"NEW M1000 MAPS WITH POWER COMMANDER V"

akholland · Dec 8, 2010

So I had a chance to dial my sled in over thanksgiving weekend at turnagain and got some numbers people were asking for. I used a PCV and had autotune make my map for me. Piston wash has ~3/4 inch wash and plug color is perfect. Cant hold my hand on the primary for more than 1 second after any hard pull. helped a lot putting side covers and mesh hood since i was burning belts like crazy. have zero spacers behind secondary. running Ultimax XS belt. I also uploaded my target a/f numbers below for the autotune. I'm concerned that it is pulling so much fuel from the map... but wash and plugs are good??? no idea whats up with that. my map was made after about 2 total hours of run time on the autotune. (ran it for 10 minutes, then updated initially, then ran longer between updating pcv with new map as it got closer to being tuned) Runs perfect, no flooding, hesitation, or bogs..

M1000 2008
stock ecu (no update!!)
Speedwerks pipe, ypipe, and can
0-3000 feet
Stock clutching (85 gram with purple spring) (soon to change) but it revs between 7650 to 7800 so i think its actually ok stock.. not sure?
Stock intake with Diamond S mesh hood.
162 sno pro.

andy
ydna7 at hotmail dot com

Would like to hear some other's experiences

11.26.10 turny pcv tune speedwerks 08 m1000.jpg

Offroad Engineering · Dec 9, 2010

Have you done any full throttle pulls to check wash? that seems pretty lean wide open for a long pull.

I'm running an SLP full exhaust, porting, and an intake and am still way too lean at 13.4 with 20-22% extra fuel up top, final number will be closer to 26% additional I suspect.

AaronBND · Dec 9, 2010

Do you have EGT's? I am just curious. It's seems really skinny in the 5200-5700 range. I actually just made a second map to put on my switch for trail running to the powder that adds quite a bit to this middle area. I was getting about 1260 and my numbers were all in the single digits in this area already.

akholland · Dec 9, 2010

egt

I have a set of koso egt's. It was a little lean on top at 7750rpm pulling. I believe I saw a 1350 max on a long pull and after that I put a few more points on the top. Midrange I'm between 900 and 1200 F, nothing huge. From what I understand these things have a rep for being lean in the midrange so yeah my numbers should have nuked this thing already but looks good inside (confused). I checked the wash after about a 1500' vertical pull up a mountain, that's when I noticed the 1350 and added a few fuel points to the top. everything looked good though when I did that. i think I will add fuel to the mid till i notice a bog and then lean her out a tad from there to be conservative.. more riding will tell...
anyone else with a speedwerks pipe come up with numbers for a 08 m1000?

Also to the guy who posted on here about his slp pipe, I am running a full speedwerks exhaust. The slp pip runs totally different fuel numbers and you should in no way fashion or form compare them to mine, that's asking for trouble.

Also speedwerks got back to my email and said to run their Y-2 weights 0-5000ft with the black h5 alloy primary spring I already have. I need to order them and get my rpm back down to 7600

Also unfortuately my air fuel numbers above are from SLP for their system. I need to get a set from speedwerks if anyone has any. not even sure if those are different.

Offroad Engineering · Dec 10, 2010

I understand that the slp pipe has a different tuned rpm, however the principles are the same and the target a/f ratio's are the same. It takes a certain amount of fuel at a certain air/fuel ratio to make a certain amount of horsepower assuming that your brake specific fuel consuption is similar.

If you are adding considerably less fuel then you are either running considerably leaner or you are making considerably less horsepower.

I'm not fashioning your numbers to mine, I have my own. I'm trying to help you understand where your numbers need to be, why they need to be there, and explain why they look like trouble

akholland · Dec 13, 2010

Offroad Engineering said:
I understand that the slp pipe has a different tuned rpm, however the principles are the same and the target a/f ratio's are the same. It takes a certain amount of fuel at a certain air/fuel ratio to make a certain amount of horsepower assuming that your brake specific fuel consuption is similar.

If you are adding considerably less fuel then you are either running considerably leaner or you are making considerably less horsepower.

I'm not fashioning your numbers to mine, I have my own. I'm trying to help you understand where your numbers need to be, why they need to be there, and explain why they look like trouble

I think your right when you said

"It takes a certain amount of fuel at a certain air/fuel ratio to make a certain amount of horsepower assuming that your brake specific fuel consuption is similar."

Which makes my numbers make a little bit more sense if you think of it in the respect that with the addition of a pipe, you lose some bottom end and gain some top end power. Therefore my reduction of mid range fuel number and addition of top end fuel numbers makes sense in my head anyways. Maybe SLP pipe makes more power in mid range than speedwerks, who knows. I hear that speedwerks pipe doesn't put more power than slp till you port it, then it works really really well.

akholland · Dec 28, 2010

dont know if anyone ran that map above but I eventually started pasting a piston after seeing a 1350 temp on a long pull. I'm now paranoid and set my max egt to 1200. that 13:1 a/f number wide open I am going to say was too lean for anything longer than a 8 second pull at wide open. I am now running my a/f targed wide open at 12.5 and getting much better results. Highest temp was 1207F.

AaronBND · Dec 28, 2010

You need to pull plugs and check piston wash to find out where your sled likes to run with nice brown colored plugs. Mine likes right at 1260 max temps. Anything above this they start going grayish. Find your sweet spot on your plugs and tune to it in the mid and upper range. Your numbers looked really skinny to what I run......I was nervous for you!

Aaron

akholland · Dec 30, 2010

funny thing is that I was checking my plugs and wash. plugs were a nice brown color and the wash looked lean (lots of carbon). maybe I didn't run it wide open long enough. I need to find a lake. Im now running a fatter map and still dont have much wash if any. How long does it take to change piston wash? It's been through a half tank of fuel around the house tuning.

akholland · Dec 30, 2010

by the way am I the only guinnea pig who uses auto-tune?

rigrat · Dec 30, 2010

How does it run?? I ordered the Autotune and Lcd 200 from Racinstation recently and am going to start with my stock pipe etc and go from there. My sled runs quite well right now but i am going to try the autotune with a close to stock sled just to see if i can improve on things. Once i get things figured out i will install twin pipes etc.

tchriste · Dec 30, 2010

akholland said:
by the way am I the only guinnea pig who uses auto-tune?

You're not alone on this, there are a few of us trying to get the best tune using the autotune, you're just brave enough to post. As Arron pointed out your numbers were thin from my point of view, however I'm not tuning a 1000. On my AFR I have nothing leaner than 14.3 and that is all below clutch engagement and as load picks up my AFR goes down. At WOT I'm running 12.9 with 1220* @ 3,500 ft on a lake with a 1/4 mile run in 2 feet of fresh snow @ -10*C. The big issue for me is to get the midrange worked out, I need to be able to ride trail to get to the play areas.

Some things to think about... pulling throttle and putting heavy loads on the engine.... when you let the throttle off you might want to have some of your lower throttle % at the same RPM have a fat mixture just to avoid leaning out too much.....On my map I added extra fuel to those areas as I had noticed temps go up when I dropped the throttle. To get on the lake and run the different % throttle positions to build a map is only one of the parts to think about....

I would like to suggest one other thing...go to the Speedwerx website and pull up one of their maps, just for some ideas......
good luck

akholland · Dec 31, 2010

m1000 2008 speedwerx maps

I think your right on the idle AFR. speedwerx had a map shooting for 14.9 below engagement and it's pulling fuel like crazy. (-25 ish) Thats from the a/f numbers from my first post. I didn't like it so yesterday I lowered them and interpolated a little bit so there werent as many jumps from like 14.9 to 14 in two cells right next to each other. I cant see how it can tune the motor to that kind of precision. That's probably where those auto tune fuel spikes come from like -25 +25 then -25. I dont get a good fuzzy feeling inside with those type of numbers. Take a look at the new numbers I came up with and maybe let me know what you think. I will definitely add some fuel at low throttle high rpm settings like you said. Autotune cant catch those and I've noticed some slp maps have like +124 in those places. other than that it runs good.

I ran up at lost lake in cooper landing. Good snow up there. With my current tune I max temp at about 1150 wide open so Im getting closer. Now I just have to get my clutching problems figured out. I eat one belt every tank of gas. its getting expensive. Speedwerx clutch kit is in the mail (light tip weights.. like 83.5 gram i think) supposed to get rpm down from 7750 to 7600, pray to god that helps.

2008 M1000 162
Diamond S mesh hood
Speedwerx full exhaust
Koso's
PCV with autotune
0-3000 ft
85g x 3 weights
purple spring
orange secondary with straight 38 degree helix

akholland · Dec 31, 2010

rigrat said:
How does it run?? I ordered the Autotune and Lcd 200 from Racinstation recently and am going to start with my stock pipe etc and go from there. My sled runs quite well right now but i am going to try the autotune with a close to stock sled just to see if i can improve on things. Once i get things figured out i will install twin pipes etc.

If someone gives you a map that is supposed to work with your sleds and your mods and your using it as a base map it works ok. Im not super impressed yet. It does work though. You just need to know the right air fuel targets which im slowly getting dialed in. Prepare to spend a lot of time and potentially money if your new to it. autotune on your stock pipe is a good idea. Get it to where the autotune doesn't change anything at all and then you should be able to tune the a/f numbers to what it was stock when you put your pipe on. I might try that. the lcd is sweet to have. i didnt want to fork out the 350 bucks.

akholland · Dec 31, 2010

by the way i just went to speedwerx.com and they only had maps for an m8 that was WAY different and didn't have any a/f numbers. could you post the site where you found their maps?
thanks
andy

tchriste · Dec 31, 2010

akholland said:
If someone gives you a map that is supposed to work with your sleds and your mods and your using it as a base map it works ok. Im not super impressed yet. It does work though. You just need to know the right air fuel targets which im slowly getting dialed in. Prepare to spend a lot of time and potentially money if your new to it. autotune on your stock pipe is a good idea. Get it to where the autotune doesn't change anything at all and then you should be able to tune the a/f numbers to what it was stock when you put your pipe on. I might try that. the lcd is sweet to have. i didnt want to fork out the 350 bucks.

I started my process of AFRs by setting the autotune up on a stock machine and playing with the numbers until I found things weren't changing much and went from there, that and started a post here which Arron stepped in and added good input to. Stock AFRs don't always work on mod engines and quite often one needs to step the AFR down to keep things together. I found stock 800 were running 13:1 at WOT with good colour and 1245* temps on a long pull....with my set-up 13:1 set off my ECU-23 and temps went over 1270 really quick.

Plug colour is something that is also subjective and hard to discuss....how light is light brown anyway....tan....wheaten....I have a dog that is wheaten/ tan in colour and if my plugs were that colour I'd be worried.

Speedwerx maps are 800 maps...the point was just to see some ideas with the mapping. I have done quite a bit of tuning on motorcycles with PC etc, however with a sled and the clutching, tuning is way different....one can basically draw a line from engagement to max RPM/max throttle and there is where one finds all the calibration requirements for the most part...as with all things there are variables that need to be addressed.

I should be getting my new computer soon and will be finishing my tuning in the field.

akholland · Jan 9, 2011

Does anyone have a air fuel table made up for their m1000 that works good? THe ones on speedwerxstore.com are too lean.

USe control print screen, paste into paint program, then save and upload onto snow west forum.

ALso does anyone know if anything special needs to be done around power valve opening for fuel?

Offroad Engineering · Jan 10, 2011

The stock map will typically compensate enough around the powervalves once you get close, but getting there can be painful since the powervalves open at different points in the map depending on throttle position and rpm.

I have been keeping my 100% AF target toward the low side of 12, like you said, any higher an it'll start smearing pistons on long pulls. Also make sure you add some fuel at high rpm/low throttle conditions so that when you let off at the top of a long pull you maintain some lubrication in the cylinders, I think I add 10% at 8k down to about 6.5k rpms for the 0, 2, and 5% throttle cells.

I finally bought a map from Racinstation and started tweaking it for my sled and mods, it wasn't perfect since I was ported but it was close enough to get it rideable and fine tune from there. He's already done the hard work and it's cheap, I'd suggest it

The autotune is a good way to take a baseline map and get it close to what you need, unfortunately it can't take the stock map with a full set of zero's and make a perfect map, its just too much for it. The best use for it that I've found is to take a baseline map, let autotune get it close, then start fine tuning the cells by hand until it's perfect. Baseline map gets you rideable, autotune gets you close, fine tuning gets you dialed.

Building maps is a time intensive, frustrating process, but once you're done you'll be glad it's dialed. I know we have different setups but let me know if I can help.

AaronBND · Dec 29, 2011

I know this is an old post, but I'm sure more guys are now running the Autotune and have some info to share to help others. I myself picked one up a couple months ago to play with and just got it installed. Our snow sucks right now though, so no testing yet. I am still running the '08 ecu and will be tuning for that box. I have a good baseline map to start with, but have made some more mods and need to fine tune now. I installed all of my AFR target numbers into my map last night and downloaded them into the sled. I have a sliding scale from 15 at idle to 12.8 at WOT with 13.7 in the mid-range where it get's hot running the trail between 5500-6000rpm's.

I think what I will do to get an idea of where I am with AFR target numbers is run it in that mid-range for a while and see what trims I get back from Autotune. The baseline map I have in there now has the plugs at a nice brown in this area. If it gives me numbers to add, I will know to start raising my 13.7 numbers up to maybe 13.9 to test again. If it wants me to subtract, I will know to go down to like 13.5 etc.. This should give me a good starting reference in the middle there and I will start my sliding scale up and down from there to idle and WOT once I nail this mid-section. Does this make sense? Any input from your experience?

Aaron

AaronBND · Jan 1, 2012

Did everyone give up on the Autotune?

"NEW M1000 MAPS WITH POWER COMMANDER V"

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