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-   -   Gates 49C4266 Carbon Belt (https://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=394255)

TRS 03-11-2015 11:53 AM

Gates 49C4266 Carbon Belt
 
2 Attachment(s)
We have been running a Gates 49C4266 Carbon belt on the 2015 Ski-Doo 174 and 163 for the last week. Switching it out between sleds, big improvement here as well. You don't see the black clutches associated with the Doo belt. It hooks hard.
Here is a picture of the primary clutch with a stock ....391 belt and I will add a picture of a clutch after running the Carbon belt.
The boys are dumping their Doo belts and buying the Gates Carbon.
Attached Thumbnails

TRS 03-11-2015 11:57 AM

1 Attachment(s)
After running the Gates belt, we didn't clean the clutch before installing the Gates Carbon belt.

XFIRE800 03-11-2015 01:53 PM

Price? Warranty?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

TRS 03-11-2015 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XFIRE800 (Post 3821374)
Price? Warranty?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

1 year (warranty registration is in the belt sheath) and around $90 from Dobeck Performance.

Mattxp 03-11-2015 03:05 PM

Any difference in rpm switching between the two belts?

TRS 03-11-2015 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattxp (Post 3821402)
Any difference in rpm switching between the two belts?

Carbon belt was +150 RPM on the Doo.

sledhead_24_7 03-11-2015 09:03 PM

That is about what I've seen as well, as well as some friends that are using as well.

Plus the RPM stays LOTS more constant on long pulls. Or steep trees sidehills and such.

Wyorever 03-11-2015 09:12 PM

250 hard mountain miles on my 49C and it did this. I'll stick with the Doo 288 belt.

http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/...psb196e16f.jpg

powdermuncher 03-12-2015 12:31 AM

My Questionn is will it eat the clutch sheaths? Carbon fibre has the habit to be hard on ecuipment if you ever worked with the stuff you will know.

AK Soul 03-12-2015 12:42 AM

$70 on discountfleetsupply.com Great belt been running them 2 seasons and 1500 miles and never blown one

sledhead_24_7 03-12-2015 07:33 AM

It has carbon cords. As far as I know just a different rubber compound for the belt.

MountainTrashCat 03-12-2015 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattxp (Post 3821402)
Any difference in rpm switching between the two belts?

I would be more curious about a track speed difference between the two.

The belt won't "make" power, it's job is to transfer it to the secondary and then the track.

A wet or slick belt will rev higher....

I'm curious enough that I might try one of these belts on the dyno just to see.

sledr4life 03-12-2015 08:12 PM

I would agree. A belt that is slipping is not gripping the clutch.

Devilmanak 03-12-2015 08:49 PM

I was told that this belt has less "stretch" than a Doo belt. That a lot of the constant adjustment with a Doo belt was do to stretch and not wear. I have noticed that with (aftermarket) clutching, the Doo belt leaves my sheaves black as can be, I never saw that with stock Doo clutching and belt.

MountainTrashCat 03-12-2015 08:53 PM

Stretch shouldn't affect the adjustment of the belt in the secondary, just belt width, no?

powdermuncher 03-12-2015 11:07 PM

Anytime something stretches it will have to get thinner ( narrower)

The perfect belt will never stretch or deform when the clutch grabs it and all

the while never slip . I just switched to doo from Yamaha and

have to say the constant belt adjustments are not a signe of a great belt.

The yamaha belt never needed adjustment for the hole season on the turbo and

supercharger that I had. Anytime a belt changes its original dimensions your

clutching changes usually not for the better:face-icon-small-dis

TRS 03-13-2015 07:53 AM

A hot greasy belt as well as belt stretch causes RPM loss. As you make multiple runs with a belt that slips your RPM will drop with each run. The OE Doo and PI belts with stock clutching do witness this.
You will be impressed with the carbon belt on the Dyno. I was fortunate enough to be asked to join a two day session dynoing OE and aftermarket belts. We loaded and unloaded the clutching during multiple runs. At WOT the Dyno could drop speeds from 65 MPH to 20 MPH and hold it there. We then would cycle this over and over per belt, the Gates Carbon belt was an eye opener. I have not seen an aftermarket belt meet or exceed an OE belt until then.
These are a great buy compared to the OE belt prices, with a power transfer benefit over the OE belt.

byeatts 03-13-2015 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRS (Post 3822194)
A hot greasy belt as well as belt stretch causes RPM loss. As you make multiple runs with a belt that slips your RPM will drop with each run. The OE Doo and PI belts with stock clutching do witness this.
You will be impressed with the carbon belt on the Dyno. I was fortunate enough to be asked to join a two day session dynoing OE and aftermarket belts. We loaded and unloaded the clutching during multiple runs. At WOT the Dyno could drop speeds from 65 MPH to 20 MPH and hold it there. We then would cycle this over and over per belt, the Gates Carbon belt was an eye opener. I have not seen an aftermarket belt meet or exceed an OE belt until then.
These are a great buy compared to the OE belt prices, with a power transfer benefit over the OE belt.

The only OEM belt to run is the Race 288 Kevlar, Its a softer compound and never leave black marks, 391 hard compound slips.i bet the Gates is a med compound as well.

Devilmanak 03-13-2015 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrashCat (Post 3822079)
Stretch shouldn't affect the adjustment of the belt in the secondary, just belt width, no?

Stretch will affect deflection, regardless if the belt gest narrower when it stretches or not. A longer belt will have more deflection, if not adjusted out.
I have never understood why people adjust their belts to the height it rides in the secondary, and not by measuring deflection. I think the manufacturers have dummied it down for people. Deflection is what needs to be right. Yes, if deflection is right, the belt will ride above the secondary at a certain height. (On a new belt with an engine that is alignment, etc.) But on worn belts, other issues, it is deflection that needs to be correct, regardless of where the belt rides on the secondary.

off trail mike 03-14-2015 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devilmanak (Post 3822076)
I was told that this belt has less "stretch" than a Doo belt. That a lot of the constant adjustment with a Doo belt was do to stretch and not wear. I have noticed that with (aftermarket) clutching, the Doo belt leaves my sheaves black as can be, I never saw that with stock Doo clutching and belt.

I was surprised at how much my Doo belt stretched. I measured the width with calipers at the bottom and compared to a new on, and it hasn't worn much, but it was definitely loose in sheaves. Had to adjust it up probably an 1/8" in the sheave to get it back to spec's.

OTM

Devilmanak 03-14-2015 09:05 PM

Tom from Tom's Snowmobile told me about this, when I told him that my sleds seem to really "wake up" around 800 miles. He suggested that it was because my stock belt quit stretching at that point. Something to think about. My 174 T3 is at 775 miles now, and today I noticed that it seemed to have more kick than usual......

turboless terry 03-15-2015 12:58 AM

If that is where the kick comes in I don't think we are going to make it. My wife's has just over 500 miles I think.

off trail mike 03-15-2015 09:55 AM

Thought I'd put some measuring to our XM belts,which on mine is the 417 300 391. Belt is in excellent shape....no strings and no black rubber on the clutches.

The 417 300 391 spec is a top width of 38.3mm with 26 deg side angle

I'm not going to use the top width to measure because its likely the most variable and least reliable place to measure.

The belt has 1200 miles on it and sled has DJ clutch kit. It's the other side of great clutch kits... fantastic belt life. Compared against a new belt here's what I got.

Measured at the cord (actually just below as the cords protrude somewhat):
New Belt: 35 mm
Used Belt: 34.5 mm (1200 miles)

Measured at bottom of top cog:
New Belt: 36.4 mm
Used Belt: 35.8 mm (1200 miles)

So fairly consistent wear of 0.5-0.6 mm.

I then put that in CAD to see how much the worn belt should drop in the secondary clutch. CAD says 1.3 mm is what it "should" be, but I was measuring something closer to 3.0 mm so the belt was likely running too low in the secondary. The deflection was excessive as well. I adjusted back to "spec" and all now seems to be good.


So, lesson learned for me. I wouldn't go over 500 miles before adjusting and I'll be adjusting clutches much more often given there is both stretch and wear to contend with.

OTM

Devilmanak 03-15-2015 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turboless terry (Post 3822969)
If that is where the kick comes in I don't think we are going to make it. My wife's has just over 500 miles I think.

Heh, it wasn't as noticeable this year to me, but on my 13 and 14 rigs, I felt that the power dropped off pretty badly after they came off break-in, then came back after some miles. I really think that the rings aren't seating/bearings loosening up when breaking in, due to the large amount of synthetic oil that they are burning, and once they are off breakin mode, they actually loosen up with regular oil consumption. Just a theory though. Belt adjustment does make a huge difference in how they run, I try to check and adjust mine every ride.

BBP 03-16-2015 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by off trail mike (Post 3823048)
Measured at the cord (actually just below as the cords protrude somewhat):
New Belt: 35 mm
Used Belt: 34.5 mm (1200 miles)

Measured at bottom of top cog:
New Belt: 36.4 mm
Used Belt: 35.8 mm (1200 miles)

So fairly consistent wear of 0.5-0.6 mm.


OTM

My experience is not with the 391, but with the 377 & prior. I've always seen the bottom of the inner cog wear the most, more than double what the outer cog wears. I've never checked the side angle, but I assume it changes. I've never gotten the mileage out of a belt like you're getting, I can feel a big performance loss long before that & my belts measure much more wear than yours with much less mileage. Maybe I need to try one.


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