STORAGE, CFI FUEL SYSTEM, INJECTORS,PLUMBING AND OUR CRAPY FUEL THESE DAYS

mountainhorse · Aug 24, 2010

Today's ethanol added gas and even gas last season that did not have ethanol is not the best quality and does not store very well...So bad that fire dept are switching to fuels like VP's SEF 94 for stability reasons and ability to store well.

Click here for VP's SEF-94.

With our crappy gas these days... and VERY short storage life before deposits form... IMO...At the end of the season... add marine grade stabil to the gas in the last month of riding (you really never know when the last ride is for the year)...

Fog the motor after you know you've done your last ride.

Then, drain the tank completely... run the pump in prime mode with the return line disconnected and into a bottle to get the old fuel out of the lines... disconnect the line at the fuel filter and blow out the fuel with DRY compressed air, or preferably nitrogen at 45 psi.

Then, hook everything back up... install a new filter and you are ready for the next season.

OR... Drain your system, install a new filter and run the SEF94 thru the system at the end of the year...

Personally, I'm going to pony up for some SEF 94 for the end of next season (building this season with new motor and injectors etc).

If you have an EFi sled... IMO.. you should send in your injectors to get cleaned and checked for flow/symmetry each summer so that you KNOW, absolutely, that the injectors are not your weak link.

The ethanol can carry water with it which can corrode the pintle/seat in the injector.

Running fuel system cleaners at the beginning of the season to try to deal with this can actually make your problems worse... they can loosen gums and varnish in the tank/plumbing and clog filters, pump rotors and injectors...plus they can soften some of the plastics used in the sleds fuel systems.

Not that cleaners don't have a purpose.. IMO... they are a good Maintenance "tool" that can be run through the season to keep things clean... but if your EFi system is dirty already...don't do it IMO.

Also, with many people fueling from gas-cans... a lot of dirt etc can get into the system... IMO...ALWAYS use a funnel filter and make sure that your cans are always sealed after each use and kept clean inside.... Dont use old fuel no matter how tempted you are.

I use Witch Hunter Performance in Wa. for my cleaning and flow testing of injectors.

I like to be able to depend on my equipment each year... and don't want to leave this stuff to chance.

Also, for you new sled owners out there with extended warranties..the warranty does NOT cover fuel related issues like gummed up injectors etc.
If your motor burns down from clogged injectors... YOU are on the hook for the repairs.

I'm sure some will chime in and say that "I've not had a problem...I never needed to do this..." which is good for them.

All I can say is that the gas HAS changed in the past year or so, it will probably get worse and my riding time is too important to worry about this stuff... Preventive maint can go a long way towards a happy season. :face-icon-small-hap:face-icon-small-hap

My 2 cents.

CompFusion · Aug 24, 2010

I've always preached the use of fuel stabilizer during the last half of the season. If you run it regularly then it's already in good shape for the summer. Thank god we don't have the ethanol issues here yet...but I expect it's coming sooner or later.

NapaMatt · Aug 24, 2010

Very Well Done Again!

I will say also..

SEF-94.. It is worth Every Penny!

Race Fuel will go Bad.. Just Normally takes longer..

My .02

mountainhorse · Aug 24, 2010

Thanks Matt!

Race Fuel will go Bad.. Just Normally takes longer..

Some race gas will go bad in a couple of days if it gets too hot too.

SEF 94 is much more stable than normal race gas... It really isn't a performance gas... mostly for storage... Better than pump gas by a long shot...but cost is about $9/gallon in 5 gallon pails.

PusherMan99 · Aug 24, 2010

mountainhorse said:
Today's ethanol added gas and even gas last season that did not have ethanol is not the best quality and does not store very well...So bad that fire dept are switching to fuels like VP's SEF 94 for stability reasons and ability to store well.

Click here for VP's SEF-94.

With our crappy gas these days... and VERY short storage life before deposits form... IMO...At the end of the season... add marine grade stabil to the gas in the last month of riding (you really never know when the last ride is for the year)...

Fog the motor after you know you've done your last ride.

Then, drain the tank completely... run the pump in prime mode with the return line disconnected and into a bottle to get the old fuel out of the lines... disconnect the line at the fuel filter and blow out the fuel with DRY compressed air, or preferably nitrogen at 45 psi.

Then, hook everything back up... install a new filter and you are ready for the next season.

OR... Drain your system, install a new filter and run the SEF94 thru the system at the end of the year...

Personally, I'm going to pony up for some SEF 94 for the end of next season (building this season with new motor and injectors etc).

If you have an EFi sled... IMO.. you should send in your injectors to get cleaned and checked for flow/symmetry each summer so that you KNOW, absolutely, that the injectors are not your weak link.

The ethanol can carry water with it which can corrode the pintle/seat in the injector.

Running fuel system cleaners at the beginning of the season to try to deal with this can actually make your problems worse... they can loosen gums and varnish in the tank/plumbing and clog filters, pump rotors and injectors...plus they can soften some of the plastics used in the sleds fuel systems.

Not that cleaners don't have a purpose.. IMO... they are a good Maintenance "tool" that can be run through the season to keep things clean... but if your EFi system is dirty already...don't do it IMO.

Also, with many people fueling from gas-cans... a lot of dirt etc can get into the system... IMO...ALWAYS use a funnel filter and make sure that your cans are always sealed after each use and kept clean inside.... Dont use old fuel no matter how tempted you are.

I use Witch Hunter Performance in Wa. for my cleaning and flow testing of injectors.

I like to be able to depend on my equipment each year... and don't want to leave this stuff to chance.

Also, for you new sled owners out there with extended warranties..the warranty does NOT cover fuel related issues like gummed up injectors etc.
If your motor burns down from clogged injectors... YOU are on the hook for the repairs.

I'm sure some will chime in and say that "I've not had a problem...I never needed to do this..." which is good for them.

All I can say is that the gas HAS changed in the past year or so, it will probably get worse and my riding time is too important to worry about this stuff... Preventive maint can go a long way towards a happy season. :face-icon-small-hap:face-icon-small-hap

My 2 cents.

Check out the Fitch Fuel Catalyst option.......Much less work and lots of good feedback on the forums about these....It really helps address the poor quality gas (ethanol/low octane) issues during storage/idle periods etc.

I'm trying them this year so we'll see

My .02

mountainhorse · Aug 24, 2010

You're serious???

Robbie · Aug 25, 2010

Bad Gas

Use Av gas. $4.50 per gallon and never goes bad. It will always have the same octane as people's lives are at stake.

milehighassassin · Aug 25, 2010

mountainhorse said:
Thanks Matt!

Some race gas will go bad in a couple of days if it gets too hot too.

SEF 94 is much more stable than normal race gas... It really isn't a performance gas... mostly for storage... Better than pump gas by a long shot...but cost is about $9/gallon in 5 gallon pails.

If you are going to spend $9 a gallon why not run race gas, yes it goes bad faster but if you store it properly there should be no worries.

or....

Robbie said:
Use Av gas. $4.50 per gallon and never goes bad. It will always have the same octane as people's lives are at stake.

mountainhorse · Aug 25, 2010

I would be using the SEF 94 ONLY a storage gas... I would not be using it to run the sled for the long term.

SEF94 was specifically designed to have a long shelf life.... sold to mostly fire Depts and other people who store their stuff in higher temps for longer periods of time.

You wouldn't want the "jaws of life" to have starting running problems after sitting in the rig for 2 months in the summer!!:face-icon-small-sho

AV 100LL is not a substitute for 91 pump....

91 pump gas is about 88 MON...
100LL is about 104 MON.

AV Gas would be WAY over-octane for a sled that normally runs 91

It would be much better than pump fuel as a storage-only option... but according to ASTM-D-910 it does not have a super long storage life either.

I spoke with both the engineers at Sunoco and VP... 110 RACE actually does not have a very long shelf life... According to VP.. their 110 has about half the shelf life of the SEF 94...

But, to keep it on topic....

Be mindful of your injection system...Take care of it... It will take care of you!!

milehighassassin · Aug 25, 2010

I see, I thought you were planning on running it. For me I have had good luck with getting the tank as low as possible and then refueling with a known quality fuel. I know places that still sell non-oxygenated fuel. This year I will be blending in about 2 gallons of race with the pump for insurance on the new mods.

I am interested in the injector service and flow test. Pretty cheap. I know for my diesel car I am looking at about $145 per injector.

mountainhorse · Aug 25, 2010

I know places that still sell non-oxygenated fuel.

That may be the case... but it will still have ethanol in it.

Some people have said that they can can still get "Off Road Only" fuel in their area...
I wonder if they have checked since March?

If you are reading this and think you have non ethanol fuel in your area...Please post up the location, name of the business and phone number if you can. Go back there and confirm that it has Zero ethanol and post that up here so that other sledders in your area can benefit from it..

It is mostly the ethanol that is wreaking havoc with the motors and storage... but there are other properties of the gas recently that have it breaking down quickly.

I think that places in Canada still have no ethanol added.

PusherMan99 · Aug 25, 2010

mountainhorse said:
You're serious???

Yep MH....I'm serious....more about life than snowmobiling (although I enjoy that part). I try to do my best to take care of my equipment, but there is a limit to the madness. Everything could fail at some point or another despite our best efforts so don't criticize those of us who don't have the time or money to special order fuel, oil, injector parts and on and on and on.....it never ends

milehighassassin · Aug 25, 2010

mountainhorse said:
That may be the case... but it will still have ethanol in it.

Some people have said that they can can still get "Off Road Only" fuel in their area...
I wonder if they have checked since March?

If you are reading this and think you have non ethanol fuel in your area...Please post up the location, name of the business and phone number if you can. Go back there and confirm that it has Zero ethanol and post that up here so that other sledders in your area can benefit from it..

It is mostly the ethanol that is wreaking havoc with the motors and storage... but there are other properties of the gas recently that have it breaking down quickly.

I think that places in Canada still have no ethanol added.

There is a thread in the Colorado section about this. It needs updated because I know of some places that used to have non-oxygenated but now do. I know there is a place in Idaho Springs that still has a HUGE sign up that says "WE SELL NON-OXYGENTATED FUEL!!!"

I know it is harder and harder to find but it is still out there.

mountainhorse · Aug 25, 2010

PusherMan99 said:
Yep MH....I'm serious....more about life than snowmobiling (although I enjoy that part). I try to do my best to take care of my equipment, but there is a limit to the madness. Everything could fail at some point or another despite our best efforts so don't criticize those of us who don't have the time or money to special order fuel, oil, injector parts and on and on and on.....it never ends

Yep... lots more sides to life than sledding for sure!!

Check back in here with us after the season and let us know how it went.

MORSNO · Aug 25, 2010

mountainhorse said:
That may be the case... but it will still have ethanol in it.

Some people have said that they can can still get "Off Road Only" fuel in their area...
I wonder if they have checked since March?

If you are reading this and think you have non ethanol fuel in your area...Please post up the location, name of the business and phone number if you can. Go back there and confirm that it has Zero ethanol and post that up here so that other sledders in your area can benefit from it..

It is mostly the ethanol that is wreaking havoc with the motors and storage... but there are other properties of the gas recently that have it breaking down quickly.

I think that places in Canada still have no ethanol added.

Alaska also has non ethanol gasoline. The down side to our gas is that premium is only 90 octane (currently $3.59 gallon). However, we do have the advantage of being able to ride in the mountains from sea-level to 5000' in most areas and get full use of our horsepower.

mountainhorse · Aug 25, 2010

The main point here is that even without the ethanol, the fuel in the rails, hoses, pumps, tanks has a very short shelf life these days.

Add to that, warm summer storage that is cooking the fuel in the lines can add up to problems.

IMO, if you want true trouble free performance from your sled... this is good, solid PM.

PowderMiner · Aug 28, 2010

Just wondering if there is any problems using a petroleum based additive such as Sea Foam for engine cleaning and fuel storage?

I’d still drain the stored fuel for the first ride of the season and use it for something else.

My duel sport bike has been giving me problems recently with clogged idle jet and running poorly. I was trying to take the float bowl off and cussing so my neighbor came over with a can of Sea Foam. I put it in the tank shook the bike started it ran it for about 1 minute and it started running better then another 30 seconds and the idle was fine.

robertyoke · Mar 15, 2011

I would not drain the tank or let the fuel rail be left dry, the seals will dry out and next season you will be replacing the pump and injectors, or atleast the o-rings.
been there done that.

if your really concerned about the fuel, drain and refill it at the beginning of next season. personally I'm going to fill the tank and add sta-bil and then next season dump a pint of torco in the tank and ride.

m8sandman · Mar 15, 2011

if you fire up your sled next year without draining the fuel and replacing it with fresh, even if you use stabil, seafoam or whatever you are insane. drain that sucker and replace with fresh, that way you KNOW you have good fuel with the right octane...

like robertyolk said if you leave it empty the seals will dry and crack. i leave a 1/4 tank of fuel in mine, then drain and replace before i fire it up in the winter.

gman086 · Mar 15, 2011

mountainhorse said:
You're serious???

You're skeptical???

Metal alloy fuel catalysts are well known to prevent varnish formation and they have independent ASTM test results to prove it (even our military uses them!). My background is chemistry and chemical engineering. Some of the other claims Fitch makes are stretching things but NOT for prevention of varnish formation!!!

Have FUN!

G MAN

STORAGE, CFI FUEL SYSTEM, INJECTORS,PLUMBING AND OUR CRAPY FUEL THESE DAYS

Well-known member

Well-known member

Matryx 850 Pow Slayer!

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Moderator: Premium Member

Well-known member

Moderator: Premium Member

Well-known member

Moderator: Premium Member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Similar threads