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Johnrodgers
12-02-2009, 07:06 PM
Here is my chrisis, i just ordered an abs backpack shovel and probes but i held off on ordering the beacon. i didnt order it because the lady who was helping me told me that you could not get s.o.s beacons anymore, and this was the beacon that my best friend and his dad have and they are who i ride with. i am not familiar with beacons at all so i dont know if certain onces are compatible with eachother. the lady recomended the backcountry beacon to me, and clamed i should get a digital one, were as my friend and dads s.o.s are analog. i dont know the difference between digital and analog so if anyone could enlighten me on what i should do in terms of purchase and explain to me the diffference between the two i would really appreciate it, thanks in advance.

columbus
12-02-2009, 07:30 PM
The SOS beacon is an old style analog beacon that will be much harder to search with and ill require a ton of practice to be an effective search tool. Get a digital beacon, newer the better. The BCA Tracker DTS has been pretty much the standard for digital beacons for a while and is very effective and proven but all the manufacturers (including BCA with the Tracker 2) are now offering newer beacons that are much more effective. By effective I mean longer range and ease of searching, especially with multiple burials. As for compatability, all beacons operating at 457 will work wih eachother. All beacons have been manufactured with this frequency for over 10 years.

If your buddies are using old SOS analog beacons, make extra sure they practice a lot, those beacons are reliable and have good range but are difficult to use, especially in a multiple burial situation.

Johnrodgers
12-03-2009, 12:52 AM
my friend is picking me up one of the last sos beacons available tomorrow at a local store. and i already planned on practicing with it a lot. thanks for the info.

rkbrkr
12-03-2009, 10:38 AM
my friend is picking me up one of the last sos beacons available tomorrow at a local store. and i already planned on practicing with it a lot. thanks for the info.

probly to late but FYI every body i've road with that did not have a tracker could not wait to get one as they are simple to use. but i guess as long as you know how to use the one you have and most importantly you have one! just thought i'd try to save you some hastle

MVR
12-03-2009, 01:20 PM
my friend is picking me up one of the last sos beacons available tomorrow at a local store. and i already planned on practicing with it a lot. thanks for the info.

Unless you are a winter professional i.e. avalanche pro, ski patroller, guide, etc who uses the beacon and practices daily, you will never be as fast with the analog as you can become in a couple hours with the digital. And as the folks mentioned earlier, your digital will work fine with any beacon on the 457mhz frequency.

Be sure you couple your equipment and technology with solid avalanche training. Ideally a rider will have the training first, technology second. If you find yourself needing to use the beacon, the mistake has already been made.

While I am here, here are a couple facts to remember:

Statistically, 1 in 4 avalanche victims are killed by trauma (crushed, run into trees, rocks, off cliffs, etc.) the beacon will only be effective for 3 of 4 buried victims who would otherwise die of asphyxiation. I don't know about you, but I don't like those odds.

On an avalanche accident scene the average recreationist will find buried victims alive 42% of the time by RANDOM PROBING...think about that- RANDOM!...they will find the buried victim alive only 32% of the time with transceivers.(think probes are important to have???)
Keep in mind this is for the average recreationist or non-professional. For those folks that are pros in the field these numbers are far different(much higher percentage found sooner with transceiver)...the difference is in the user's ability and comfort level using transceivers in an emergency because of practice, practice, practice!

Didn't mean to be so long winded here...

be safe out there.

Johnrodgers
12-03-2009, 04:12 PM
i have already bought a shovel and probes, and i am now just awaiting the arrival of the abs pack i ordered. i would purchase a digital beacon if that is what my group were using since i would want to have equipment to their standards. but i dont see the point in me investing in a digital beacon when the rest are using analog, i am simply putting more money into the safety of them then they are of me not that there is a problem with that but i just plan on becoming as proficient as possible with my analog model.

Ex-Member
12-03-2009, 04:18 PM
Doesn't work that way, dude.

All beacons, whether analog or digital, transmit the same signal.

The difference between digital and analog lies in the receiver ("Search" mode).

A person using a digital beacon will find either an analog or digital beacon a LOT faster than someone without training/practice using an analog beacon will find either.

I'd question your buddies sometime. Toss a beacon out into the snow, then tell them to go find it. They don't do it in <10mins, i'd find new riding buddies. Or tell them to figure out how to use their beacons.

KSH
12-03-2009, 04:30 PM
i have already bought a shovel and probes, and i am now just awaiting the arrival of the abs pack i ordered. i would purchase a digital beacon if that is what my group were using since i would want to have equipment to their standards. but i dont see the point in me investing in a digital beacon when the rest are using analog, i am simply putting more money into the safety of them then they are of me not that there is a problem with that but i just plan on becoming as proficient as possible with my analog model.


I ride with two different groups, One group has all digital beacons the other is a mix of both but mostly analog.

Not that either group rides nasty stuff, but It's definitely in the back of my mind that I can find group two members faster than they can find me.

MVR
12-03-2009, 05:58 PM
I have taught a lot of riders to use a digital beacon who already owned an analog beacon... they decide that they waisted their money on the analog after 10 minutes or less with the digital.

Just don't want to see people waste their money on a substandard piece of equipment...one extra minute on a search can mean the difference between life and death.

columbus
12-04-2009, 01:26 AM
i have already bought a shovel and probes, and i am now just awaiting the arrival of the abs pack i ordered. i would purchase a digital beacon if that is what my group were using since i would want to have equipment to their standards. but i dont see the point in me investing in a digital beacon when the rest are using analog, i am simply putting more money into the safety of them then they are of me not that there is a problem with that but i just plan on becoming as proficient as possible with my analog model.

Judging by the picture of your avatar which I assume is your sled, you know what a good ride is. To compare beacons to sleds: An old SOS analog beacon is the equivalent of riding a 97 summit 670. It might get you there but it will take a lot longer and a lot more work. If your buddy is buried do you really want his life depending on outdated technology? More money? whats the price difference? $50-$100?? drop in the bucket bud

Chief
12-04-2009, 05:21 PM
I've practiced with my digital beacon; taken avy courses that included both searches with and without a beacon; used the beacon training station at least once or twice a season for the last three or so seasons..

I can usually locate a buried beacon in less then 10 minutes in a fairly large area.

I took my wife, spending just 10 or 15 minutes explaining how to use the BCA tracker beacon to her in the truck, to the beacon training station and she found the target buried beacon in about 7 mintues... with an analog beacon neither she or I could have found it.. maybe ever..

BUY DIGITAL.. One of the newer three antenna models.. There is nothing else you want to take to the mountains.

RGM
12-04-2009, 06:47 PM
Judging by the picture of your avatar which I assume is your sled, you know what a good ride is. To compare beacons to sleds: An old SOS analog beacon is the equivalent of riding a 97 summit 670. It might get you there but it will take a lot longer and a lot more work. If your buddy is buried do you really want his life depending on outdated technology? More money? whats the price difference? $50-$100?? drop in the bucket bud

^^^^^I find it amazing that you can still buy a new analog beacon. I will give you 50 bucks for your working analog beacon on a trade in for a Pieps DSP priced at 449.99 + shipping (difference of 399.00 in CDN $ + shipping). It time to retire those old beacons

mynewuseddoo
05-19-2010, 03:29 AM
i would purchase a digital beacon if that is what my group were using since i would want to have equipment to their standards. but i dont see the point in me investing in a digital beacon when the rest are using analog, i am simply putting more money into the safety of them then they are of me not that there is a problem with that but i just plan on becoming as proficient as possible with my analog model.

If you were my riding buddy and I read that you were concerned about investing more money than I had in beacon then we wouldn't be riding buddies anymore, it sounds petty to say the least. You say afterward that "there isn't a problem with that" but obviuosly there is.......because you brought it up. Its like telling someone to pi$$ off but saying "with all due respect" before you tell them to pi$$ off, you still told them to pi$$ off. I'm sorry as I am a little late coming into this thread but what an ignorant attitude towards the safety of your normal and potential riding partners. I live in BC and I honestly hope I never run into you. I ride with a lot of different people in a lot of different areas and of course everyone I have ever met is all about practicing everyday of the week with their beacons to know them inside and out......come on buddy who are you fooling? We have avalanch training and do practice now and again but every ride? Who honestly takes an hour out of the day to do a big group practice session with the beacons to make sure everyone is fully up to snuff for the day? Not many and not anyone I have ever.......EVER run into on the hill.....EVER!!! GO DIGITAL and pull your head out of your bum sir!!! Welcome to the year 2010 we have learned through the advancement in technology that there are better ways of doing things. You may not have understood any of the previouse posts before you typed this and the digital beacon, its compatable with EVERY BEACON PRODUCED IN THE LAST TEN+ YEARS!!!!

Trenchmaster
05-19-2010, 02:08 PM
The last responce was a little over the top in my opinion, the SOS will work fine for anyone willing to learn how to use it. When the Tracker first came out our group did a practice session with our beacons. The SOS found the signal first every time as the range was much better. The Tracker was for sure faster once the signal was located but the SOS still got the job done. I still use my SOS as I am comfortable with it. I let the wife or kid use the Tracker as it is easier, but to say that using the SOS is putting your riding buddies life in danger is complete BS !!!

mynewuseddoo
05-19-2010, 11:44 PM
Then what is the ultimate point of purchasing something which is not as easy to use or can't locate a victim as quickly, especialy for someone who has no experience with a beacon to begin with. My over the topness was directed at his attitude of him putting more money into his riding buddies safety than he felt they were putting into his. That is just a terrible thing to say and a terrible attitude towards safety.....anyone dissagree? I work in an industry where safety is everyone concern and his comment flipped a switch. I hope he reads my comments and has a change of heart. Trenchmaster I know that the SOS will "get the job done", a shovel will dig a ditch but a back hoe will dig it faster and more efficiently......see where I'm going with this.

mynewuseddoo
05-19-2010, 11:50 PM
Oh sorry one more thing. I never said anywhere that using an SOS beacon would put anyones life in danger, not sure where you read that. Something is better than nothing but something better.....well...

backcountryislife
05-20-2010, 07:15 AM
GO DIGITAL and pull your head out of your bum sir!!! Welcome to the year 2010



Yeah, that.

Saying you don't want to spend more on them than they did on you is the most idiotic & selfish statement that I have ever heard when it comes to avy safety.

I've invested TONS of $$ & time into avy safety FOR EVERYONE ELSE as well as myself. I just traded in my digital beacon for one that works even better in a multiple situation, how does that help ME? It doesn't. This isn't a selfish sport & avy safety should be the least selfish part of the sport.

They shouldn't even allow those junk beacons to be sold anymore. You can claim that with enough practice you can find someone, but with 1/4 the practice on a newer beacon... most of us CAN FIND THEM WHILE THEY'RE STILL ALIVE! Btw, I've been dealing with beacons since the f1, then the M1, M2.... I've used (and thought I was fast with) the old beacons, they're great to buy as antiques to put on the wall, that's about it.

backcountryislife
05-20-2010, 07:22 AM
On an avalanche accident scene the average recreationist will find buried victims alive 42% of the time by RANDOM PROBING...think about that- RANDOM!...they will find the buried victim alive only 32% of the time with transceivers.(think probes are important to have???)
Keep in mind this is for the average recreationist or non-professional. For those folks that are pros in the field these numbers are far different(much higher percentage found sooner with transceiver)...the difference is in the user's ability and comfort level using transceivers in an emergency because of practice, practice, practice!

Mvr,

I'm curious how old those numbers are, or more realistically, mow far back that data spreads?

The reason I ask is that I believe that it goes right to the point of this conversation, that with the newer beacons I believe the average time should be going down significantly from what it was with analog, so the further back the data spread on those numbers, the less accurate it would be.

Not meant as an argument, just curious, but I sure hope that these days we're all faster than that. (ten years ago though, those numbers would make sense to me)

Trenchmaster
05-20-2010, 11:23 AM
[QUOTE=mynewuseddoo;2295063]Oh sorry one more thing. I never said anywhere that using an SOS beacon would put anyones life in danger, not sure where you read that.




No you did not actually say using the SOS would put your riding buddies life in danger. I re-read your post and that was still the overall message that I got from what you said. Some of the other comments on this thread seem to agree with you. " They should'nt even allow those junk beacons to be sold anymore " A few years ago we buried a beacon about a 100 yards away and started to search. The guy with the Tracker walked around in circles for five minutes and never did get a signal, I found the signal right away with my SOS and found the buried beacon in a few minutes. When we found the signal and got close enough for the Tracker to work it was faster for sure, but which one was better? Maybe the newer ones have more range.

backcountryislife
05-20-2010, 11:45 AM
Maybe the newer ones have more range.

bingo.

http://beaconreviews.com/transceivers/images/RangeChart_457000-2010-01-24.gif

a little tidbit about the sos from beaconreviews.com http://beaconreviews.com/transceivers/Specifications.asp#SOS_F1-ND

"The sales information for the SOS F1-ND touts it as a digital beacon, but the only thing digital about this beacon are the LED lights. The sales pitch also implies you can follow the lights, but that is not true unless you know how to line-up the transceiver with the flux lines. Bottom line: this is a single-antenna analog beacon.
Summary: Other than the "digital" marketing, the SOS F1 is very similar to the Ortovox F1.

Controls: The SOS turns on by twisting a 90 bayonet plug similar to many of the Ortovox transceivers. You enable transmit or receive (search) modes by moving a slide switch."


Is it better than searching with a soup can in your hand... of course. Does it compare to the technology & ease of the CURRENT digital beacons... not even close. Yes, with a ton of time invested, you could likely keep up with me on my first search with my S1, a pieps dsp or a pulse. After that person has spent a fraction of the time though... they're going to be faster which means my buddy is more likely to be alive.


OP, be glad you've got an airbag... cause I wouldn't leave my life in the hands of your buddies!!!!

Trenchmaster
05-20-2010, 03:56 PM
The technology might not be the latest and best out there, but I'm sure glad my friends don't tell me that I have to have a certain level of equipment to go riding with them. I don't know about the SOS sales tactics, seems kind of greasy if they are trying to say it's a digital beacon, but your graph shows the SOS as having twice the range of the Tracker DTS, 65 metres compared to 35 metres. The Tracker DTS is the beacon I see most of my riding buddies use, I'm glad we have both in our group.

Scott
05-20-2010, 04:09 PM
What I can say with my experience is....

We've had the newest Tracker DTS beacons along with a handfull of 12 year old SOS analog beacons.

We gave them (3 of the DTS and 3 of the SOS) to a bunch of inexperienced 12 year-olds with a couple of minutes worth of instruction about search techniqes and flux lines...and sent them on their way to find the buried beacon or beacons.


We made sure each kid went back and forth and tried both types of beacon a couple of times.
For two straight days and 75 different kids and probably 10 more adults using them.....

(ALWAYS USED FRESH BATTERIES EACH DAY)

The kids who used the old black and yellow analog SOS beacons found the flux lines FASTER and they follwed them to the buried beacon FASTER and more consistently than the kids using the new DTS.

The kids with the old SOS beacons found their victim QUICKER than those with the DTS.


The analog radio beacons have a faster reaction time to crossing the flux line than the DTS. They beep and light up quicker as you sweep across the path. With the DTS you have to pan slower and give it time to react.

I have done this with kids for 7 years...and each year that we have these DTS beacons to use we find the same result.

Trenchmaster
05-20-2010, 05:00 PM
The kids with the old SOS beacons found their victim QUICKER than those with the DTS.


Can't be true!! they should'nt even be allowed to sell those junk beacons anymore (sarcasm)

backcountryislife
05-20-2010, 07:52 PM
Scott, I see what you're saying, but just find that so contrary to what we see on a regular basis on the snow in classes & in get togethers. Btw, current technology (not a 10 year old tracker dts, still a good beacon, but a ways from current) is much faster. The tracker 2, s1, pieps, pulse... are all MUCH faster in overall response to movement. Also if you look at the range on any of these it's notably farther than the original tracker.

I can understand how an analog can get you on track quicker, I just find it hard to believe that they got all the way to the beacon quicker than with a digital.

Scott
05-21-2010, 09:04 AM
Scott, I see what you're saying, but just find that so contrary to what we see on a regular basis on the snow in classes & in get togethers. Btw, current technology (not a 10 year old tracker dts, still a good beacon, but a ways from current) is much faster. The tracker 2, s1, pieps, pulse... are all MUCH faster in overall response to movement. Also if you look at the range on any of these it's notably farther than the original tracker.

I can understand how an analog can get you on track quicker, I just find it hard to believe that they got all the way to the beacon quicker than with a digital.


I know...I couldn't believe it either. I also had Ben Adkison from the Missoula Avy Center there with me. He and I both saw the results the same. It was weird. I didn't want to believe what we were seeing...but Ben already knew that it was happening. He had seen it before. The search area was about 30 yards wide and 30 yards deep. Just over a 1/4 of a football field. Snow base was about 4 feet deep with about 10" of old fresh on top.

The kids found the flux lines faster with the SOS than the with the DTS and were usually the first ones to find the buried beacon.

Ben told me the computer processors in the digital systems can't react as fast as the analog radio systems.

It might be in part because the newer ones only grab onto that signal when it has a good one, when it knows it's not false...(making it slower to react) then it locks onto that signal and it also holds onto it longer after it leaves the flux line...but the analog is more finicky that picks up and gives up the signal quicker. THUS making it appear that it reacts quicker.

No matter how it works, in this case the kids took the old SOS beacons to the victim quicker almost every time. Probably 9 out of 10 times.

The kids were even coming back and wanting to trade each their DTS beacons to get the SOS so they could win. LOL.

It sorta reinforces the old saying that you just need to know your equipment.

edit: It was the Tracker, and not the Tracker2 that we were using.

http://www.gearzone.com/v/vspfiles/photos/753720-2T.jpg

http://www.lakeeffectsupply.com/Flake/images/bca-tracker.jpg

mynewuseddoo
05-21-2010, 09:45 AM
I like the new generation, 3 antena, Analog/digital beacons. They have the range and speed of the analog and the precision of the digital. They also are extremely usefull in deeper burials with drasticaly reducing spikes and getting you driectly over the victim and not a meter on either side of them. Like I said before technology has come a long way and there are better options. I also apparently said that the SOS was endangering lives and once again I read my post and I don't know where that came from. I would like to see the SOS go against a Peips, Pulse, or S1. They, as we can see by the graph and by web sites who test these units, are the next evolution and much more accurate, efficient and also have the range that straight analog technology has as well. There is no doubt that the SOS will find a victim. Will it find that victim as fast and efficiently as one of the three I mentioned? Thats debateable but I would put my money on no, especialy for a guy who has no experience with beacons. My original post was towards this guys attitude regarding the safety of others and I am sorry you got that misconstruded Trenchmaster. In my opinion I want the best beacon possible. Not for my self but because when someone is burried it comes down to seconds and that is a plain and simple fact. I would prefer to dig out a buddy who was still concious or at least revivable, not one who is gone. Literaly the difference between revivable and unrevivable is seconds. Luck favors the prepared.

Scott
05-21-2010, 10:01 AM
As for compatability, all beacons operating at 457 will work wih eachother. All beacons have been manufactured with this frequency for over 10 years.




Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that the industry standard of 457mhz has been in place since the 1970s.

SnowBigDeal
05-21-2010, 12:45 PM
Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that the industry standard of 457mhz has been in place since the 1970s.

The industry standard of 457kHz was adopted in 1996. Before that there were essentially two frequencies (2.275 kHz and 457kHz).

Scott
05-21-2010, 12:51 PM
The industry standard of 457kHz was adopted in 1996. Before that there were essentially two frequencies (2.275 kHz and 457kHz).


OK, I gotcha.
It may be that I am just thinking about when the 457 frequency was first intro'd. Is that more accurate?

backcountryislife
05-21-2010, 05:34 PM
The industry standard of 457kHz was adopted in 1996. Before that there were essentially two frequencies (2.275 kHz and 457kHz).

Cade, I know you know the beacons better than me, but I'm pretty sure it was in the eighties (I just looked, looks like you just typo'd, it was 1986). I got into BC around 93 & it was already the standard.

Not a clue when the first ones were.


btw, trenchmaster... I'm perfectly fine with eating my words if I'm wrong!!! I think if you used today's beacons (in scott's test) it would be a VERY different story though.

Edit:
This got me thinking about using the different beacons, so I took a couple of our trackers & an S1 outside. My Wife & I are used to the tracker, but with no time on the S1, she blew away her times with the tracker using the S1. In a multiple situation, it's laughable (well, not really all that funny) how poor the tracker is compared to the S1. With a bit of time on the S1 I can find 2 in nearly the time that I can find one with the bca (finding the first one when there's two of them that is).

The pieps & pulse both seem to have similar results to what I get with the S1 in multiples btw.

Trenchmaster
05-22-2010, 11:11 AM
of course everyone I have ever met is all about practicing everyday of the week with their beacons to know them inside and out......come on buddy who are you fooling? We have avalanch training and do practice now and again but every ride? Who honestly takes an hour out of the day to do a big group practice session with the beacons to make sure everyone is fully up to snuff for the day? Not many and not anyone I have ever.......EVER run into on the hill.....EVER!!! GO DIGITAL and pull your head out of your bum sir!!!



Mynewuseddoo, once again I will agree that you never used the words, using an analog beacon will put your riding buddies life in danger. It sure seems to me that the comments I quoted from your post are saying just that. Your post just rubbed me the wrong way, thats all.

Trenchmaster
05-22-2010, 11:28 AM
btw, trenchmaster... I'm perfectly fine with eating my words if I'm wrong!!! I think if you used today's beacons (in scott's test) it would be a VERY different story though.



I'm sure you are probably right about the new beacons out performing the older stuff. It just bugged me when Mynewuseddoo ragged all over the guy about buying an SOS instead of a new digital. I could afford a newer beacon but I'm comfortable with my SOS, we all decide how we are going to spend our money and it's a personal choice.

backcountryislife
05-22-2010, 05:18 PM
I'm sure you are probably right about the new beacons out performing the older stuff. It just bugged me when Mynewuseddoo ragged all over the guy about buying an SOS instead of a new digital. I could afford a newer beacon but I'm comfortable with my SOS, we all decide how we are going to spend our money and it's a personal choice.

TM,

I think the thing that rubbed both of us the wrong were his comments about not wanting to spend more on his friends than they're spending on him. That was one of the most ignorant, selfish things that I've read in quite a while & that kind of thing tends to bring out a bit more pissy attitudes in other people.

I think we wanted to rag on him no matter what he was buying just because of what he said.

I will give you, I'd rather see someone with an old sos than nothing, plain & simple!

mynewuseddoo
05-23-2010, 12:30 AM
Thank you backcountry!!! Like i said before TM my original post and the over the topness was about this guys attitude.....thats it. I still don't know where you are getting any hint that I was even implying that SOS beacons are hazards and dangerous.......they are quite obviously better that nothing and I am sure they have found plenty of victims in the past and still today. For anyone to make a statement like the one I "apparently" implied would be just plain ignorant.

So for the record.......

Ole Johnrodgers attitude towards safety is pi$$ poor in my opinion.

There are better beacons with the same range as the old analog beacons

and I never implied that SOS beacons are a danger or a hazard......because that would be plain ignorant and then Mr Johnrodgers and I would both have our heads up our arses.

Like backcountry said, doesn't matter what this guys would have bought for a beacon, his attitude and comments toward safety stink and in my opinion he should just stay home. If someone is burried and its him and someone else digging is he going to be concerned if he moves more snow than the other guy? Just sayin....

SnowBigDeal
05-23-2010, 10:20 AM
Cade, I know you know the beacons better than me, but I'm pretty sure it was in the eighties (I just looked, looks like you just typo'd, it was 1986). I got into BC around 93 & it was already the standard.


Kaleb,

The early frequency of 2.275 kHz was used through the 70's & 80's, then in 1986 the standard became 457kHz. However, up until 1996 a lot of beacons operated on both frequencies (2.257 kHz and 457kHz). In 1996 EVERYONE adopted the 457kHz frequency, including the manufacturers, the standards boards, and the testers. So yes, we are both correct. 1986 and 1996 is when the standard was adopted :face-icon-small-coo

backcountryislife
05-23-2010, 07:25 PM
Cade, just looked into it more, you were right. There was one agency that made it a standard in 86, then astm made it a standard in 96... Man, eating my words TWICE IN ONE THREAD... killin me here.:face-icon-small-hap

Scott
05-23-2010, 08:43 PM
Kaleb,

The early frequency of 2.275 kHz was used through the 70's & 80's, then in 1986 the standard became 457kHz. However, up until 1996 a lot of beacons operated on both frequencies (2.257 kHz and 457kHz). In 1996 EVERYONE adopted the 457kHz frequency, including the manufacturers, the standards boards, and the testers. So yes, we are both correct. 1986 and 1996 is when the standard was adopted :face-icon-small-coo


OK, I was pretty sure that 457 had been intro'd in the 1970s. Thanks for helping me....I knew I wasn't crazy.

imdoo'n
05-24-2010, 01:05 PM
not sure why you guys are on his azz, he wants the same beacon as his buds, because they can help him figure it out. any one who doesn't practice with their beacons at least once per riding weekend is dangerous, has no idea if his beacon is working or not. check your ego at the trail head. if you ride with less experienced riders, not doing beacon training can get you killed, and i don't see how a digital beacon will change this. i have both a tracker beacon and a sos find sb. both work well, a new rider will have trouble with either, tracker trouble starts as you get closer, short range, slow. sos you have to turn signal down as you approach buried transmitter, check signal direction and go, basic and simple. how fast can you go in waist deep snow,
digital beacons are the way to go, but they seem to have there problems, try to make the decisions for you. practice will make you proficient at there use.
i'll ride with someone who knows how to use an analog beacon any time.

backcountryislife
05-24-2010, 02:39 PM
not sure why you guys are on his azz, he wants the same beacon as his buds, because they can help him figure it out.

Ummm... read above, this is not the case & not what he said.


As for your question as to why, it's been stated a couple times.

but i dont see the point in me investing in a digital beacon when the rest are using analog, i am simply putting more money into the safety of them then they are of me .

mynewuseddoo
05-25-2010, 08:20 AM
He's got ya there imdoo'n. All of this is because of the second statement by Johnrodgers which was quoted in backcountries post. You can't argue with what johnny wrote about being concerned with spending more to save someone eles than what they spent on him. And backcountry and I are both in agreeance that it wouldn't matter what this guy bought, his statement is just plain ignorant. Try rereading the posts again for what they are and don't read into them. It is simply a case of this guys attitued toward safety. We both admit the SOS is more than capable of locating a burried beacon but there are better choices out there with the new 3 antena digital/analog beacons especialy in close proximity because of there ability to eliminate spikes and get you where you need to be not one meter or so on either side of the victim. This helps in the speed of the probing aspect of the search. A little research on the subject will uncover droves of info, just need to look. Try one of the new gen beacons and then let us know what you think. But once again don't take this out of context, this was all about a persons attitued toward safety, thats it.

imdoo'n
05-30-2010, 11:27 AM
you guys getting this upset with a 17 yr old kid, he is better off with the same beacon as his buds, so they can help him out in using the beacon. throw in a new digital beacon, and he is on his own. tried out a new pieps unit, nice flashy, but left it on the counter, the old sos sb beacon still has more range, won,t cost me $500.00, less confusing. but when the sos craters, i'll take another look at the digital beacons.
can't see you guys changing his mind with the internet beat down attitude. give the guy the info he needs to make an informed decision. as long as he has a beacon and knows how to use it he is good to go. you guys need to lighten up.

mynewuseddoo
06-01-2010, 08:32 AM
Dear imdoo'n...

Tone cannot be conveyed in text and I think you may be reading the wrong tone into it. You might picture a guy typing furiously on his keyboard shouting "this guys attitude is garbage"......this is not the case. I can only speak for myself and I can tell you I am not an angry person nore do I type posts in that manner. The tone you can read into this post would be relaxed, and the setting you can picture would be something out of the intro to master piece theater... you know....roaring fire and books in the background, me sipping cognac and writing this with a quill and ink whilst sitting in a grand chair in my plush housecoat. You might read my responses to ole johnny boy with a kind of smart assed tone kinda like " hey johnrodgers...give your head a shake and think about safety in a different way".

You know the thought that would go through your head....you know the one, when Ex President Bush would talk about the war and have that smart assed grin on his face while he was doing it. Didn't you just want to cuff him up side the head and say "hey dip $h!t....when you talk about war, you're supposed to use the frouny face!! Take that tone I guess. Your not giving him a, (quote "internet beat down"), just hoping he reads it and then maybe changes his view about the relationship between monitary value and human life. (johnrodgers not bush.....he's a saint LOL!!)

If he does read this then what would get the point accross to him better, imdoo'n?

Oh pillow feathers, you are sure are incorrect in your post johnrodgers....or

Hey bud! How bout you think about your budds lives in stead of thinking about a couple of bucks and give your head a shake...

I think number two is more effective......it is more effective at putting the point across and at grabing the audience.....like it did you. Would you have joined in if I wrote the first or would you have completely missed the point on what this is really about......attitude towards safety.


(use calm tone here)Oh and the "flashy" Peips which has less range will pin point better than yours and speed up the probing aspect of the search. You seem to be stuck on range so here's another for you imdoo'n. The Barryvox pulse which in your opinion may be "flashy", has more range than yours and will also pin point better above the victim (spikes) and speed up the probing aspect of the search.(use calm tone here)

I think I am done with this thread, talking in circles. People just seem to see anger and don't actualy read the posts for what they are. They also don't throughly read them as we can see by imdoo'n comparing the shortest rage next gen beacon to make his look better. But once again I'm not saying by any means that ANY analog beacon is bad. I am simply saying that there are better options available these days.

backcountryislife
06-01-2010, 01:34 PM
It's interesting looking at that comparison graph above, I had thought that the Pieps was the big daddy for range, I'm surprised to see that the pulse beats it (and the sos) with the S1 being close behind.

MNUD... I can't believe you just put down G.W.B. on a sled forum... prepare for the wrath!! (just don't say anything about Reagan & it'll all be OK!!!)

It's just like masterpiece theater in here... plenty of drama!!!:face-icon-small-hap

mynewuseddoo
06-01-2010, 07:41 PM
LOL!! Thanks for the heads up backcountry. I figured that may stir the pot a little but it was the only comparison that popped in my head at the time LOL!!

imdoo'n
06-03-2010, 02:57 AM
man you need to relax a little, maybe have a few or something. you could tell him he would get a much better beacon for only a few bucks more, may be easier to use, may also be more operator friendly. may be his buds upon seeing his new beacon would be more likely to upgrade, i don't know there are all kinds of ways.
you don't like my comparison, to dam bad. i still say when the old sos sb dies i'll look into a new digital beacon, until then, i use what i have and understand. i'm sure you will be very happy with your new barryvox.

no matter what you use practice is the answer, as in an avi situation you are a little late.

backcountryislife
06-04-2010, 06:52 AM
man you need to relax a little,

We both did some breathing exercises & some stretching... you feel better now?

I don't care how old he is, the statement he made was just something that makes your stomach drop. I spend money on the best available technology because other people's lives matter to me. (kinda a lot) If they're not that much of a priority to you... that's your choice, but it's not the way I want to go about this sport.

I've had a number of friends die kayaking, having faced this I have no desire to EVER have there be a situation where we could have made a difference but didn't because we didn't put EVERYTHING we had into getting someone out.

One of my kayaking buddies died on a river that I was going to paddle with them, but decided not to. Had I been there he would have lived, as I carry a particular device that allows someone to breathe a few feet under the water... he died with his head about 16" under water. Nobody else had one of these devices. Short story long, what you carry makes a difference. You can carry a 20+ year old technology, I'm not going to, I just think other people's lives are worth more than a couple hundred dollars. (it's not about being "happy" when it's a tool that saves other people's lives)

imdoo'n
06-05-2010, 10:45 AM
are you trying to convince me or yourself. i know it's not working on me. the sos i understand and can use. the new digital's have there own problems, check around, a new guy is going to be confused big time, without a bit of practice time. you guys stated you don't do any beacon checks, i think that is irresponsible and very dangerous. how do you know everyone can use there beacons or if they are turned on. you also state you have no avi training, starting to sound a little spooky to me. get off your high horse, take a little breather, before you blow an artery. jimmy baker was a preacher look where it got him.

backcountryislife
06-06-2010, 07:09 PM
are you trying to convince me or yourself. i know it's not working on me. the sos i understand and can use. the new digital's have there own problems, check around, a new guy is going to be confused big time, without a bit of practice time. you guys stated you don't do any beacon checks, i think that is irresponsible and very dangerous. how do you know everyone can use there beacons or if they are turned on. you also state you have no avi training, starting to sound a little spooky to me. get off your high horse, take a little breather, before you blow an artery. jimmy baker was a preacher look where it got him.

What the F*** are you talking about??? If your brain isn't turned on, you should stay away from the keyboard.

#1: Newer beacons are even more simple, claiming that someone would be more confused by a pulse, pieps, or S1 is a asinine statement.

#2: Who said they don't do beacon checks??? Since you seem to be responding to MY post... not sure who's back end you're pulling this from?

#3: Who said they don't have avy training???? Do you really think that someone who is posting in here trying to help people & increase overall awareness would have zero avy training???

Oh and, yeah... I try really hard to convince myself that all that silly time & money I waste on avy equipment is the "cool" thing to do.
As for "checking around", take your own advice... do you think there's a reason maybe that one of the sites that reviews them borderline makes fun of the SOS???


I thought we were having an interesting conversation/ debate... then all the sudden your head disappeared into your anus.

Pro-8250
08-18-2010, 05:01 PM
how long of a probe do you guys recommend?

backcountryislife
08-18-2010, 06:51 PM
Do you mean to find i'mdoon's head, or for snow???:D:D:D:

I use a 12' probe, I think most avy guys, like snowww1 advocate for a min. of 10' an 8' probe on a slope will leave you bending nearly all the way over to probe down 6', a 12' probe would leave your hands at about waist level.

I hope to never have to be in a probe line, so this will hopefully never be something that's a big difference! (hope!)