TRS Clutching

[sledhead9825]

While waiting for all the TRS parts to show up I tried this combo. 160/310 Primary 180/300 secondary 42-48.36 Helix with Polaris 10-74s.
Sled Specs. 17 174 Axys with a MTNTK system at 9ish lbs stock gearing and a CE X3 track. At 6000 FT.
Pulls hard up top, belt temps much cooler than stock MTNTK clutching. But bottom end got very soft, sluggy feeling.
Meanwhile waiting for parts. How could I get the bottom end to feel crisper with what I am running know?

 

[MBR44]

Learning some good stuff here. I am at 1500', running 7lbs on a 16 sks 155 w/ 2.6. I went with the popular kit of rooster weights 78.5g, 165/327 with 180/300 and 42-46/48 helix. Lost all our snow so testing is getting hard. I have a lake but that doesn't simulate good conditions. I am headed to buena vista in 3 weeks. I was looking to run 19 or 20/44 gear ratio with stock 7 tooth drivers. When another member mentioned he had 2.2 ratio you equated that to 2.39:1, why the conversion? Also because my kit has been giving me fits I have been sticking with adjustable weights. I have rooster turbo, ssi, IS T3 weights to choose from. What weight would I be better off with running the 46-32/34 helix and the already suggested springs(I have a ton of primary and secondary springs to play with). I will be out for a short period, one test day then 3 days with BBA. I was planning to run the 8lb spring which seems to read about 9lbs on the gauge as the 6.2lb spring reads 7.2 on the data logs. I won't have a ton of time to adjust and drill weights. Of those weights or the IS turbo weights, which has the best results? Thanks a bunch

 

[aksledjunkie]

While waiting for all the TRS parts to show up I tried this combo. 160/310 Primary 180/300 secondary 42-48.36 Helix with Polaris 10-74s.
Sled Specs. 17 174 Axys with a MTNTK system at 9ish lbs stock gearing and a CE X3 track. At 6000 FT.
Pulls hard up top, belt temps much cooler than stock MTNTK clutching. But bottom end got very soft, sluggy feeling.
Meanwhile waiting for parts. How could I get the bottom end to feel crisper with what I am running know?

Where's your engagement at?
I was running a similar setup with a 42-44 helix and more weight but was able to drop 4 grams when I put a 56-42 helix in there and my bottom end came to life again.
There are a lot of people running the steeper helix's, even more aggressive than what I just said, and they swear that's the only way to manage the power from a turbo.
Glad you started this thread Tdbaugha, got the wheels turning and some motivation to do some digging ha.

 

[sledhead9825]

Where's your engagement at?
I was running a similar setup with a 42-44 helix and more weight but was able to drop 4 grams when I put a 56-42 helix in there and my bottom end came to life again.
There are a lot of people running the steeper helix's, even more aggressive than what I just said, and they swear that's the only way to manage the power from a turbo.
Glad you started this thread Tdbaugha, got the wheels turning and some motivation to do some digging ha.

4100

 

[aksledjunkie]

So prior to dropping weight and the new helix my engagement was at 3900, now it's at 4100 as well. Was thinking of changing my primary spring which is currently an Almond (165/327) to see if I can get back to 3900.
But I could also drop some more weight as the highest RPM I could pull Sunday in very good snow conditions was 8250. What to do first hmmm.

 

[tdbaugha]

There are a lot of people running the steeper helix's, even more aggressive than what I just said, and they swear that's the only way to manage the power from a turbo.

Like has been stated before, shallow helix angles have more belt grip than steep ones. That's why I can get away with such a light secondary spring while running so much hp.

For those that have taken trigonometry, physics and engineering courses, or those that have a good intuition, take a look at the following picture (albeit not a great example). There is a horizontal force (engine torque from the belt) acting on the slope (helix). There is a reaction force normal to the slope of the helix. If you break this normal force down into X & Y coordinates, the helix will create a pinching force on the belt and an up shifting force. A shallow angle creates more vertical force (belt squeeze) than a steeper one and less of an upshifting force.

Thinking about it another way, If you had a 90 degree helix, you would have zero belt pinching coming from the helix and it would all have to come from the spring.


You can obtain high belt squeeze with super stiff springs and a steep helix, but that steep helix is also limiting upshift. Does anyone here run a steep helix and get full shift like my primary shows in the image above?

 

[aksledjunkie]

JJ you are good friends with Keith Curtis. Ask him what he runs for clutching on his boosted setup. According to Curt at Kurt's Polaris a stiffer spring and more aggressive helix(steeper) is the correct route to go and he also states that he set up Keith's sled with an even more aggressive helix than the one I just put in there.
Curious to hear the riders input, though I think if he felt his sled wasn't running correctly he would say something?

 

[tdbaugha]

JJ you are good friends with Keith Curtis. Ask him what he runs for clutching on his boosted setup. According to Curt at Kurt's Polaris a stiffer spring and more aggressive helix(steeper) is the correct route to go and he also states that he set up Keith's sled with an even more aggressive helix than the one I just put in there.
Curious to hear the riders input, though I think if he felt his sled wasn't running correctly he would say something?

There are quite a few boosted riders in this area, Crockets, KC comes up here on occasion, some locals, and now us. Last year when KC came up, he was running 10-70's and the stock secondary. All these guys have terrible belt life, unless they stop to let everything cool off all the time. When we first got our kits, we were so discouraged with our clutching. To the point of not wanting a turbo anymore if it meant a new belt every other ride. We are finally satisfied with Tony's setup. You can ride it without worrying or stopping all the time.

 

[aksledjunkie]

There are quite a few boosted riders in this area, Crockets, KC comes up here on occasion, some locals, and now us. Last year when KC came up, he was running 10-70's and the stock secondary. All these guys have terrible belt life, unless they stop to let everything cool off all the time. When we first got our kits, we were so discouraged with our clutching. To the point of not wanting a turbo anymore if it meant a new belt every other ride. We are finally satisfied with Tony's setup. You can ride it without worrying or stopping all the time.

So I guess my question is, how come I got 20 rides in before going through a belt and us Alaskan guys are running a completely different setup?? Any thoughts??

 

[dttrusko]

There are quite a few boosted riders in this area, Crockets, KC comes up here on occasion, some locals, and now us. Last year when KC came up, he was running 10-70's and the stock secondary. All these guys have terrible belt life, unless they stop to let everything cool off all the time. When we first got our kits, we were so discouraged with our clutching. To the point of not wanting a turbo anymore if it meant a new belt every other ride. We are finally satisfied with Tony's setup. You can ride it without worrying or stopping all the time.

IMO - steeper angle is better for the hillclimb guys. A steeper angle is going to be more aggressive, open faster = better response/acceleration - likely what they want, but they sacrifice belt life. Nothing to do with "holding the power"

Shallow angles = more side force (less belt slip) good backshift, slows upshift

Larger angles = less side force (some belt slip at full shiftout), faster upshift

A good analogy I've heard is helix angles are similar to coarse and fine thread bolts. Coarse (steep angle) are going to tighten faster, but require less force (try to make up belt pinch with stiff spring) whereas fine threads (shallow angle) will be slower to tighten, but requires more force and have less slip. It all equates to the CVT system working as intended and being more efficient and generating less heat. Way better for the everyday guy that can't afford a belt every time he goes out.

 

[tdbaugha]

So I guess my question is, how come I got 20 rides in before going through a belt and us Alaskan guys are running a completely different setup?? Any thoughts??

You know honestly I am not sure. Too many variables. But it sounds like you have your clutching dialed in and that's great!

This thread is about TRS's high elevation setup. It works 10X better than the clutching you find provided to us rocky mountain riders. I can finally ride my sled without blowing belts and experienced a performance increase so I'm sharing my findings with others.

 

[aksledjunkie]

You know honestly I am not sure. Too many variables. But it sounds like you have your clutching dialed in and that's great!

This thread is about TRS's high elevation setup. It works 10X better than the clutching you find provided to us rocky mountain riders. I can finally ride my sled without blowing belts and experienced a performance increase so I'm sharing my findings with others.

I'm not trying to split hairs so my bad. I'm glad you guys are able to ride and enjoy the turbo.
I personally feel like clutching is a constantly dynamic element to the sled, in regards to what you need is always changing.
I'm always tweaking the clutching to see if one way is better than others. With as much as I've changed over the last 500 miles I'm just surprised it took so long to eat a belt.

 

[Spaarky]

I'm not trying to split hairs so my bad. I'm glad you guys are able to ride and enjoy the turbo.
I personally feel like clutching is a constantly dynamic element to the sled, in regards to what you need is always changing.
I'm always tweaking the clutching to see if one way is better than others. With as much as I've changed over the last 500 miles I'm just surprised it took so long to eat a belt.

We always used to tweak too. Everyday, sometimes more than once. I put in Tony's clutching last year and haven't touched it since.

Tory is trying to help people and pool info to better the Axys with TRS clutching. Please don't muddy this thread with questioning it. If you don't think it will work...... Don't buy the Koolaid.

 

[AKFULLTHROTTLE]

Please don't muddy this thread with questioning it. If you don't think it will work...... Don't buy the Koolaid.

And you have been doing sooo good Spaarky!

 

[AKFULLTHROTTLE]

Just because one questions something does not mean he does not believe it will work, he just wants to make sure the bungee is connected before he jumps off the bridge with the rest.

This is a great thread and questions help others.

 

[Spaarky]

And you have been doing sooo good Spaarky!

Wow .... Sure wish I had a clue what you are talking about.

 

[aksledjunkie]

Tony is trying to help people and pool info to better the Axys with TRS clutching. Please don't muddy this thread with questioning it. If you don't think it will work...... Don't buy the Koolaid.

Wow, okay. I thought that's what forums were for? Q&A.
By definition I think I'm correct.
So to role play here, you go to buy your new AXYS, dealer says, "No you shush, you don't ask me questions. I'm trying to help people ride in the mtns with my superior product. If you don't think it will work....don't buy it."
How receptive would you be to that? On a scale of 1-10? 1 being, I really dislike this guy and 10 being this guy is salesman of the year material.

 

[AKFULLTHROTTLE]

Wow .... Sure wish I had a clue what you are talking about.

Less Douchey, Lots of good info with out the "this is how it is" mentality.

 

[Spaarky]

I would rather be a little douchey then pass on bad and incorrect information.

Obviously my comment was not taken quit right. Last week there was 30 of Tony's helix's sold at Venom alone. Including what I have ordered and other people it is probably up around 60. That tells me there is A LOT of people who are not happy with their turbo clutching. We haven't even touched on NA. Tory is trying to pool the information for this set up to finalize it. TRS spend hours upon hours perfecting the Pro turbo set up. Well for another month or so, TRS can't physically go out and help. So we need to share info... Clutch pictures, results Ect..... So coming in here and talking about Kurts set up ir steep angles and high rates springs isn't real helpful. We are dedicated to this set up because of the results we have experienced.

So please, pony up, buy the set up... So we can all compare notes on THIS set up. I have ran what you guys are trying to run since before 2000. We tried all kinds of crazy configurations. I have never been 100% happy until now.

 

[aksledjunkie]

What notes is there to compare? You've told people what to run and by your own admission it would basically be a bunch of people coming here to say, "This setup works." not to actually compare anything. I'll bow out of this thread but seems seriously lame that I can't ask questions and support my questions with the info of how I got there. No disrespect to Tony and all the hard work he is putting into this setup. I prefer to be an informed buyer or not a buyer at all.


Happy sledding everyone.