SnoWest Snowmobile Forum

SnoWest Snowmobile Forum (https://www.snowest.com/forum/index.php)
-   Polaris: TURBO (https://www.snowest.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=220)
-   -   174 MTNTK turbo pro (10 lbs) VS 174 sidewinder (https://www.snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=439487)

niner 01-15-2018 10:50 AM

174 MTNTK turbo pro (10 lbs) VS 174 sidewinder
 
https://youtu.be/4wQd-4ReQAU

A little comparison. Pretty happy. Those sidewinders are fast.

sumtinwong 01-25-2018 11:24 PM

what elevation was that at? and did he have work dun on the sidewinder? tune/clutches/pipe.exc.
I ask because im riding with a buddy that has a 2018 sidewinder btx 153 2.25 and we are running 0-4000ft I have a 2016 assault silber at 5 pounds indy dans clutch kit and I am wiping his a$$! we haven't got to the big end of things yet but we keep thinking that's where he will make up grounds

Octanee 01-26-2018 11:16 AM

I also wonder that as well for mods, the lighter weight pro and at 10# should out pull the stock sidewinder. But if the sidewinder had... The mcx tune then I could see it performing like that.

sumtinwong 01-26-2018 02:00 PM

yea I hear with a re-flash those SideWinders can get turned up over 400 HP THATS NUTS! we have found the clutching to be horrible it is absolutely the worst bottom end we have ever hade the pleasure of trying to fix! another buddy has a NA 4strok (2015 don't remember witch one} but it is rated at 130-135 HP and that sidewinder doesn't leave that sled in a race until they are doing about 30 its just silly all those ponies and they cant get them thru the drivetrain...we are working on the clutching on the SideWinder but it is proving to be a b!t(h at best...they are a lot more finicky than I thought they would be :( takes a wile for the turbo to spool up....I wonder if that's why they hade a rolling start on the clime it didn't sound like they got on it from the start.

AKFULLTHROTTLE 01-26-2018 04:32 PM

With out knowing what HP level that Yam is running.. The Pro on 10 is like a Axys on 5.

sumtinwong 01-26-2018 06:56 PM

wow that's a drastic change! 10 pounds to get 200+ hp nutty

live2beel 01-26-2018 09:21 PM

Rolling start definitely helps the Yamaha. Stick them both in fresh with no tracks and try again.

niner 01-29-2018 11:07 AM

Elevation is around 7500’
Sidewinder is running stock tune, stock clutching and a Cr straight pipe ( claimed 15 hp gain)
I’m running 76 gram lightning weights in the pro.
My sled kills a Axys running on 5 lbs.
We did a rolling start to minimize variables.
The sidewinder has track speeds in the 55 mph range and mine in the low 50’s mph track speeds.
Both sleds have 174 X3 tracks. Both have Baker skids.
Sidewinders up here are running very fast on the hills. I was pretty happy to see how close they are. Snow was in the 12”-18” of fresh. When it gets deeper mine should get closer.

sumtinwong 01-29-2018 03:45 PM

it must be the elevation like I said I ride with a 2018 sidewinder btx 153 I have a 2016 axys assault 155 800 silber turbo 5 pounds, indy dans low elevation clutching and I am putting him to shame! so bad he just dropped close to a grand on clutching to spruce it up! we have ben riding at 1500-2500 ft so far this year but I know that the sidewinder will produce a constant HP at all elevations and has a intercooler to accommodate the bigger boost temps... is yours intercooled? at 10 pounds im sure the intercooler is needed for your charge temps. like I said above we have not got in to any big/long pulls just short ones like the vid you posted and we have not tried a rolling start ether! but it has ben no competition yet but we are going to fix that! one way or the other. the SW, is a fun sled ether way the best 4 stroke I have ever ridden. all I can guess is its the pipe...elevation.... or like AK stated the axys is just responding to boost a lot better than the pros? I feel like its the elevation or the rolling start as we don't ride that far up so I cant attest to how much HP loss that gives you and the SW feels a lot stronger after 20-25 mph than it does off the line so I can see how the rolling start could make a big difference . I am going to try the rolling start the next time we go out to see if we get the same results you did! {even though I feel its padding the test to what the 4stroke needs!} much like when they redesigned the dirt bike tracks when the 4strokes first hit them to accommodate them...and no I am not bashing 4strokes own many of them in my summer toys...all my fave summer toys are 4strokes! but I can feel the difference in the two as a 2smoker has a volatile power and the 4stroker has a very linier power.

niner 01-29-2018 04:08 PM

https://youtu.be/0epoSJYEBcI

Here’s from this weekend. On the last hill in the video the sidewinder could make fresh tracks up and over. The 174 Axys belt drive Axys with gear down and Slp pipe would only get half way up the hill in fresh track. The 163 MTNTK Axys pulled the hill in fresh also.

sumtinwong 01-29-2018 04:32 PM

nice vid. im jealous its -30 hear and just to cold to have fun! that sidewinder pulls hard on top I can see the extra speed he was getting it looked like it was haling a$$! not surprising the na sled wasn't a competitor just not enough HP but I was surprised to see the 163 did as good as it did I could see it trenching a bit more than the SW 174... what boost did the 163 have and what size lugs was it pushing?
did the pro in the original post have a Intercooler?

niner 01-29-2018 08:01 PM

The Axys is a 2018 beltdrive with a 162 X3 MTNTK turbo
My pro in the first video is not intercooled.

sumtinwong 01-29-2018 08:23 PM

I would be willing to bet you would benefit greatly from an intercooler at those boost levels, your charge temps half to be well over what is desirable. how many pounds of boost on the 2018 mtntk turbo are you running? and did you get a chance to check out the winder with and without the pipe? wondering if you could tell the difference in power between the stock and aftermarket?

niner 01-29-2018 09:09 PM

The 2018 MTNTK turbo is running 10 lbs.
The pipe on the sidewinder definitely helps. More power and drops 15 lbs.
Would be nice if Sean from MTNTK would build me a intercooler for my pro, but last time I checked he wasn’t making one for the pro. Just the Axys.

sumtinwong 01-29-2018 10:04 PM

well send him some cookies and a 6pack of blonds.....beers that is keep your mind out the gutter hahaha! and tell him to get to work!
did the pipe on the SW help the spool or low-end or just the mids and up?
does your cru run lock outs in the rear skids/aftermarket skids? your sleds are nice and low on the skies and i cant keep mine down in a climb starting to think about the skinz ARC. cable run shock?

niner 01-29-2018 10:47 PM

The Racers Edge skid we are running are amazing. I have gained so much ground speed by using his skid. It doesn’t really have a lock out feature. His skids are set up for climbing and very precise handling. If you like to wheelie this skid is not for you.

sumtinwong 01-30-2018 12:11 AM

yea that's why i was looking at the arc shock lock out you can go from a stock skid to a fully locked one wile you ride and back again by just pushing a leaver with the left thumb. still pull the skies up and over creaks and fallen logs and then lock it out on the fly to shoot a steep climb and keep the skies down for control. i have ben hesitant to get a skid because sometimes i need to get them skies 3 ft high and only have 8 or 10 ft to do it!

xpturbo600 01-31-2018 01:26 AM

The winder is a much more capable sled for making power. If the pro turbo is beating on the winder, it is because it isn't setup correctly. To me, it is impressive that Niners sled is hanging with the winder at similar boost...great build.

The issue with any 4 stroke is the cost to build them right. To put down the power a winder is really capable of takes a 174 and a big coupling skid on top of everything else. Its big money to build one right. I think that is why most people have stayed away from them in general. The weight is manageable if you have big power, but the cost to get there is significant given what you can get from a 2 stroke turbo for the money.

Personally, I enjoy the comparison. It is interesting since each sled has its place, and the winder is still being developed as a platform. But, to be honest, its not gonna be much of a race if the winder owner gets serious. Thanks for the interesting discussion.

sumtinwong 01-31-2018 03:39 PM

yea I have enjoyed the vids. you ben posting makes me want to drive down their and scratch around in your litter box :)

niner 01-31-2018 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xpturbo600 (Post 4127271)
The winder is a much more capable sled for making power. If the pro turbo is beating on the winder, it is because it isn't setup correctly. To me, it is impressive that Niners sled is hanging with the winder at similar boost...great build.

The issue with any 4 stroke is the cost to build them right. To put down the power a winder is really capable of takes a 174 and a big coupling skid on top of everything else. Its big money to build one right. I think that is why most people have stayed away from them in general. The weight is manageable if you have big power, but the cost to get there is significant given what you can get from a 2 stroke turbo for the money.

Personally, I enjoy the comparison. It is interesting since each sled has its place, and the winder is still being developed as a platform. But, to be honest, its not gonna be much of a race if the winder owner gets serious. Thanks for the interesting discussion.

I agree that once the sidewinder gets his clutching dialed in there will be a bigger gap. Another guy with a similar set up with a 174 3” stock tune sidewinder is claiming mid 60 mph track speeds. So my buddy is getting some tips on clutching from him. So we will continue to compare.

sumtinwong 02-01-2018 06:12 PM

we just dropped thunder's kit in a SW yesterday. HH weights, 33-35 healix their springs for prim. and 2edary new rollers for both and a 911 cover. we are hoping to test this saturday and make a ride to the mountains sunday. ill let you know how we like it and if i get a card for the cam. ill try to get some footage!

sumtinwong 02-03-2018 11:39 PM

well we did most of the test\tune today in marginal snow conditions but wow that winder woke up like some one slapped it on the a$$! didn't make it to town to get a micro card so wont get footage but we are headed to the mountains tomorrow and am excited to see how it stacks up at the low elevation we run.

sumtinwong 02-06-2018 09:26 PM

well the SW was tacking low on the ride {8450 in the mids 8700 up top} but I was still smoking it even on the top end runs. the mountains were wind blown and drifty so we didn't get to hit them just played in lows and in the trees. we are going to try to finish tuning it on Friday and hit the hills again on Saturday... he wants to get a pipe and cold air intake ordered this weekend so we will see what difference that makes in the coming weeks! what RPMs is your buddy tacking his SW at? we have heard every thing from 8500 to 9000 so we are going to shoot for 8700-8750 and try again.

niner 02-06-2018 11:55 PM

2 Attachment(s)
The first one is a stock sidewinder and the other one is with straight pipe. You wanna be 8750-8800 rpm range.

sumtinwong 02-12-2018 09:36 PM

well me and my bud went out and did some boon-docking last sat. in 4 ft of blower snow and the winder is puling a lot better but still not beating the silber turbo axys at 5 pounds at about 1500ft. we never got to float the top-end of either sled but from what we can tell its not their yet! we got a hindle pipe and cold air intake on the way! with any luck it will be on before next weekend and ill let you know if that does it! I got to say tho that sled pops on top and climes like a champ!


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:23 AM.


All contents copyright 2007-2017, SnoWest Magazine, Harris Publishing Inc.