How long before we have an electric Rocky Mountain King?

Jaynelson · Jul 10, 2018

As much as the electric/battery tech is evolving (which it is...faster than I ever thought)....I think a mountain sled application will be fairly far down the line. A few too many factors against - small market, cold temps, remote locations, constant load making re-gen not really a thing, yada yada.

I think once you see the auto manufacturers start realizing some economies of scale for battery/electric/solar part/systems it is going to spread like absolute wildfire. Ultimately it will mean less moving parts, better reliability and a host of other advantages. The biggest problem will be the power grid keeping up, but I think you'll see similar progress in solar tech helping a lot.

I LOVE my IC engines, but it's also exciting to think of new stuff coming down the pipe. Been camping a lot this spring/summer and you can really notice that solar power has started to replace generator usage for dry camping....set the system up once and you're good to go. No noise, no fumes, no digging out/hooking up gene....pretty sweet

BeartoothBaron · Jul 13, 2018

nregistered said:
I question that battery technology is ready for recreational purposes. Maybe controlled environments like closed course racing, hillclimb events, etc.

The current electric motos run less than 2 hours with minimal wheel spin programmed into them. Sleds spin tracks like crazy in comparison. Real world recreational riding, and I wonder if you'd even get an hour on the trails, and 1/2 hour off trail. I see they're promising a lot more from the Taiga. I wonder if they control track spin in relation to forward momentum? That would work on the trails, but not off-trail.

I'm all for it once they're ready. But I also don't think the USFS will re-open any lands that are currently closed. Noise and pollution are just easy targets. The real reason for land closures is people who can't co-exist.

But, but... their bumper stickers! Surely they can't hate sledders! I watched the video about the Tiaga, but I don't remember any claims about the conditions. I do remember most of the video involving snowpack and/or ice. I've got a feeling deep snow use would be like the old Top Gear Tesla test, with performance drop-off and endurance that doesn't live up when you push it hard.

Scott said:
Ok, I do understand what regenerative breaking is. I get that.
Who says that we have to do it that way?
I want to know more about the drive shaft spinning and powering a charging system.

That sounds more along the lines of a hybrid system; I was just thinking about a pure electric system. Definitely some significant differences there. With an automotive hybrid system, typically you just need enough battery to accelerate a car to highway speed to be effective, maybe a few times over (educated guesses here) – far less battery than a pure electric vehicle, anyway. That could benefit in some types of riding: tree riding and other tight terrain come to mind. In that scenario, you'd mostly be using the engine to charge the battery though, with the electric piece giving you an instant burst of power. Long, sustained runs and climbing are another story. Maybe just my thinking, but I'd say any riding with sustained WOT would only be weighed down by hybrid components. Some mixed riding could benefit, but it's hard telling how narrow a range we're talking about. Makes me wonder if any manufacturers have tried it, and if so, what they found.

diamonddave · Jul 14, 2018

Scott said:
Ok, I do understand what regenerative breaking is. I get that.
Who says that we have to do it that way?
I want to know more about the drive shaft spinning and powering a charging system.

Could you explain what regen breaking is?

I think it may be quite different from regen braking.

Sorry couldn't resist.

Trashy · Jul 14, 2018

That’s when the sled breaks, but then puts itself back together again.

For example, Polaris needed regeneration for the pistons in the 800 Dragons.

Sorry, I had to.

Scott · Jul 15, 2018

Haha.

Big10inch · Jul 15, 2018

If you want a full electric, I think we are a ways off yet simply due to weight. Take the battery from the small Nissan leaf, 648 lbs, which is half the weight of a Tesla battery with 1/3 the capacity. What we need for a sled is the equivalent energy to 10-12 gallons of gasoline. Just like the electric car needs to carry that amount of energy. The leaf with a small gas engine and 10 gallons of gas would go further for sure than it does on a 648lb battery.

The battery alone would have to weigh as much as a Yamaha sled to get the power reserve we are used to, especially since sleds spend way more time wide open than road cars.

The batteries are going to have to get a LOT lighter for this to be viable IMO.

summ8rmk · Jul 15, 2018

Forget the battery....
Use a flux capacitor with plutonium as the energy source for the electric motor.
Just make sure u never hit 80mph!

Big10inch · Jul 15, 2018

summ8rmk said:
Forget the battery....
Use a flux capacitor with plutonium as the energy source for the electric motor.
Just make sure u never hit 80mph!

Pretty sure it takes 88 mph to engage the flux capacitor....

mountainhorse · Jul 15, 2018

88 Jig-a-watts!!

.

joshkoltes · Jul 16, 2018

that first video is unlistenable

heres audio I can understand!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwZbvPY_4aE&t=1s

you can hear it top out in the straights but its real quick in the corners!

this kinda thing will keep my coal mine pumpin!

Scott · Jul 16, 2018

You silly dudes.

In order to travel through time, the vehicle integrated with the flux capacitor needed to be traveling at 88 mph (140.8 km/h), and required 1.21 gigawatts of power (1,210,000,000 watts), originally supplied by a plutonium-powered nuclear reactor.

cascadesnowjunky · Jul 16, 2018

Or everytime we stop for a rest break or lunch we just get out the trusty old extension cord and plug them into a current bush for a quick charge.

Dartos · Jul 16, 2018

I don’t see an electric mountain sled anytime in the next 10 years.

As a side note the electric car at pikes peak may have been impressive but that race lost 99.9% interest for me when they paved the road to the top.

Teth-Air · Jul 17, 2018

I want a perpetual motion motor please. Actually getting serious I would like 2 light weight motors. One in the place of the drive axle and one in place of the rear skid axel. Spread the weight and distribute the drive forces. No ratcheting expected even with massive amounts of torque. Nothing but batteries and controller under the hood, not even a chaincase.

Would be nice to have real weights, wet, dry, call it whatever because no weight difference charged or dead. No spare belts to carry, not much for tools I hope, and no spare gas/oil to carry. Maybe a spare battery for emergencies??

Just like electric cars in cold climates I worry about battery performance and would we be reluctant to turn on the heated grips and thumb warmer? Maybe those motors would need jacketed cooling that we could take advantage of?

Regenerative braking would not help too much as sleds come to an abrupt stop pretty quick in deep powder.

Possibly fuel cell technology would be more feasible? Convert a fuel to electrical power. Darn that the current technology produces water that will freeze.

jegster · Jul 17, 2018

They said heavier than air vehicles couldn't fly. Took awhile, but that obviously did not hold true.
Might take a while, but I bet someone can figure out a way to get enough energy stored to power an electric sled with performance everyone is familiar with.

summ8rmk · Jul 17, 2018

Does anyone on here realize how big a 150hp electric motor is?
The ones i have dealt with are all 3phase 480v and well over 500lbs

Sheetmetalfab · Jul 17, 2018

summ8rmk said:
Does anyone on here realize how big a 150hp electric motor is?
The ones i have dealt with are all 3phase 480v and well over 500lbs

Ummm industrial AC yes.

DC is totally different.

Take the tiaga sled for instance.........

flatspeed · Jul 17, 2018

Not my vid

https://youtu.be/eBQU8EEmO6U

Also electric motor power to weight ratios are insane:

http://emrax.com/products/emrax-228/

Approx 70hp continuous and 130hp peak hp weighing less than 30 lbs.
It's just the batteries that are the limiting factor at this point.

I think a hybrid (for performance, not for saving the planet) might be feasible..

Prayn4snow · Jul 17, 2018

There are some very good points on here. Yes battery technology has advanced very quickly in the public world. Before I retired from the military, they were using some pretty cool tech long before it hit the consumer market. One of my friends just retired from the battery world (ex military). He helped design batteries for future cruise missiles, torpedos, and other stuff he couldn't talk about. He said "10 years" and you will be amazed where we (consumers) could be.
He said the other thing a battery powered sled could have a "very small" light weight inverter gas powered generator with a 1 gal gas tank that could keep a charge on it while riding, resting (lunch), getting cats and Doo's unstuck

and would keep the battery pack warm.
Time will tell.
DC motors power trains carrying iron ore pellets here in the U.P. Crazy how much power they can make.
Something about a 2 stroke though....

Scott · Jul 18, 2018

Prayn4snow said:
There are some very good points on here. Yes battery technology has advanced very quickly in the public world. Before I retired from the military, they were using some pretty cool tech long before it hit the consumer market. One of my friends just retired from the battery world (ex military). He helped design batteries for future cruise missiles, torpedos, and other stuff he couldn't talk about. He said "10 years" and you will be amazed where we (consumers) could be.
He said the other thing a battery powered sled could have a "very small" light weight inverter gas powered generator with a 1 gal gas tank that could keep a charge on it while riding and would keep the battery pack warm.
Time will tell.
DC motors power trains carrying iron ore pellets here in the U.P. Crazy how much power they can make.
Something about a 2 stroke though....

The technology is it there and perfected way before it becomes common knowledge or available to the consumer.

How long before we have an electric Rocky Mountain King?

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