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07 rev 800 carb turbo build

C
Jun 7, 2016
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Ionia Michigan
Done a Lot of research and finally decided strap a gtx2860 on my extra sled I'll post pics as I go and except any information anyone has to offer. I'll also answer any questions I can to help someone else that might want to turbo older sled And wants to save time searching all the forums for old boring carb turbo stuff lol. This will be run in michigan so low elevation just an off trail play sled
 
C
Jun 7, 2016
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Ionia Michigan
It's a duel ball bearing turbo not sure if I wanna use the stock injection pump and then have to mix gas or I already have a graylor pump I could put in a restrictor. Not sure what I should go with I like the thought of not having to mix fuel but I would need some type of sensor to be sure my electric pump is working if I go that route. What do you guys think? or anyone used a graylor pump before? How long did it last I know cpi used them on there kits bit that was along time ago lol
 
C
Jun 7, 2016
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Ionia Michigan
After doing more research the gt2860 I was going to use will be to small for low elevation so I'm using the gt3076 I already have. I also decided to use the injection pump to supply the turbo with oil
 
X
Oct 8, 2009
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You should talk to bryce at turbo performance. He has turbocharged a lot of carb skidoo 800 sleds. He has been there, done many. I think his tag on snowest is brycter. Do not reinvent the wheel. R&D is expensive.

Next, if you are running an 800, why do you think a 2860 is too small? In my opinion a 3076 is to big based on the mass flow generated by that motor under boost. That will be really laggy. We can discuss more if you want. You need to size the turbine housing for your horsepower output target then size the compressor wheel to match the massflow rate of the engine. Race motors rarely run 3076 turbos unless it is used in drag racing with anti lag 2 step capability. Or, in chute climbing where slow throttle response can be dealt with.
 
X
Oct 8, 2009
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The standard gt3076 flows okay for the 800 at 14 psi with a 0.61 AR housing. The issue isnt the compressor flow, it is inertia of the wheel assembly. It is massive compared to a 28 series turbo which equates to lag. You get a similar mass flow on a 28 series turbo with a 0.86 AR. Also, the new gtx2867 gen 2 will outflow your gt3076 compressor wheel. So why go bigger? The only answers are a better map/emap pressure ratio and to scavenge more heat out of the exhaust. But, unless you run really high boost, that is unnesessary.

Let me ask...what power level do you want? Or, how much boost do you want to run? If your boost level isn't high enough to warrant the big turbo, your losing useability. Which is, in my experience, way more important.
 
As en ex-800 carb turbo owner I have a few words of wisdom I guess. First I'll start with, it was a happy day when I got rid of it lol. Don't let me deter you tho because boost is fun.

One thing I don't know about your build, is if you are planning on running race gas or not. In my case, I did not want to run race fuel so I had to put on an external waste gate to get the boost pressure down to 4psi (safe for pump fuel at sea level). I couldn't find an internal waste gate to get me down to 4.

Things maybe have changed a bit since I was doing carb turbo's but what are you doing to compensate for extra fuel when you hit boost? Powerjets, electronic fuel pump, and boost referenced fuel pressure regulator?

At the time I did mine, there was not many carb 800's running at sea level so I (with the help of CPI) had to do some figuring. I kept blowing my reeds apart from a lean back fire. I ended up using needle spacers from a Yamaha carb to get the right height.
 
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
C
Jun 7, 2016
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Ionia Michigan
Brad those reeds look melted probably from extremely high intake temps caused from to small of of a turbo. What size turbo did you have on your sled? Yess I already have an msd fuel pump, automotive return style fuel pressure regulator. I will be reference of the pipe l.

Here is a pic of the air box I built for my zx chassis if it will fit I will use it.

 
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C
Jun 7, 2016
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Ionia Michigan
The standard gt3076 flows okay for the 800 at 14 psi with a 0.61 AR housing. The issue isnt the compressor flow, it is inertia of the wheel assembly. It is massive compared to a 28 series turbo which equates to lag. You get a similar mass flow on a 28 series turbo with a 0.86 AR. Also, the new gtx2867 gen 2 will outflow your gt3076 compressor wheel. So why go bigger? The only answers are a better map/emap pressure ratio and to scavenge more heat out of the exhaust. But, unless you run really high boost, that is unnesessary.

Let me ask...what power level do you want? Or, how much boost do you want to run? If your boost level isn't high enough to warrant the big turbo, your losing useability.

I'm shooting for over 200hp or 10lbs I guess is my number I'm looking for
I found I thread where his bohn did a test using a 2860,2871,
the
2860 made 220 hp at 15psi
2871 made like 250 hp at 15 psi
2876 made like 300 hp at 15 psi

Now the 2860 had extremely high charge temps in the 200 degrees I believe now that leads to deto very fast.
That's y I'm going to stay away from the 2860 but I have my eyes on a 2871 .84 ar i know that my best bet but I have a 3076 just sitting bought and paid for lol
Thank both of you of the input anymore would be great. Not only for my benefit but others reading this
 

cubby

Well-known member
Premium Member
Nov 26, 2007
2,208
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No offense but for the others I think EFI is the way to go for turbos. Not many others left willing to deal with the head aches and lets downs and tow outs from a poorly running carb turbo. Now I'm not saying it can't be done, but just saying the newer iron is the way to go when it comes to HP
 
C
Jun 7, 2016
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Ionia Michigan
No offense but for the others I think EFI is the way to go for turbos. Not many others left willing to deal with the head aches and lets downs and tow outs from a poorly running carb turbo. Now I'm not saying it can't be done, but just saying the newer iron is the way to go when it comes to HP

To some those may be fighting words lol but I do agree efi may be easier but who don't like a good challenge? It's been done thousands of times what wrong with 1 more? I already have the sled and 90% of the parts. I can learn alot from this and others if I keep the thread going
 
X
Oct 8, 2009
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I am not knocking Gus's research, but I bet he did not use new gtx turbos. The gen2 gtx billet wheels will put the standard gt base compressor wheels to shame. For example, the new gtx 2860 gen 2 will flow nearly as much as that 2876 with a lot less inertia due to wheel size. At 10 psi, you will not need more than that. Also, if you go too big you will likely experience compressor surge since the compressor map is so narrow. The new gtx turbos have much wider compressor maps to limit surge at high pressure low flow. Keep in mind that weel size is irrelevant...mass flow is all that matters. All racers would run smaller turbos if they could get equivalent mass flow to their current setups. Why? Better transient response is more fun to drive/ride.

Most kits today run the gtx2860 gen 2. You can get more from a 2867 gen 2, but it is unnecessary. That turbo has a 550 hp spec compressor wheel which outlflows the capabilty of the turbine. The 28 series turbo cannot flow much more than 400 to 425 hp very well. The only reason to go to that turbo is to reduce turbo wheel speed for efficiency. For your target, I would stay with a gtx2867 gen 1 or go with a gtx2860 gen 2. If you were going to run big boost (15 to 20 psi), I would say run a bigger turbine like a gt 29 or a small AR gt 30 to decrease exhaust manifold absolute pressure and to reduce piston temp. You are nowhere near that, so excess wheel size will just make your sled lazy.

Also keep in mind that dyno numbers can be pumped up using correction factors. Most stated numbers are high. Focus on mass flow and turbine efficiency to optimize charge temp and performance.
 
C
Jun 7, 2016
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Ionia Michigan
Xpturbo600 thanks for the reply. This is the kinda information I like to see and really sounds like you have done your him work lol I ordered a 2871 84.ar and i should be happy with that l. As of now I only plan to run 10psi but in the past with my atvs it's always started as dune quads then quickly turned into a drag quads lol I just have a thing for going fast and winning drag racing lol l. So I was thinking I should have alot of wiggle room with the 2871 and it should spool pretty fast
Again thanks for the information
 
Brad those reeds look melted probably from extremely high intake temps caused from to small of of a turbo. What size turbo did you have on your sled? Yess I already have an msd fuel pump, automotive return style fuel pressure regulator. I will be reference of the pipe l.

Sounds like you have most of your bases covered! It'll be a fun project regardless. I dont remember what size turbo anymore, its the same one CPI used and those reeds weren't actually from heat although they do look like it lol. It happened 3 times to me before I finally got it figured out. Going from 0 to wide open when boost just started it was too lean and would backfire blowing them apart like that. Went to Boyesen Rage Cage and it still happened but instead of bending the cage, it just broke the reeds. If you plan on running race gas, it'll be fun on 10 psi. The 4psi i was running to use pump gas just wasn't worth the lag. I moved on to 4 stroke yammy's so i can run 20+psi these days ;)
 
X
Oct 8, 2009
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Good to hear you did not make the critical mistake a lot of people make when building a turbo...to quote those who cannot pronounce the letter "H"...It's gonna be UuGE! Good luck with your build. If you need any help with the carb setup, give Bryce at Turbo Performance a call. He has done many of them over the years. I also believe it would be wise to spend your money on an EFI sled. Tuning is way more predictable and easy to do.

But, if it turns out that the 800 does not make enough power, build a turbo 4 stroke. I got a little out of control building my chute climber 2 years ago...more like a lot. Any way, I prefer it over a turbo two stroke for climbing the big stuff. It also has a whole lot more bottom end grunt! Turbo'd they build way more torque and generate crazy track speeds. In addition, as was previously mentioned, they can handle a lot more boost.

In building SnowFlake (my turbo Viper), I learned a lot about what it takes to really build a high horsepower chute climber. Custom parts are ridiculously expensive. You have to know when to stop (read this sentence again). No matter what your ego says, you cannot really ride a sled that makes big power (300 hp and up). Otherwise, you ride around at half throttle all the time scared of what will happen to your life if you unleash the atom bomb. My fully built race motor is capable of more than 400 hp at elevation in the 30 to 35 pounds of boost range. Trust me, a sled that kind of power is not rideable on the mountain. My advice, keep your build reasonable and have fun.

Finally, you will likely find it difficult to keep your front end down once you get your sled dialed in. If so, call Kevin at KMOD. He builds a quality suspension that will put all of your new found power to the ground. Stock suspensions really cannot handle the kind of power transfer turbo sleds generate. Good luck!
 
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C
Jun 7, 2016
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Ionia Michigan
Can anyone tell me when boost referencing the carbs do only run 2 lines the the top right ports that the dpm line go to or do I also hook to the line that Ts both cabs together which is also hooked to dpm you can see the hose in the pic above. So 3 points or just the 2?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
C
Jun 7, 2016
28
2
3
32
Ionia Michigan
Can anyone tell me when boost referencing the carbs do only run 2 lines the the top right ports that the dpm line go to or do I also hook to the line that Ts both cabs together which is also hooked to dpm you can see the hose in the pic above. So 3 points or just the 2?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Nvm guys thanks to swerv his set up has the line between the 2 carbs above the fuel inlet just hooking the 2 carbs together so thhe T is takin out I'll get some pics when I get to that point to show exactly how my carbs are boost referenced power jet location and anything else that is important
 
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