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Snowmobile Photography

J

JROD

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Nov 6, 2004
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Bozeman, MT
So one of my many hobbies is in addition to sledding is photography as many on here know. Well I finally invested in a decent camera and although I've taken a few cool pictures there's some that although the picture is good, I can't point out what is wrong with my shot. Looking for a few suggestions from those who are more experienced regarding things like shutter speed, ISO, aperture settings, white balance, etc. on different days with varying light conditions and trying to get the best quality for action shots. Any tips are appreciated :beer;

Jerrod
 
F
Oct 11, 2009
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For fast action you want a high shutter speed so you will prob need to open your aperture meaning move a couple stops down. Also important to match your white balance to the light conditions ie if its cloudy or really bright out.
 

go high fast

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The main reason i still subscribe to the Snowest magazine is the photography. I know nothing about camera operation but i think a guy could still learn something from how they capture action shots with incredible backgrounds.
 

Dunatic

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shoot in RAW...fix it later ;)

why in the world would you want to shoot in RAW? only thing I would use RAW for is weddings or portraits, when I am shooting sports, I want fps, shooting raw slows that down, not to mention going through of the shots after. If you know what you are doing, jpeg is fine, one of the best things I do when shooting snow is to take a quick wb everytime I stop to shoot, I use an expodisc, works awesome! just takes a couple extra seconds. I mainly use a 70-200 2.8 set at f4, use ISO 200-1600 depending on the day, I crank up the ISO a little when it os crappy out to bump up the shutter speed, the Nikon D3 that I have is incredible at higher ISO.

the only thing I use Photoshop for is to resize, crop and apply the effect I like to use. learn to be a good photographer, then work on photoshop. the more you learn to be a better photographer, the less you will need to use photoshop.
 
why in the world would you want to shoot in RAW? only thing I would use RAW for is weddings or portraits, when I am shooting sports, I want fps, shooting raw slows that down, not to mention going through of the shots after. If you know what you are doing, jpeg is fine, one of the best things I do when shooting snow is to take a quick wb everytime I stop to shoot, I use an expodisc, works awesome! just takes a couple extra seconds. I mainly use a 70-200 2.8 set at f4, use ISO 200-1600 depending on the day, I crank up the ISO a little when it os crappy out to bump up the shutter speed, the Nikon D3 that I have is incredible at higher ISO.

the only thing I use Photoshop for is to resize, crop and apply the effect I like to use. learn to be a good photographer, then work on photoshop. the more you learn to be a better photographer, the less you will need to use photoshop.

yes, RAW is the format you must use if you plan on having any shelf life for your pics. photoshop is set up to deal with it, but capturing great images is the first part which means you need to find great riders and a great location....any of the top ($1000+ cam bodies) digital SLR systems work well, just get a good zoom and play with wide angles (if you have the budget)....and plan on only shooting when you have light. no sun = no good images...use the light to create the texture and feel of your images...with your digital SLR experiment (digital = instant gratification) so take a 8 or 16 gig card and shoot your heart out playing with fstop and action (both take some time to get right)....don't shoot in anything but total manual control and I like to keep things around a 5.6 for exposure (100 ASA - use the slowest speed rating) and adjust the shutter speed until I get what I like....I keep a ND 3 filter on at all times and like to keep things 1/2 to 3/4 of a stop UNDER exposed...just gives you a ton of room in post. hope this helps...just go out a shoot your heart out!

We will be announcing a film/still shooter school later this season for anyone who wants to learn more of the finer details.

Best,

Thomas Opre
 
I
Nov 26, 2007
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why in the world would you want to shoot in RAW?

one of the best things I do when shooting snow is to take a quick wb everytime I stop to shoot

the only thing I use Photoshop for is to resize, crop and apply the effect I like to use. learn to be a good photographer, then work on photoshop. the more you learn to be a better photographer, the less you will need to use photoshop.

My comment was a little tongue in cheek but I like RAW because I don't go riding to take pics so I don't take time to set up shots. If I see a buddy lining up a hit or climb I whip out the camera and try to get a shot in time...I live too far from the mountains to waste a trip with wb or full manual, but props to you guys with the time/patience. Agreed on good photographers not needing PS, I use it as a crutch for sure, but everyone edits their photos to some extent.
 

Scott

Scott Stiegler
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Can't make up my mind between a Canon x1L and a 40d or 50d.
 
H

HighMark Adventures

Well-known member
Nov 26, 2007
208
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Chilliwack
www.highmarkadventures.com
So one of my many hobbies is in addition to sledding is photography as many on here know. Well I finally invested in a decent camera and although I've taken a few cool pictures there's some that although the picture is good, I can't point out what is wrong with my shot. Looking for a few suggestions from those who are more experienced regarding things like shutter speed, ISO, aperture settings, white balance, etc. on different days with varying light conditions and trying to get the best quality for action shots. Any tips are appreciated :beer;

Jerrod

Show us an example with exif data intact. then we can critique it if you like. The good and the bad. Remember taking an image is very subjective and what you like some one else might not. In the end if you happy with it( or your client) then that is all that really matters.


. Shooting in raw does not slow down your fps until your buffer is full. Yes a raw file is larger and will fill the buffer faster than a jpeg. But a jpeg is a compressed file where a lot of info is thrown out. Once gone you can never get it back. Raw gives you so much more power if you are not exact on your settings. Sometimes the action is fast and the conditions changing and a correct exposure 5 seconds ago when the sun was behind the clouds is not going to be the same when the sun comes out. If your in the middle of catching the action you will not have time to correct it as you are shooting. Shoot in raw dude and keep your bursts short to give your buffer a chance to dump and use the fastest card for your camera.

Don`t take my raw advice word or Dunatic`s jpeg advice . Google it and decide for yourself.

A also agree to get it right in camera first and don`t use photoshop as a crutch to make a crappy photo look ok but use it to make a great photo even greater.
 
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J

JROD

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2004
963
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Bozeman, MT
This is all good information. By the way, I'm shooting with a Canon XSi w/ a 18-55mm lens for now. Nothing too special but seems to be a pretty good entry level DSLR. Soon enough my budget will allow for a better variety of lenses. With the higher zoom lenses, are you guys using a tripod or not needing to because of the high shutter speeds? I'm going to throw a few pics in from this weekend and let you guys critique them.

IMG_0328edited.jpg


IMG_0308edited.jpg


IMG_0313.jpg
 
T
Dec 1, 2008
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Carmel, IN
I mostly shoot soccer and mountain biking (much more common place back in Indiana where I live), but plan on taking my gear for my trip out west this year. Interesting seeing everyone's strategies, so I'll share mine too.

For me, I generally:
1. Pick an appropriate minimum shutter speed for most of the pictures I'm going to shoot and setup the auto ISO to bump up the ISO to ensure I meet the minimum I have set (up to whatever max ISO I can tolerate, about 800 on my d70 or 6400 on my d3). Usually for MTB and soccer I'm around 1/500 to ensure I stop the motion.

2. Before each set of shots, get the white balance right. (only takes about 10 seconds with some practice) On sunny days this part is really pretty easy, just use auto for almost anything. Otherwise, the liveview (where the image is displayed on the screen) mode can be fun to play with all the white balance settings since it updates. On the d70, I'm limited to just taking a picture and looking at the preview, which is almost as good. The other little white balance trick I found is to use the manual white balance (Turn to PRE and hold the WB button on nikons) and point the camera at my black camera bag. Its not an expodisc, but 95% of the time, I get good results.

3. Get the exposure compensation setup for each scene. This is the time consuming step for me on snow (mostly because i don't get enough practice).

4. I use aperture priority mode and manually set my aperture based on what I want to do with each shot. Most of the time the 70-200 is on the camera, and I end up around f4, i'll open up to f2.8 if I need some extra light to keep the ISO down, or stop down a little more when I want a crisper background.

On the d70, I shoot exclusively jpg, the camera is just too slow for me in action sports to bother letting it write the raw files. On the d3, I've been playing with raw+jpg when doing something important that i might not get a second chance at. When in brighter light 95% of my jpgs ends up looking just like the tweaked raw file. Where I notice a difference in the raw files is in those shots in poor light where I don't quite get the camera setup in the first place.

The biggest problem that I've had in the past for ski/snowmobile shots is getting things to look anywhere as big and steep as they do in person. I've gotten pretty good in my MTB shots lately and hope my snowsport pics come out better this year. Any tips in this respect though would be appreciated.
 
H

HighMark Adventures

Well-known member
Nov 26, 2007
208
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28
Chilliwack
www.highmarkadventures.com
There is nothing wrong with the camera your using. My first advice is to find yourself a zoom. Now you don`t need to go get a 70-200 f2.8 is usm for 2g`s. Search craigslist or ebay and find yourself a EF 70-300/4-5.6 IS USM You can find them for 300/400 bucks(800 new cdn). It is a mid level lens from canon. Because you will find you will want to "get closer" to the action for sure.

At work but will c&c later
 
J

JROD

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2004
963
223
43
39
Bozeman, MT
There is nothing wrong with the camera your using. My first advice is to find yourself a zoom. Now you don`t need to go get a 70-200 f2.8 is usm for 2g`s. Search craigslist or ebay and find yourself a EF 70-300/4-5.6 IS USM You can find them for 300/400 bucks(800 new cdn). It is a mid level lens from canon. Because you will find you will want to "get closer" to the action for sure.

At work but will c&c later

whats the difference between the EF-S lens I'm using and the EF lens? Feel free to explain some of the lens parameters to me.
 
B
Dec 16, 2007
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Mammoth Lakes, CA
www.pbase.com
uh..wow ..some interesting posts..

Here is my break down on what I do.

What am I shooting for? Am just out riding with my buddies and snapping pics for fun, am I experimenting (learning), or am I doing a specific shoot with the intentions of leaving with publishable materiel.

If I'm just out shooting for fun, I may shot JPG, but mostly likely I'll still shoot RAW. I really see very little reason to shoot JPG. Even if you have no intention of doing any post it's always good to have your files in the highest possible quality.. You'd be surprised at how much random "stock" photos I've sold a couple seasons down the road of which If I wouldn't have shot RAW. I would be SOL, but it also really depends on the day, the weather, and who I'm riding with. If I'm shooting, powder, good riders, bluebird, or unique location..no screwing around high quality possible. With that said "RAW" isn't going to save a bad photo. It just gives you the ability to compensate for choices your camera would have made for via the automatic JPG encoding that takes place in the camera...but that's enough on that.


Aperture, and Shutter speed. I see a lot of people talking about "Aperture" only for the purpose of compensation of light exposure, while shutter speed is used for the ability to stop movement. Personally, the usage of Aperture for depth of Field is very important when it comes to shoot snowmobling, there is a high probability of a distracting background, or an amazing scenic background when you are out shooting. It's important to control your Depth of Field so your photos don't end up just overly distracting. In lower light situations where I can't get the speed I want, I will first give on ISO (within reason) before I compromise my composure.

Full Manual, I often read people talking about shooting "full manual" and how it's the only way to shot.. This always boggles my mind. There is a time and place for Manual, and while I do find my self often shooting manual. It's important to know when is good a time to shoot Shutter Priority, or Aperture Priority. Changing lighting conditions (clouds), wanting to shot "ai servo" ie multiple shots within a given "run" where you may pivot and find lighting conditions changing based on your direction in association with the sun, or the proximity of the target. If say your out with 2-3 of your buds and trying to get shots from different perspectives as they are riding different terrain around you.. Shooting manual may give you a good exposure for 1 angle, but not for all. It's important to decide what your priorities are when shooting, and how far you will compromise one by selecting another (ie.. if you demand a short DOF of 2.8.. where will that put your Shutter speed, can you still stop the action? will you need a ND filter?)

Composure: At first it's very easy, and a lot of fun to just "chase" the action a "spray and pray" mentality. Especially with the high FPS rate of todays cameras. Now this can sometimes (given enough shots) produce some good, to excellent results. More often then not the photo as your imagined it in your mind...is not what your going to end up with, and when it comes to say shooting in a position where you "HAVE" to a have results.. Blasting FPS, and chasing the action just may not get it done. So it's very important to be able to look at an area, talk to your riders and compose a photo. Take into account where the rider will be coming from, the run out, the scene, suns loction, ect ect.. Will they be crossing there own track? Will a tree be sticking out of there head, Will you be able to get those awesome peaks. Will you be able to compose within rule of thirds (do you want?)..

One often over looked part of composing your shot is the relation of you camera to the riders body position.. first off.. Very rarely would anybody want an "*** shot". When it comes to shooting sleds the action comes from the "powder" ... Big sprays from the track up against the bulk head, the ski's in the snow ect, rider getting burred.. ect.. These are things that display movement in your shots. It's very similar to shooting skiing or snowboarding. You also want to watch out for the riders head location, goggles can often be a great center point do the colour they will add on a white out days.

With that said, what I try to do is survey an area before (if possible) and try to come up with a scene in my head as to how I want the shot to look. I then talk to the riders and explain to them what we are going for. This will allow you to do things like, precompose, prefocus, ect.. VS Slapping the camere in AI Servo and chasing the rider into your target zone then bursting away. (Which does have it's place).

White Balance: A quick custom balance with a white card or shooting the snow usually get the trick done.

Snow Exposure: I usually find shooting up to a 1 stop faster helps with proper exposure for snow.

Equipment: try to stick to your most used lens on the body.. you want to minimize changing lenses ect.. I've had stuff fog up on me..never a good thing.

Keep shooting until you find your style. When I first started getting serious with photography I was using a Canon 10d. I would dream of moving to a Mark II to get FPS FPS FPS FPS whenever I was out shooting with my basically "1 shot" 10d. Don't get me wrong I got some GREAT shots with my 10d, but when I eventually switched to the Mark II. I found the being able to shoot as many frames per second as I wanted wasn't how I had planned it. It actually hindered my photography. My photos were coming out random, and not what I had envisioned. Chasing the action and spraying was fun at first..but at the end every year I look back at my photos from the previous year and try to improve.. It does me no good say getting the exact same half pipe shot I took 3 years ago... Now..which is what happens when you just spray and don't compose your shots.

What it really boils down to is why you are shooting, and what you hope to achieve. This year is going to be a little different for me, as I picked up a g11 as my camera of choice for all none "preplanned shoots" I will still be using my dslr setup when I know I have something serious going on, but for the most part I want to just capture what riding means to me, my friends, and generally good times, vs what I've done in previous years which is say try to show "how epic" riding is via the "ok meet me an hour before sunrise we need to get to this location, and shoot this hill when the golden light is x y z." I'll still be doing some of that, but not as much.

anyways.. doesn't really answer your questions as It's a bit more of a philosophical rant about photography..but I already typed it out, and it's way to ****ing long so I'm just going to hit submit and shut up now.
 
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Dunatic

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Shooting in raw does not slow down your fps until your buffer is full. Yes a raw file is larger and will fill the buffer faster than a jpeg. But a jpeg is a compressed file where a lot of info is thrown out. Once gone you can never get it back. Raw gives you so much more power if you are not exact on your settings. Sometimes the action is fast and the conditions changing and a correct exposure 5 seconds ago when the sun was behind the clouds is not going to be the same when the sun comes out. If your in the middle of catching the action you will not have time to correct it as you are shooting. Shoot in raw dude and keep your bursts short to give your buffer a chance to dump and use the fastest card for your camera.

Brain fart on my part... you are right, RAW does not slow down fps, just fills up the buffer twice as fast. It is just personal preference... part of the reason I do not like RAW is because of the space it takes up, and I think shooting jpeg will make you a better photographer, just my opinion....
 
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