a puddle of oil in the bottom of the cases? That's where you get the small amount of oil for your brass gear when you drill and tap the hole. Hope this helps paint a clearer picture of what I was trying to say.

JHG · Jan 26, 2010

http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=166262

This is where the above pictures came from.

M1000Mod162 · Jan 26, 2010

so could you just run a oil line to that hole in the case where they want us to put the bolt and manually inject some oil to it every few rides or even every ride if it needed?

Vertical-Extreme · Jan 26, 2010

M1000Mod162 said:
so could you just run a oil line to that hole in the case where they want us to put the bolt and manually inject some oil to it every few rides or even every ride if it needed?

Yep you could do it that way if you didn't want to drill and tap your case, some guys have installed a grease zerk too. give it a couple pumps every so often. I drilled and tapped the case on mine. runs good.

mountaincat68papa · Jan 26, 2010

This is my 2nd season running BDX oil delete 40-1 no problems yet (knock on wood) Weren't there some stock 1000s looseing crank bearings?

BigAir · Jan 26, 2010

M1000Mod162 said:
so could you just run a oil line to that hole in the case where they want us to put the bolt and manually inject some oil to it every few rides or even every ride if it needed?

Yep, that is what I did. I add oil every ride. Maybe overkill, but I don't have to worry about it that way.

AaronBND · Jan 26, 2010

BigAir said:
Yep, that is what I did. I add oil every ride. Maybe overkill, but I don't have to worry about it that way.

Can you get a picture for us of your setup? I am trying to get to the bottom of all of this. By blowing up the upper picture (kinda grainy) you can see that those bearings could quite possibly be oiled by that inner cavity too. See the red circles in the picture where it looks like oil can get into the bearing? If this is the case, than greasing that gear would not be adequate enough in my book. Maybe drilling the case is the way to go?

backcountryislife · Jan 26, 2010

Ok, I've tried to look at this both ways & either way I don't get it.

IF the center is sealed (totally) then shooting some grease in there would solve the problem.

IF the center is not sealed, then we don't have a problem at all, the premix will get in there one way or another.

I have over 2k on one delete, 1k+ on another & 3500 on another. The only one I did anything extra for was the 2k one, I squirted a bunch of grease in the end & bottom with the assumption that it would be eventually washed away with premix, but if that was the case, then there would be premix in there.
I have never added another squirt to it, two years later.

Oh I also have a racer with a lot of miles on it, nothing was ever done to it.

WyoBoy1000 · Jan 26, 2010

40:1 is the right mix, and if you run enough in it can still get by the seals and into the center of the case, but if you tune it to run clean(lean) at some point it will dry out and it wont get enough into the center. Remember this happened after I put on a PC III witch cleaned up the map. I am thinking of putting the oiler back on and run the lines that go to the intake boots back into the oil tank and run 40:1 in the tank. This way I am still getting the consistency of a 40:1 mix to the pistons and the correct amount to the bearings and water pump. and adding a spring to keep it from sticking. does anyone see why this wont work. I don't care about the weight as much as the I do how it runs, the 3.2lbs is worth reliability.

I pulled the motor and handed it to my dealer. his estimate is $1600 with AC crank exchange. His work is top notch but you pay for it.

bgreen776 · Jan 26, 2010

The labrynth seals leak enough gas/oil to lubricate the gear and bushing in all but the rarest cases (ie, the few failures we see on this forum and others). If they didn't you couldn't have guys like wyoboy1000 and the hundreds of other customers that have installed the bdx oil elimination kit per bdx instructions, without ever having trouble. People have been eliminating their oil injection on these sleds since the day there were first released. Greasing helps, porting the case helps, but if the tolerances between the pump shaft and the bdx bushing stack up wrong your likely to have a failure.

Here are some pictures of the case porting that the old man did on his Turbo HCR and the porting I am doing on my M1000.

http://picasaweb.google.com/akfabshop/THCR?feat=directlink

http://picasaweb.google.com/akfabshop/OilDeleteMods?feat=directlink

and a link where aaron and I have been discussing some of the same things you guys are talking about in this thread.

http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=200209

AaronBND · Jan 26, 2010

WyoBoy1000 said:
I am thinking of putting the oiler back on and run the lines that go to the intake boots back into the oil tank and run 40:1 in the tank. This way I am still getting the consistency of a 40:1 mix to the pistons and the correct amount to the bearings and water pump. and adding a spring to keep it from sticking. does anyone see why this wont work. I don't care about the weight as much as the I do how it runs, the 3.2lbs is worth reliability.

That is exactly what I am testing on the bench right now......I am going to try plugging the 2 ports that go to the intake boots for injection and see if it still pumps oil to the bottom of the engine by itself. I have to run and go get 2 short 6mm bolts to block off the holes. If this works, all guys would have to do is pull the banjo fittings to the intake boots and install bolts. They wouldn't even need to buy the BDX kit. If it works I will get a little oil bottle and just fill it once in a blue moon.

Going to plug these holes.

lynxer292b · Jan 26, 2010

This is just one of many that have done this. BDX makes BS stuff and it shows. Yeah some guys have gotten by half lucky. They probably bring the grandmas on trail rides too. The pictures above prove that the only way you can delete the oil injection safely is to regularily grease the shaft. The argument is that the grease can seap to the other bearings. Which is partially true. Seriously guys what do you gain by doing the delete?! not much. It is safer to just leave it and tell BDX to go fly a friggen kite

BDX oil delete, Caused 09 M1000 crank seize in 950miles running 40:1

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