Engine Seized- 2000 Powder Special

BordnBill · Jan 1, 2008

Hit the throttle slightly today after 15 miles of riding, heard a pop, and engine stopped. Pulled the plug on the clutch side (PTO??) and the it looks as if the piston hit it somehow. Lots of opinions from riding buddies, but wanted to know what ya'll think. Can't pull on pull rope, clutch spins only slightly so I know that piston is seized. Cause?? Seems to be running right on as far as fuel/oil goes. Ran strong all day, not one problem (except for getting stuck a few times), hit the trail for a few miles, slowed down for a curve in the trail, then hit that throttle when all this happened. Only going about 25 mph when it happened. The sled has 4700 miles on it, and I've owned it for 2000 of those miles. I haven't done a top end in it and not sure what the previous owner did. Checked compression at the beginning of this season, and that was good. My questions are: What does this sound like? what could have caused it? Do top ends just go out? Any advice or help will be greatly appreciated. I will be tearing it down this Sat. to see what all the carnage looks like. Thanks.

Nate · Jan 1, 2008

Had one in the exact same year. seized at 2084 due to bearing failure. Food for thought, I couldnt wait to get rid of it

Ski-Laxn · Jan 1, 2008

If the pull rope won't pull but the clutch turns back and forth you probably have a broken crank. pull both plugs and see if one side moves and the other doesn't. These were known to break cranks.

BordnBill · Jan 1, 2008

Ski-Laxn said:
If the pull rope won't pull but the clutch turns back and forth you probably have a broken crank. pull both plugs and see if one side moves and the other doesn't. These were known to break cranks.

rope won't pull and the clutch turns maybe 1/4 to 1/2. Pulled both plugs and one piston moves and the other doesn't. So, with that said, it may be a crank? Once I do a tear down, can that show me the broken crank?

woodies · Jan 2, 2008

no maybe the crank is for sure a goner, off to the shop with it

Ski-Laxn · Jan 2, 2008

pull the cylinders and look. once you get them off you should be able to tell if the crank is broke. I have a spare crank $250 plus shipping.
Ski-laxn

brushwolf · Jan 2, 2008

I have a crank that I would be willing to part with.

golfsnownut · Jan 2, 2008

From my experience of my ZR600 EFI piston breakage, I can tell you why....If pistons have not been replaced for several thousand miles, you are carrying time bomb. In my case, the ring retainer pin failed and ring moved then the gap caught the exhaust port and shattered top crown of piston. A mechanic told me that pistons should have been replaced every 2-3 thousand miles no matter what how they look but real cheap insurance to do that. my 02 cents!

BordnBill · Jan 2, 2008

Thanks everyone for the great info. I may take one of you up on that crank. I will tear the thing down on Sat. so I should be able to see what is screwed. I definitely will do a top end, but by the sounds of it, a crank may be in order. Ski-Laxn and Brushwolf, are those cranks in good shape? I just didn't do a top end because it intimidates me to do, but from what I hear, I have done more on my sled that is more involved than a top end. The only one to blame on that is myself. Lesson learned.

Ski-Laxn · Jan 2, 2008

The crank is in good shape I just bought it for my sons sled but didn't need it but still tore down and resealed case halves and put all back together. Let me know on the crank or I'll put it on ebay need some more parts for my M7.

BordnBill · Jan 2, 2008

Ski-Laxn said:
The crank is in good shape I just bought it for my sons sled but didn't need it but still tore down and resealed case halves and put all back together. Let me know on the crank or I'll put it on ebay need some more parts for my M7.

Is installing a crank pretty involved? Do I need to remove the engine? I take it the crank you have will work for my 00 AC Powder Special 600EFI? As soon as I tear it down, I will let you know if I need it or not. Thanks.

Ski-Laxn · Jan 2, 2008

You have to pull the engine remove the jugs,pistons, waterpump,all mounts you will have the engine tore completly down. You will need a puller to pull the flywheel,primary clutch puller, its nice to have a impact driver, 6mm 3/8 allen socket,3/8 allen socket. I'll think of more. Where are you located.

dirtoval#19 · Jan 2, 2008

I had a 2000 powder speacial and seized it once. Cause was the oil pump bracket that holds the cable broke off and every time I gunned the throttle the cable housing moved up and down on the cable and it wasn't getting any oil. After you tear the engine down and reasemble check cable mount bracket and make sure you dont have any hear line cracks. Good luck on your rebuild

BordnBill · Jan 2, 2008

I am located in central Washington. Sounds like quite a job to do this. I don't think it's oil related. I pulled the other plug and it looks great. The plug I pulled on the PTO side had some specs on it and pushed in a little. From the sounds of it, it was a detonation issue. I'm getting mixed answers on whether it's the crank or not. Most are saying it's not the crank, but we will find out when I tear it down. As far as tearing the engine down, is it difficult to pull the engine? I'm just worried about all the wiring and stuff like that.

brushwolf · Jan 3, 2008

The crank is in excellent shape. it is a spare that I have. I could put it in a case with new seals for you so all you have to do is add your parts. I will need your old crank and case in exchange though.

Ski-Laxn · Jan 3, 2008

If you dont think its the crank then just pull the head and jugs off in the chasis. You can still oull the motor later if you need to. My diagnosis of the crank is due to the movement of the clutch and not the recoil.

diggerdown · Jan 3, 2008

Takes longer to type the postings than just pull the jugs off.

Mountain Doo-OLD · Jan 3, 2008

^^^ now that's a good one ROTFLMAO!!!

firecat99 · Jan 4, 2008

engine

i had everything that you just said happen to me 2 years ago on a mountain cat 800 but with fresh pistons, well over 1000miles but rebuilt the year befor and she was running like a dream then one day i was ripping down the lake at about 70-80miles or more she did the same just stop, so when i came to a complet stop i tryed to pull her over and nothing but i had play in the motor, so i draged her back to my shop and tore the motor down and i had half of my pto side gone along with some of the cylender, this wasnt my sled and i felt bad for buddy lol, so i told him not knowing at the time that the crank and everything went when i pulled the motor, and when i did that i seen a small hole in the case, not sure if this helps you much or gives your hopes up but he ended up getting all new motor and all anyways, but the plugs and everything were the same as you stated.

BordnBill · Jan 4, 2008

Update... I tore the engine down with a buddy that knows Cats. All I have to say is, I am very lucky. The piston skirt was gone on the back side of the piston. Inspected the crank along with the bearings and everything in there seems good. The cylinder that had the broken piston looks pretty good as well. You can feel a little scratch with a fingernail, but you can barely feel it. Maybe a hone job can get that out. Once we pulled the cylinder head off, we saw pieces of the skirt on top of the piston, we tapped the piston and everything started to move again, ie, clutch, pull rope. Pulled everything out so we can get rid of all the skirt debris. So, off to the Cat shop tomorrow to buy a top end kit, along with all the gaskets. Are the OEM pistons ok to buy or should I go with another brand? Thanks everyone for your help.

Engine Seized- 2000 Powder Special

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