Unpopular opinion time: Having finally ridden my '21 850 factory turbo, it seems that aftermarket turbo mfgs/shops have no clue what they're doing

[routter]

The title says it all...

Long time sled/moto rider here who doesn't take it easy on his equipment. Proficient wrencher. I'm no brand loyalist and have run any number of turbos on both Doo's and Poo's from race gas to pump gas set up by some of the most noted shops and they all had tons of issues no matter how much attention was given to tuning and maintenance. In fact, they have been such pains in the a** over the years that I went back off boost for the last few seasons.

Now, however, the game is changed. This new factory 850 turbo is EXACTLY what the doctor ordered. Instant throttle response. No bog. No intake issues. No clutch issues. No endless fiddling with fuel/air/boost numbers. It just works. Bring on the deep.

 

[jcjc1]

that seems to be the consensus.

 

[High Voltage]

Looking to get one next year. If there is any issues they should have them ironed out by then.

 

[kanedog]

The title says it all...

Long time sled/moto rider here who doesn't take it easy on his equipment. Proficient wrencher. I'm no brand loyalist and have run any number of turbos on both Doo's and Poo's from race gas to pump gas set up by some of the most noted shops and they all had tons of issues no matter how much attention was given to tuning and maintenance. In fact, they have been such pains in the a** over the years that I went back off boost for the last few seasons.

Now, however, the game is changed. This new factory 850 turbo is EXACTLY what the doctor ordered. Instant throttle response. No bog. No intake issues. No clutch issues. No endless fiddling with fuel/air/boost numbers. It just works. Bring on the deep.

And all of this info from just one early season trail ride! Great!
bahahahahahahahaha just giving ya a hard time. I agree it’s pretty cool to ride a reliable turbowith no issues

 

[sledhead_24_7]

For a out of the box factory turbo it is really good. It is pretty much what was advertised. For me there are a couple small things that will be addressed before long.


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[Matte Murder]

I REALLY wish they’d turn up the boost a little tho. Come on 165hp, that’s barely worth the extra dinero. Should at LEAST be 185 especially in year fookin TWO!!!

 

[Mxsledder111]

Amazing machine for sure! I’m trying to find one.
Once they turn the boost up a little aftermarket turbos are going to become a rarity and with how I’ve heard of Boondocker take care of many recent issues on some of their turbo setups I hope it puts them out of the game.

 

[Rick E]

Bombardier needs to drop the turbo idea, and design a decent mechanically driven blower unit.
No exhaust back-pressure to deal with, no heat to deal with, no turbine issues, etc.

The old Detroit Diesel 2 stroke V engines ran very well and produced great torque and horse power while being charged rather than turbo'd.

 

[jcjc1]

there's some interesting benefits to electric turbo chargers (e-supercharger) from the little bit of reading i did. namely, instant spool-up speed, no heat issues, and higher max rpm since the rpm is independent of and doesn't rely on exhaust pressure.

 

[Mjunkie]

Bombardier needs to drop the turbo idea, and design a decent mechanically driven blower unit.
No exhaust back-pressure to deal with, no heat to deal with, no turbine issues, etc.

The old Detroit Diesel 2 stroke V engines ran very well and produced great torque and horse power while being charged rather than turbo'd.

I think the jury is still out on a supercharged 2-stroke. YES, there are people who claim the kinks are all worked out on the couple kits out there, but they are a LOT more money and I think still haven't been proven partly because there are so few out there.

I'm not sure about a diesel 2-stroke. Diesels are heavy, don't much like the cold, and turn very few (comparative) rpms which would mean probably a new CVT system to work right. That's a lot of money into R&D that of course would be passed on to the consumers.

Personally, I think the next big thing will be electric. Battery technology is what is holding us back, but there is a LOT of money already invested in innovations that will come along with lighter weight components. Electric will have no loss in power at altitude, doesn't need to breathe so doesn't matter how deep the powder is, and electric motors are high torque at all rpms. Just my $.02

 

[Rick E]

there's some interesting benefits to electric turbo chargers (e-supercharger) from the little bit of reading i did. Namely, instant spool-up speed, no heat issues, and higher max rpm since the rpm is independent of and doesn't rely on exhaust pressure.

You got it!

However, a huge draw-back would be the electrical energy required to spin a blower impeller.
A mechanically driven blower would eliminate that.

 

[jcjc1]

a mechanically driven one would sap some of the engine's horsepower as well, for an electric version, how much electric power would you need to turn that small of a turbine and could the engine supply that with a purpose-built alternator? if so, that would be so much simpler than the complicated traditional turbo. i would imagine though that the ski-doo engineers have already considered that idea. in the end, i agree with Mjunkie on the next big thing being electric sleds. assuming battery tech will be up to snuff, the performance and simplicity improvements will make gas motors seem like ancient relics. instant 100% horsepower and torque regardless of elevation with no clutching is extremely compelling.

 

[christopher]

Looking to get one next year. If there is any issues they should have them ironed out by then.

Exactly my plan as well.
WILL be Snow Checking one this spring!

 

[IcutMetl]

Bombardier needs to drop the turbo idea, and design a decent mechanically driven blower unit.
No exhaust back-pressure to deal with, no heat to deal with, no turbine issues, etc.

The old Detroit Diesel 2 stroke V engines ran very well and produced great torque and horse power while being charged rather than turbo'd.

They had blowers out of necessity, and turbos for power. Not 100% relevant.

 

[jdrmx]

Detroits wont run without a blower and dont build boost. The blower is merely to scavenge the cylinders. Some had a turbo on top of the blower. These would build some boost. Noisy boat anchors but sounded good.
Speedworks centrifugal superchargers are a cool thing.
No seat time on my turbo yet but im more than ready. Messing at home in a couple inches of snow the throttle responce is wicked quick!


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[IcutMetl]

Detroits wont run without a blower and dont build boost. The blower is merely to scavenge the cylinders. Some had a turbo on top of the blower. These would build some boost. Noisy boat anchors but sounded good.
Speedworks centrifugal superchargers are a cool thing.
No seat time on my turbo yet but im more than ready. Messing at home in a couple inches of snow the throttle responce is wicked quick!


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What he said.

 

[Rick E]

I think the jury is still out on a supercharged 2-stroke. YES, there are people who claim the kinks are all worked out on the couple kits out there, but they are a LOT more money and I think still haven't been proven partly because there are so few out there.

As with many things like this, it requires lots of R & D to get the soup just right!

1.....a mechanically driven one would sap some of the engine's horsepower as well,
2..... for an electric version, how much electric power would you need to turn that small of a turbine and could the engine supply that with a purpose-built alternator?
3..... if so, that would be so much simpler than the complicated traditional turbo.

1..... as does a Turbo Charger.

2..... whether the engine is turning an alternator that would power the Super Charger's electric motor, or whether the engine is mechanically spinning the Super Charger, the load on the engine would be the same. Watts can be converted to horse power, and visa-versa.
(we don't get any free horse power by going to an alternator powered electric charger motor.)

3..... I agree.

They had blowers out of necessity, and turbos for power. Not 100% relevant.

I believe that it is relevant in that the idea is to boost the incoming combustion air.
Both a Turbo Charger and a Super Charger pull hp from the engine.
The Super Charger does so without the exhaust back pressure and added heat.


It will be interesting to see what the industry does.

 

[Answ3r]

As with many things like this, it requires lots of R & D to get the soup just right!




1..... as does a Turbo Charger.

2..... whether the engine is turning an alternator that would power the Super Charger's electric motor, or whether the engine is mechanically spinning the Super Charger, the load on the engine would be the same. Watts can be converted to horse power, and visa-versa.
(we don't get any free horse power by going to an alternator powered electric charger motor.)

3..... I agree.



I believe that it is relevant in that the idea is to boost the incoming combustion air.
Both a Turbo Charger and a Super Charger pull hp from the engine.
The Super Charger does so without the exhaust back pressure and added heat.


It will be interesting to see what the industry does.

A supercharged pulls more HP from then engine than a turbo. Build two very similar setup at the same boost, and you will see more peak HP with a turbo. With a CVT, you don't care as much for the power curve as you do with a geared transmission on which you need to pull between the gaps.

 

[Ken65]

T

The title says it all...

Long time sled/moto rider here who doesn't take it easy on his equipment. Proficient wrencher. I'm no brand loyalist and have run any number of turbos on both Doo's and Poo's from race gas to pump gas set up by some of the most noted shops and they all had tons of issues no matter how much attention was given to tuning and maintenance. In fact, they have been such pains in the a** over the years that I went back off boost for the last few seasons.

Now, however, the game is changed. This new factory 850 turbo is EXACTLY what the doctor ordered. Instant throttle response. No bog. No intake issues. No clutch issues. No endless fiddling with fuel/air/boost numbers. It just works. Bring on the deep.

You

The title says it all...

Long time sled/moto rider here who doesn't take it easy on his equipment. Proficient wrencher. I'm no brand loyalist and have run any number of turbos on both Doo's and Poo's from race gas to pump gas set up by some of the most noted shops and they all had tons of issues no matter how much attention was given to tuning and maintenance. In fact, they have been such pains in the a** over the years that I went back off boost for the last few seasons.

Now, however, the game is changed. This new factory 850 turbo is EXACTLY what the doctor ordered. Instant throttle response. No bog. No intake issues. No clutch issues. No endless fiddling with fuel/air/boost numbers. It just works. Bring on the deep.

You opened a can of worms now! All the turboed poo boys are gonna start screaming and telling you how their turbos are spot on, don't bog, make 5000+ hp, no heat, etc, etc, etc. 1 ride on the doo and you know just how much better their r and d is over aftermarket. I said it before, this is going to kill the aftermarket boys. I like adding gas and oil and go ride. Doo for the win, again, this year.

 

[Teth-Air]

T
You

You opened a can of worms now! All the turboed poo boys are gonna start screaming and telling you how their turbos are spot on, don't bog, make 5000+ hp, no heat, etc, etc, etc. 1 ride on the doo and you know just how much better their r and d is over aftermarket. I said it before, this is going to kill the aftermarket boys. I like adding gas and oil and go ride. Doo for the win, again, this year.

It won't kill the aftermarket as not everybody likes riding a Doo. That said it will change the aftermarket, sending them off in a new direction, taking what Doo has done and trying to make it better or trying to emulate it on other sled brands. Currently there are a lot of us who like the direction Doo is going only don't see enough gains for the extra cost, extra weight, extra parts and extra complexity. In addition there are many who don't ride at a high enough altitude to get enough benefit to bother. If I had a choice for 6000 ft. I would prefer a few more cc's than a turbo, factory or aftermarket.