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imdoo'n
03-19-2011, 11:04 AM
why will using a sos or analog beacon kill(murder) myself or riding friends. i can use it and have practiced lots. sales guy asks what is my life worth. i think my buddy's beacon is more important, and that he knows how to use it. so will a 4 to 500 beacon be better equiped to save me than my old sos beacon. please explain. i'm not asking about what receiver my buddy or rescuer is wearing. just my transmitter



don't get me wrong i think the new digital beacons are the way to go.

SnowBigDeal
03-19-2011, 11:17 AM
If you are the one buried, then it doesn't really matter which beacon you are using, as long as it is still transmitting on 457khz. Some of the older beacons have had "frequency drift" and may be a few cycles off of 457, therefore decreasing the range that your beacon can be found from. (A pieps DSP can check frequency drift of other beacons, so if you know someone who has a pieps DSP, they can check our frequency drift for you).

Also, new this year, the Ortovox 3+ has a new feature to help you if you are the one buried. The orientation of the transmitting antennae can have an impact on the distance you can be found from. There is an optimal orientation, a poor orientation, and worst orientation. The Ortovox 3+ a three-antenna beaconwith "intelligent position recognition system", which analysez the position of the antennas and automatically switches to the optimal transmitting antenna. There is no longer any such thing as the 'worst position'.

When it comes to searching with a beacon, I would definitely choose a Pieps DSP over an SOS. If I get buried and want to be found, I hope my buddy is wearing a Pieps instead of an SOS.

Hope all that helps.

imdoo'n
03-19-2011, 11:43 AM
yes i agree, but you are talking about the receiver, the transmitter makes no difference. single transmit antenna, 1 orientation. so my beacon has really no effect on my ability to be saved. and i would think all beacons will have signal drift over time thus making no difference. so again how will wearing a digital beacon be better at saving the victims life.


a varity of beacon makes would be the best in a rescue situation. but difference does it make what the victim has on?

bdoe22
03-19-2011, 02:00 PM
yes i agree, but you are talking about the receiver, the transmitter makes no difference. single transmit antenna, 1 orientation. so my beacon has really no effect on my ability to be saved. and i would think all beacons will have signal drift over time thus making no difference.

Also, new this year, the Ortovox 3+ has a new feature to help you if you are the one buried. The orientation of the transmitting antennae can have an impact on the distance you can be found from. There is an optimal orientation, a poor orientation, and worst orientation. The Ortovox 3+ a three-antenna beaconwith "intelligent position recognition system", which analysez the position of the antennas and automatically switches to the optimal transmitting antenna. There is no longer any such thing as the 'worst position'.
Hope all that helps.

the 3+ can give you a better chance that someone will find you. FASTER.

imdoo'n
03-19-2011, 02:24 PM
yes, but that again is in the receiver, nothing to do with the transmitter. transmitter signal pattern, will not change, unless a different antenna is used or a different signal. all the digital receiver has done is process the info for you. were as the analog sos receiver, you the operator must process info instead.

so how will a digital transmitter better able to save a avi victim.

James T Kirk
03-19-2011, 03:00 PM
The digital transmitter will be able to save a life faster when you have to switch it to search mode to find your buddy. Have you ever practiced with an SOS beacon and then tried a similar search with a digital beacon? Its like riding a 98 summit 670 vs a new M8. Try a multiple burial search, its like adding a turbo to the M8.

Sure, when you are the one buried your odds are quite similar weather you are wearing an analog SOS or a modern digital as long as your buddies arent trying to figure out how to search with an old SOS.

Your choice of beacons isnt just about you and how long it takes someone to find you....

imdoo'n
03-19-2011, 03:05 PM
yes i agree, but you are talking about the receiver, the transmitter makes no difference. single transmit antenna, 1 orientation. so my beacon has really no effect on my ability to be saved. and i would think all beacons will have signal drift over time thus making no difference.



the 3+ can give you a better chance that someone will find you. FASTER.

please explain how wearing this beacon will allow anyone to find me faster.

imdoo'n
03-19-2011, 03:14 PM
The digital transmitter will be able to save a life faster when you have to switch it to search mode to find your buddy. Have you ever practiced with an SOS beacon and then tried a similar search with a digital beacon? Its like riding a 98 summit 670 vs a new M8. Try a multiple burial search, its like adding a turbo to the M8.

Sure, when you are the one buried your odds are quite similar weather you are wearing an analog SOS or a modern digital as long as your buddies arent trying to figure out how to search with an old SOS.

Your choice of beacons isnt just about you and how long it takes someone to find you....

again you are not answering my question, and yes i have. it is a lot harder, but can be done. you want me to turn my beacon off when we do a search for you. i think snowbigdeal has answered my question. thank you. i still feel the digital beacon is the way to go, just wanted some honest answers.

SnowBigDeal
03-19-2011, 04:27 PM
please explain how wearing this beacon will allow anyone to find me faster.

Because all beacons, regardless of whether they are one, two, or three antennae, only transmit on one antennae. Therefore if the transmitting antenna is transmitting on the one antennae with the worst antennae orientation, the range at which your beacon can be picked up will be decreased. The 3+ beacon recognizes which direction your transmitting antennae is oriented and switches to the best antennae for transmitting. (this is all the theory behind it; if you go out and play with multiple beacons and orient them differently, you will find that all beacons have areas in which they excel and other in which they do poorly).

My personal opinion: 99% of the time this will not help you and your SOS beacon will do just as well as long as it is still transmitting on 457khz.

bdoe22
03-19-2011, 04:27 PM
when in transmit mode, the 3+ will pick the optimal antanae to transmit depending on how the beacon is situated. im not sure why you are not understanding this.

imdoo'n
03-19-2011, 06:08 PM
Because all beacons, regardless of whether they are one, two, or three antennae, only transmit on one antennae. Therefore if the transmitting antenna is transmitting on the one antennae with the worst antennae orientation, the range at which your beacon can be picked up will be decreased. The 3+ beacon recognizes which direction your transmitting antennae is oriented and switches to the best antennae for transmitting. (this is all the theory behind it; if you go out and play with multiple beacons and orient them differently, you will find that all beacons have areas in which they excel and other in which they do poorly).

My personal opinion: 99% of the time this will not help you and your SOS beacon will do just as well as long as it is still transmitting on 457khz.

thank you, good info.

imdoo'n
03-19-2011, 06:14 PM
when in transmit mode, the 3+ will pick the optimal antanae to transmit depending on how the beacon is situated. im not sure why you are not understanding this.

ok i read the 3 + beacon review, the transmitter will chose the most horizontal of 2 transmitting antenna. couldn't read the manuals i found as i think they were in german. the 3+ has a transmitting range of 40m. if the antenna is oriented vertical( 33%of the time) it will only transmit 20 m+/-(1/2 power), the second antenna will be horizontal oriented another 33% of the time. so 66% of the time you get close to maximum output of 40m. so the last 33% you are not oriented correctly and get 20m+ of signal. the 3+ is an improvement but when will you be in the optimal antenna orientation 100% of the time. the sos at the same vertical orientation should give a signal range of 45m+ at worse case scenario(1/2 power). the comments posted on the review site were not all favorable, but i will watch this beacon as it has lots of possibilities .

imdoo'n
03-19-2011, 08:49 PM
yes the digital beacon is the way to go for anyone looking for a new beacon. practice is a must, and do it often. thanks snowbigdeal, honest answer, what i was looking for. i will have to hunt again, maybe not at the same store though.

SnowBigDeal
03-19-2011, 10:43 PM
ok i read the 3 + beacon review, the transmitter will chose the most horizontal of 2 transmitting antenna. couldn't read the manuals i found as i think they were in german. the 3+ has a transmitting range of 40m. if the antenna is oriented vertical( 33%of the time) it will only transmit 20 m+/-(1/2 power), the second antenna will be horizontal oriented another 33% of the time. so 66% of the time you get close to maximum output of 40m. so the last 33% you are not oriented correctly and get 20m+ of signal. the 3+ is an improvement but when will you be in the optimal antenna orientation 100% of the time. the sos at the same vertical orientation should give a signal range of 45m+ at worse case scenario(1/2 power). the comments posted on the review site were not all favorable, but i will watch this beacon as it has lots of possibilities .

You may want to check out the Pieps Vector that is coming out next year; I believe it will have the same type of feature as the 3+ in regard to the switching of the antennae. Should be the best beacon out there.....but very pricey

imdoo'n
03-20-2011, 10:39 AM
i will look at that for sure. wow looks real good, 80m range 4 antenna's, comes out in sept. thanxs snowbig deal, will be looking at it in sept,

eddy
03-21-2011, 06:45 PM
The reason is under the stress of an emergency the easier to use unit is the one that will find the target.

When all hell breaks loose you would not believe how simple things become extremely hard to do under unusual stress, confusion and fear.

backcountryislife
03-23-2011, 01:48 PM
The reason is under the stress of an emergency the easier to use unit is the one that will find the target.

When all hell breaks loose you would not believe how simple things become extremely hard to do under unusual stress, confusion and fear.

This is a good point, but again, he's not asking about how it works searching, he only cares about himself, and if HE can be found:face-icon-small-win:heh:

My #3 & #4 spares are both pieps 457's that I have checked with my S1 for signal drift, and they test good. IF I have someone who I know will not be searching for me in the case of a slide (total NOOB, out for one day, not gonna bother training them...) I'll toss the pieps on them & teach them how to go to search mode in case of a slide so they're not a nuisance, yes, the older beacons are good for this.

My #1 & #2 spares are Tracker 2's though, because most of the time... I'd like my friends to be able to find me if I'm buried.

Moral of the story... wear a crappy beacon & buy a good one for your buddy, cause you're the only one that REALLY matters, right??? :face-icon-small-ton

heavy_haul
03-23-2011, 04:04 PM
It all comes down to preference. Just like buying a new sled. And also how well you can use the beacon. Digital or analog, black vs white or cat vs poo....

James T Kirk
03-23-2011, 08:19 PM
It all comes down to preference. Just like buying a new sled. And also how well you can use the beacon. Digital or analog, black vs white or cat vs poo....

Comparing digital to analog is not apples to apples. What would you PREFER your partner had if you were buried?? What would you PREFER to be searching with if your best friend was suffocating? Have you ever practiced multiples with an analog beacon?? Or a digital for that matter?

imdoo'n
03-23-2011, 09:07 PM
Comparing digital to analog is not apples to apples. What would you PREFER your partner had if you were buried?? What would you PREFER to be searching with if your best friend was suffocating? Have you ever practiced multiples with an analog beacon?? Or a digital for that matter?

you are right, very few practice multiple burials, just got a little po'd with the sales guy, i went to look at new digital beacon and was a little put out with what i heard. older becons will work, not as well as the digital, but they still will work, ust need lots of practice, still that is not the point, snowbigdeal gave me the info i was seeking and pointed me to a few new beacons, again i say thanks. good info, no kick in the teeth, just what i needed.
snowbigdeal took the time. thanks.

James T Kirk
03-23-2011, 11:13 PM
you are right, very few practice multiple burials, just got a little po'd with the sales guy, i went to look at new digital beacon and was a little put out with what i heard. older becons will work, not as well as the digital, but they still will work, ust need lots of practice, still that is not the point, snowbigdeal gave me the info i was seeking and pointed me to a few new beacons, again i say thanks. good info, no kick in the teeth, just what i needed.
snowbigdeal took the time. thanks.

Practice is the point. The amount of practice required to be proficient, especially at multiples, with an analog is simply unrealistic for most. How many people actually practice more then once a season in the parking lot? 2 beacons located in 4 minutes, thats how fast you need to be in a controlled practice situation to even have a chance in a real rescue. How many analog users out there can actually do that? I had to practice a constantly to be able to regularly do that in the days that the only option was an analog (and I was tested regularly due to my work at the time), with a digital and some instruction I see some people get it in their first few tries.

I'm not baggin on you, my point is that analog beacons will NOT work for most users because they will not put in the practice time required...

Matte Murder
09-18-2011, 04:42 PM
Snowbigdeal I ordered 3 vectors. Can you explain how the gps feature works on this beacon. I think I know but would like your take on it.

PCDan
10-10-2011, 10:24 PM
You may want to check out the Pieps Vector that is coming out next year; I believe it will have the same type of feature as the 3+ in regard to the switching of the antennae. Should be the best beacon out there.....but very pricey

Snowbigdeal, Which would you suggest for my 15 year old ... I have no problem buying the best for him, but I want it to be damn easy to for him to use if he has to find me. The vector looks like it could be complicated ... Is the Ortovox 3+ easier to use?

Pinebeatle
10-13-2011, 09:26 PM
Anyone have thoughts on the Tracker DTS?? am thinking about getting one:face-icon-small-con

SnowBigDeal
10-14-2011, 09:57 AM
Snowbigdeal I ordered 3 vectors. Can you explain how the gps feature works on this beacon. I think I know but would like your take on it.

The vectors aren't even on the market yet, so I haven't had a chance to play around with them much. I have only seen them at the Outdoor Retailer show. From the demonstrations I remember, you can plug the beacon into your computer when you get home and download your tracks. There are some other gps features, but I don't quite remember what they are. Sorry, I will be able to provide more information about it once we have them in stock.

SnowBigDeal
10-14-2011, 09:58 AM
Snowbigdeal, Which would you suggest for my 15 year old ... I have no problem buying the best for him, but I want it to be damn easy to for him to use if he has to find me. The vector looks like it could be complicated ... Is the Ortovox 3+ easier to use?

If you want ease of use, I would recommend the tracker 2. For single burials, it is the easiest beacon out there.

Anyone have thoughts on the Tracker DTS?? am thinking about getting one:face-icon-small-con
Tracker DTS is a good option, it is a 2-antennae beacon. The Tracker 2 is a little easier to use, and a little faster as well. It is worth the upgrade in my opinion.

Jeff C
11-28-2011, 11:30 AM
Recently I bought (2) Ortovox 3+ units for me and my son. I still had my older SOS beacon.

The new Ortovox beacon is waaaaay faster at finding someone. We tried several different orientations to the Ortovox (Transmitting). Then used botht eh SOS and the Ortovox trying to locate the hidden "Victim". The Ortovox found and pinpointed the transmitting beacon a full minute faster and with greater pinpoint accuracy than my SOS did.

That was under "easy" non stressful conditions. Imagine a loved one buried and how the stress level goes through the roof. The Ortovox was extremely easy to use.......

Dont mess with the older dial SOS beacons. If your considering replacing your beacon, go with one that is easy to use........

I just happened to get the Ortovox 3+ beacuse of the readout, sound pitch change graduations, and how easy it is to use......