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850 big bores? No talk all season about them?

J

JJ_0909

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...This is the only programmer we sold over the past season and it does not modify the stock ECU, marker or fingerprint free....

We with huge expense and frustration replaced all of the PCV's with our own version Dobec fuel programmer to ALL of our customers that had an issue.

...The best Snowmobile Turbo Companys out there today utilize this type of programmer for there kits for a reason....

Stop spreading false information.

1) There is no marker or fingerprint on the ECU when you flash (or rather, reflash back)

2) We ran dobec controllers. They aren't so awesome.

3) Nobody else runs a reflash because its outside the realm of most snowmobile companies. Most mod companies are fabricators and show brilliance (yourself included) with manufacturing cool stuff. They aren't programmers, which you need to be to pull off a reflash. (in fact you need to be a very good programmer)

You talking about a reflash is frustrating because it shows how little you know about what that even means, being you are talking about something you've never done, you've never engineered, and you've never played with (you can't). Silber has done both, used a control box, and used a reflash. There is a reason Silber went with the flash. It works better.

Keep talking crap about the company, that's fine. Just do it without stating things that aren't correct. It does everyone a disservice.

Oh, and in the spirit of that I'll say a fuel controller absolutely CAN work fine. Its just not as dynamic or as agile as using the ECU as its slave to this device. Its second in line, not primary, as far as hardware goes. The ECU leads the dance, the controller just follows.
 

kanedog

Undefeated mountain clutching champ of the world.
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How many videos do you want? I've got a pile of them.

Jay & Blaine POV
https://www.facebook.com/SilberTurbos/videos/1615846781841475/ (that sound though... :) )

Lets start with one of Jay & Blaine NOT shot by me...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27Sxkx78J_A


Me...
https://www.facebook.com/SilberTurbos/videos/1695859543840198/
https://youtu.be/PxKPrZh_-fY?t=210

I've got a pile more if you'd like. I would happily post hours of raw footage to youtube too just so people can sift through and try and find a pop, a gurgle, a stumble...(there are none)

As a professional photographer, a lot of this banter reminds me of the "film is better" conversations in the early 2000s when digital was so clearly going to be the way of the future. Some got ahead of it (Canon) some didn't (Polaroid). Go ahead and look at the stock price of either, or better, go take a look and see what happened to Kodak, one of the biggest companies in their era.

You don't have to listen to what I'm talking about, you can just go jump on a reflashed mod sled. Its amazing stuff.
Your sled sounds really lazy. Backshift is horrible. It should be "right there" but it isn't. The sponsored Doo rider infomercial showed nothing exciting.
But that's not the topic. Engine performance is.

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kanedog

Undefeated mountain clutching champ of the world.
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Who is clutching and gearing these fine running machines? You suck.
Engine seems to run good but your missing 20% of available engine power.


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J

JJ_0909

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Your sled sounds really lazy. Backshift is horrible. It should be "right there" but it isn't. The sponsored Doo rider infomercial showed nothing exciting.
But that's not the topic. Engine performance is.

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LOL. That has to do with reflash how exactly?

BTW, I don't disagree that my clutching could be better on that machine. I swapped helix's later in the year, which helped, but it was pretty late at that point. Can't remember if that vid was before or after lowering the primary clutch finish rate and dropping weight.

Either way, clutching these 850s is a whole other thing, and something I won't pretend I'm some guru on. Goal was to set something up that didn't blow belt (it doesn't), held RPM (it does) and mitigated lag (its not bad).
 
M

mach11998

Member
Oct 29, 2009
15
14
3
My Sylber 850 adventure!!


after 3 month trying to make it run at sea-level



-BLOWN ONE ENGINE ON 120 RACE FUEL!!!

-TURBO EXH WHEEL TOO SMALL!!! HAVE TO REPLACE IT

-INJECTOR TOO SMALL WITH THE TUNE HAVE TO PUT BIGGER ONE
-FUEL PUMP TOO SMALL HAVE TO REPLACE IT
-ADD FUEL REGULATOR TO GET 1-1

-INTERCOOLER IT IS A MUST TO MAKE IT SURVIVE AND NONE AVAILABLE



NO COSTUMMER SERVICE!!!!!!


THE ONLY GOOD THING ON MY ADVENTURE .....THEY REFUND ME THE COST KIT!!!!! AT THE END OF THE SEASON


Going back with trygs stuff!!!


max
 

kanedog

Undefeated mountain clutching champ of the world.
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LOL. That has to do with reflash how exactly?
Engine is lazy too. That's how. Sounds like bwaaaaah bwaaaaah when it should braap braaap.
Now plug my words into your next reflash and see how you do. LOL

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J

JJ_0909

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Oh and that first video of Jay was my cut - I just gave him my gimbal in January and watched as he did his "how does he do that" thing on the mountain. Was rad. But wasn't some Ski-Doo advertisement.
 
J

JJ_0909

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My Sylber 850 adventure!!


after 3 month trying to make it run at sea-level



-BLOWN ONE ENGINE ON 120 RACE FUEL!!!

-TURBO EXH WHEEL TOO SMALL!!! HAVE TO REPLACE IT

-INJECTOR TOO SMALL WITH THE TUNE HAVE TO PUT BIGGER ONE
-FUEL PUMP TOO SMALL HAVE TO REPLACE IT
-ADD FUEL REGULATOR TO GET 1-1

-INTERCOOLER IT IS A MUST TO MAKE IT SURVIVE AND NONE AVAILABLE



NO COSTUMMER SERVICE!!!!!!


THE ONLY GOOD THING ON MY ADVENTURE .....THEY REFUND ME THE COST KIT!!!!! AT THE END OF THE SEASON


Going back with trygs stuff!!!


max

Wow, sorry to hear that Max.

I just checked my email, I don't see any emails from you.

What you describe is not normal, though sea level does add an additional variable in that wastegate performance needs to be verified. Did you ever put a boost gauge on it?

Either way, sorry to hear of your experience, had you shot me an email or called I absolutely would have responded and done whatever we could have to get you taken care of.

Hope you have a better experience with the 927!

Best
Jeff
 

kanedog

Undefeated mountain clutching champ of the world.
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Oct 14, 2008
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LOL. That has to do with reflash how exactly?

BTW, I don't disagree that my clutching could be better on that machine. I swapped helix's later in the year, which helped, but it was pretty late at that point. Can't remember if that vid was before or after lowering the primary clutch finish rate and dropping weight.

Either way, clutching these 850s is a whole other thing, and something I won't pretend I'm some guru on. Goal was to set something up that didn't blow belt (it doesn't), held RPM (it does) and mitigated lag (its not bad).
Great job on the clutching. With the 850 if you can prevent blown belts you are doing good. Love the light spring light weight direction.
I don't believe that either of you have a bad product. The issue is the 850 engine harmonics that vibrate these engines, electronics and wiring to self destruction. Imagine what harmonics can do to a delicate injector.
Food for thought-Go outside to your car and remove a front wheel. Now put washers on 3 studs in a row. Reinstall wheel.
Drive down freeway. Feels like the car is going to vibrate itself into pieces. Wheel is crooked. Crooked wheel no good.
Wobble clutch is doing the same exact thing except that the engine is also made to run out of balance on purpose by Brpoutine engineers.
Imagine, if you will, making your engine run out of balance, on purpose, only to be corrected by your crooked, vibrating wheel on the car. Drive it with wobble wheel for a year and your car has now mechanicly ate itself from the inside out and is junk. Just like the 850 engines and pdrive clutches. They don't last nearly as long as expected. Like 75% less. The Pdrive was touted as lasting forever but it needs a rebuild in 2000 mountain miles. The engine was gonna last 10,000 miles and it now maybe lasts 2000 mtn miles. It could be even a combo of the engine harmonics and pdrive wobble. If I owned this company, I would welcome the first day 850 warranties start to expire.(I wouldn't truthfully be happy but you get the picture). Now the customer pays for everything and I get to sell them the parts. There can be no argument from the customer because the warranty is expired. It's ugly but that's how she goes. It's not the dealers fault.
Wobble engine+wobble clutch=vehicle self destructing harmonics. In the 80's Yamaha had a harmonics issue as stated by Olav Aaen below. History repeats itself I guess.
I hope Arctic Cat takes a huge chunk of market share in turn giving Brp a huge kick in the butt to dump this 850 chassis/pdrive platform and do some much needed engineer housecleaning. Way too many engineering issues to ignore.

I am available for a Brp/Kanedog Mountain sled team up to dominate the mtn segment on the next Brp platform. I test and tune at 5000ft till June every year if Brp wants to expand to mountain testing from parking lot testing. No charge for showing you the dumb engine/clutch/harmonics problem by the way. Give my 250k/year engineer salary to local sled clubs to help keep areas open so Brp can continue to sell more sleds. Come with me Brp! I can show you a better way!
Love, the always entertaining & sometimes over the line, Kanedog.

These are my beliefs.

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d25afa629d954687bd8d7a82f4bc034e.jpg
 
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J

JJ_0909

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Great job on the clutching. With the 850 if you can prevent blown belts you are doing good. Love the light spring light weight direction.
I don't believe that either of you have a bad product. The issue is the factory vibrating 850 engine that vibrates these engines and wiring to self destruction.
Food for thought-go outside to your car and remove a front tire. Now put washers on 3 studs. Reinstall wheel.
Drive down freeway. Feels like the steering wheel gonna come off.
Wobble clutch is doing the same exact thing except that the engine is made to run out of balance on purpose by Brp poutine engineers.
Imagine if you will, purposely making your engine run out of balance, on purpose, only to be corrected by your crooked, vibrating wheel on the car.
Wobble engine+wobble clutch=vehicle self destructing engine harmonics. In the 80's Yamaha had a harmonics issue. History repeats itself I guess.
I hope Arctic Cat takes a huge chunk of market share in turn giving Brp a huge kick in the butt to dump this 850 chassis/pdrive platform and do some much needed employee housecleaning.



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Thanks for this.

Cat has a hell of a product. Brand perception is what it is, and it'll take a bit for them to take the chunk out of the market they should on performance alone. I know if I were to pick any sled at the moment it'd be a Cat.

I'm going to an 840 only testing reasons. I think Cat is building a rider's sled, if you will, through and through.
 
M

mach11998

Member
Oct 29, 2009
15
14
3
Wow, sorry to hear that Max.

I just checked my email, I don't see any emails from you.

What you describe is not normal, though sea level does add an additional variable in that wastegate performance needs to be verified. Did you ever put a boost gauge on it?

Either way, sorry to hear of your experience, had you shot me an email or called I absolutely would have responded and done whatever we could have to get you taken care of.

Hope you have a better experience with the 927!

Best
Jeff

That your phone

320 282 6812 ??

That the Guy im Talking the last winter
 

dave@trygstadmotorsports

Well-known member
Premium Member
Oct 20, 2012
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www.trygstad-motorsports.com
My Sylber 850 adventure!!


after 3 month trying to make it run at sea-level



-BLOWN ONE ENGINE ON 120 RACE FUEL!!!

-TURBO EXH WHEEL TOO SMALL!!! HAVE TO REPLACE IT

-INJECTOR TOO SMALL WITH THE TUNE HAVE TO PUT BIGGER ONE
-FUEL PUMP TOO SMALL HAVE TO REPLACE IT
-ADD FUEL REGULATOR TO GET 1-1

-INTERCOOLER IT IS A MUST TO MAKE IT SURVIVE AND NONE AVAILABLE



NO COSTUMMER SERVICE!!!!!!


THE ONLY GOOD THING ON MY ADVENTURE .....THEY REFUND ME THE COST KIT!!!!! AT THE END OF THE SEASON


Going back with trygs stuff!!!


max

5) Please explain how your big bore setups or the 850 requires additional fuel management beyond the capability of the ECU?! You are suggesting Ski-Doo missed something in their design of the control unit, which is a very big claim, especially considering how evolved that control unit is. The amount of air entering the manifold will be consistent across the throttle bodies, hence, the amount of air entering each cylinder will be consistent. This means the amount of fuel per cylinder is also....consistent! On the exhaust side we have a single pipe, so EGTs will be representative of an average of both cylinders. Point is, how can you tell one side is lean, or one side is rich due to air intake inconsistency as you are suggesting? There simply isn't data to suggest this (inconsistent volume of *air* cyl/cyl)

These guys have no idea why the same cylinder fails on there turbo kits and other 850's that have the power enhanced.
 
Last edited:
D
May 24, 2012
277
96
28
My Sylber 850 adventure!!


after 3 month trying to make it run at sea-level



-BLOWN ONE ENGINE ON 120 RACE FUEL!!!

-TURBO EXH WHEEL TOO SMALL!!! HAVE TO REPLACE IT

-INJECTOR TOO SMALL WITH THE TUNE HAVE TO PUT BIGGER ONE
-FUEL PUMP TOO SMALL HAVE TO REPLACE IT
-ADD FUEL REGULATOR TO GET 1-1

-INTERCOOLER IT IS A MUST TO MAKE IT SURVIVE AND NONE AVAILABLE



NO COSTUMMER SERVICE!!!!!!


THE ONLY GOOD THING ON MY ADVENTURE .....THEY REFUND ME THE COST KIT!!!!! AT THE END OF THE SEASON


Going back with trygs stuff!!!


max

Your Silber 850 adventure near Sea Level has been corroborated by others. It is unfortunate that you didn't find those owners who understood how to make it work before giving up. As a hint, whatever concepts work for NA also work for a Turbo.



As you saw from a couple members on this thread, we are still in a system of flexing muscles by putting down the other guy. For this reason we avoid being forthcoming and keep more than one ace up our sleeves. And that also includes PMs as we have no idea who is messaging us. I am often surprised how many games are played over personal messages, so I avoid those as well, unless the subject is already well established on the forums. The turbo two strokes including the Silber 850 are still kept at arms lengths with many unanswered questions.


It is often a wonder how far folks are willing to go to put down others who have been in the field for decades, and even more shocking how some are somehow magically enlightened that they are willing to go head to head against the manufacturers with their claims of them being grossly incompetent. The moment I see those claims against either groups, their understanding becomes obvious.

While I would enjoy hearing what "could have' been done for you, I don't see how it would make a difference as your engine wasn't covered under any sort of warranty. I imagine that their tune will change over time for the simple reason that turbo two strokes is the waver of the future, but you're still stuck with forking out heavy dollars to repair a failed engine that didn't deliver anywhere near what it was promised.


Make no mistake, the game is Banter and discrediting the next guy. If you are good at the game, then you score points.
 

mtncat

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Finally {These guys have no idea why the same cylinder fails on there turbo kits and other 850's that have the power enhanced} just shy of 2000 miles and to date no cylinder failure on this 2017 TMS927, over 900 miles on stock ECU--- So it must not make any more power than a stock 850
face-icon-small-disgusted.gif
 
M

mach11998

Member
Oct 29, 2009
15
14
3
What i want to mention is:

When i work with Trygs he Know im at sea-level and we work together to make it fly !!! I remember im calling me at 22.00 hrs on saturday night to discuss about the testing Day

He test is product on the mountain but i Know at sea level it was différent game and is standing behind is custommer to make it happy!!!

I can said the same thing on Big John they sols me the silber kit Than they help me for the refund!!

Im fair with everybody they do the same with me !!

Max
 
F
Nov 26, 2007
584
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Minnesota
Finally {These guys have no idea why the same cylinder fails on there turbo kits and other 850's that have the power enhanced} just shy of 2000 miles and to date no cylinder failure on this 2017 TMS927, over 900 miles on stock ECU--- So it must not make any more power than a stock 850
face-icon-small-disgusted.gif











Funny thing about the truth, it eventually comes out.
 
D
May 24, 2012
277
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28
It's also easier than to fumble through the lies, especially those we tell ourselves :face-icon-small-ton


“If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything.”
― Mark Twain
 

kanedog

Undefeated mountain clutching champ of the world.
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So what is the truth?

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