Clutch mis-alignment.... RAW IQ RMK CFi small blocks

How many of you guys have actually checked your clutch alignments and found them to be way off (especially on the DRAGONS & IQ's)

My 2007 DRAGON 700 was so far off I had to remove the engine and slot the mag side engine bracket an unbelievable 3/8" to get it "straight". The alignment bar was touching the front of the Secondary and a .180" gap @ the rear.


Then last week I checked my bud's 2007 D-7 his was off almost as much, alignment bar touching the front of the Secondary and .140" gap @ the rear of the secondary. Had to slot the mag side engine bracket 1/4" to 5/16". The only bonus was that I can now get the engine bracket out and re-installed with leaving the engine in place with everything still hooked up.

Had several 2001, 2002, 2003 EDGE's in our group in past years and they were off by only a little, one would assume that quality control and closer manufacturing tolerances would improve over time????

My ?? is are you guys checking your alignments and if so what are the results.

THANX in advance.

AKSNOWRIDER said:

what are you using to check algnment with?..the only tool you should use is the factory team LWT alignment bar......when set with other bars they show out vrs the LWT bar....RON posted a very good thread on here showing how it should be....

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I'm using the SLP tool .100" gap @ the front and .100"-.120" @ the rear (Net difference of .020" to allow for engine/torgue movement) as I have the SLP push limiter installed on the Mag side. I'm familiar with the fact there's different tools out there for the TSS-98 standard roller secondary, and the TSS-04 LIGHTWEIGHT (and narrower) TEAM ROLLER , thus the requirement of measuring back .100" as SLP sells only one tool to be used with both Roller secondaries TSS-98 and TSS-04.

When I started, the NET difference @ the secondary was .180" front to rear,(over approx 7" @ the secondary) the engine was THAT CROOKED!!

In addition to that I purchased the official GOLD PLATED POLARIS offset tool, approx $50.00-$60.00, it has approx .070" of "kick" built into it whereby the SLP tool is "straight"

Checked the sleds with both, end result is still the same.

Just surprised/disappointed that these 2007 sleds are off by THAT MUCH.

I called SLP, they said they run into this from time to time on ALL brands, just wondering what you guys have been seeing??

I took pics of the alignment, but I'm having trouble uploading them, I 've posted on other sites before with no problems????? Keeps saying upload of file failed??

AKSNOWRIDER said:

does the polaris tool have LWT written on the side of it? they have 2 polaris team tools..one for the older 98 series and the LWT tool for the 04 series..they are diff...mine was out about .40..I got mine right on the money by just loosening the motor mnts and wiggling the motor over till it lined up...on my 02 edge chassis I had to pull the motor and cut slots in the mnt to get it right on the money...as far as pics..I use photobucket to uplaod images to then just copy and past image to your reply on here....

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Yes my POLARIS tool has LWT engraved into it in LARGE letters.

There's not much wiggle room on these DRAGON/IQ's as both front and rear of the engine brackets are bent upwards as opposed to the EDGE'S that are tipped up in back ONLY and the fronts are straight ahead. I was always able to place some thin Chevrolet starter shims behind the rear engine brackets on the EDGE's to get the alignment PERFECT, provided of course that the center to center was a little SHORT to begin with.

Tried that exercise in futility on my D-7, shimming, swapping factory 1/8" thick motor mount washers with NO success. Had my engine in and out at least 10 times.

On a positive results note, after re-aligning my sled the belt NOW comes all the way to the top of the primary and wopes the mark clean, previously it was down from the top by approx 3/16"

Prior to that I was "glazing" the belts in approx 800 miles or so, never shredded or broke them.

Regarding that info Ron posted, can you post a link or steer me in the right direction??

Thanx

yammy1320 said:

Hmmmm.. you would think they would have that $60 gold plated tool at the factory, no?

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My thoughts EXACTLY!!

Here's the kicker, when I first measured my sled with the SLP alignment bar and found it to be way off, I brought to the attention of my dealer. The dealer said "Oh that sort of thing doesn't happen anymore today" you need to check it with the official POLARIS TOOL, so by the time the dealer got it to me it the season was over.

End result was that it was still "off" with the POLARIS tool brought it to the dealer's attention for the 2nd time and their response was "well, it's NOT really broken so it would NOT be covered under warranty"

AKSNOWRIDER said:

try looking at this thread..its one of the best on here for clutching...
http://snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=87640

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Thanks for the info, good reading, not too much on slotting the brackets (if req'd) though.

AKSNOWRIDER said:

Kraven...this is the thread...the alignment part starts on page 5..as for the mnt plates..you should be able to slot them where the motor bolts to the plate vrs. where the plate bolts to the mount...
http://snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=87640

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that is where I slotted them, case to plate 2 bolts, straight up/down

THANX for the link, again

AKSNOWRIDER said:

Kraven...this is the thread...the alignment part starts on page 5..as for the mnt plates..you should be able to slot them where the motor bolts to the plate vrs. where the plate bolts to the mount...
http://snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=87640

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This is the only reference I found on page 5 or thereafter, please correct me if I missed something.

Originally Posted by AKSNOWRIDER
I think Ron he means he has a 1/4 in. twist in the motor that shows on the secondary as the alignment bar up tight on the front of the secondary and a 1/4 in off in the back...
Thanks Mike,

If that's the case, I would check my torque stop (spec is .010 to .020) and then use a clamp to pull the engine against the torque stop before checking offset. My engine was cocked foreward about 1/8" leaving clutch center distance at about 11 5/8". Under load that becomes aboout 11.5". Before messing with the motor mounts make sure you have checked the center distance-that's the key.I don't know how much that distorts at the driven but it could easily be an 1/8" to a 1/4". What is everyone else seeing? I have checked 7 or 8 and they have all been about the same.



Now, my sled was fine on center to center, pretty much dead nutz, however I had approx 3/16" of "twist" as you refer to it. Bar touching the front of the secondary and 7" further rear-ward .180" gap between bar and secondary, yeah, that much twist. That's where I ended up slotting the engine bracket on the MAG side only in an effort to "straighten" out the motor. And it did, perfect NOW. I did that on my sled back in January and it's FINE now. Now the reason I'm bringing this up is that I thought I had a lemon built on Friday afternoon, however last week we checked my buddy's 2007 D-7 and his was off by almost as much, .140" of twist!! Had to slot the pto bracket 1/4" to 5/16" to fix that one.

So my question is do I have a pair of 2007 lemons or has this been happening to other sledders as well.
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AKSNOWRIDER said:

page 6 shows the factory tool and specs..as to why yours is out so far I am not sure..I would look very close under the motor and see if the bulkhead has either shifted somehow or if the factory just ended up with the mounts off that far..odd with it being out that far its not eating belts...Like Ron I try to set mine up so it pulls straight under heavy load...

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Read through page 6 re:tools and alignment and the clamp to simulate "under load" conditions.

But I didn't see any info on what to do when the alignment is way out of spec (as in my case)

Thanks again!!

Clutch alignment tools

RIGHT TOOL FOR THE RIGHT JOB

TOP= POLARIS LWT Part # PS-47477 identifiable by the LWT 1 1/2" tall letters inscribed (approx .070" of built -in "kick" WHICH IS GENERALLY MORE THAN YOU WANT!!!!!!) for use with TSS-04 LIGHTWEIGHT SECONDARY ONLY (contacts the outside of the secondary)


MIDDLE= SLP part # 20-191 This tool is parallel, "straight" no built-in "kick". For use with roller secondarys fits the TSS-98 PERFECTLY, Will work with TSS-04 requires .100" setback measurement to be factored in with a stack of feeler gauges or vernier caliper.(contacts the outside of the secondary) SLP now has a new tool specific to the TSS-04 to where you don't have to jerk around with measuring .100" back, new for 2010, PART # 20-188 $49.95, TEAM also has tools specific to the TSS-98 and TSS-04


NEXT TO BOTTOM= SLP part # 20-150 Standard for "Old style" button secondary, Basically EDGE's and older Indy's. 5/8" OFFSET between backside of secondary. This tool is parallel, as in "straight", no built-in "kick" (contacts the backside of the secondary which is somewhat inaccurate as the backside of the secondary "moves" with the width adjustment on the models with externally adjustable width secondarys)


Bottom Hi -Performance Engineering Center to Center Tool, E-Z to fabricate out of a piece of Scrap Aluminum or Steel, cut-out for jackshaft is 1" Exactly, after that 11.5" c/c. After that you do NOT need the additional 1/2" diameter holes shown in the pic, only the 1" horse shoe or 1" round hole cut-out is req'd and then put some black magic marker on the edge of the tool, tap lightly on the crank snout and you'll have your mark, compare that to your 11.5" scribe mark




I've HEARD REPORTS OF SOME TOOLS NOT BEING "STRAIGHT", PROBABLY NOT A BAD IDEA TO CHECK 'EM WITH A STRAIGHT EDGE!!!!!!!



TIPS FOR SLOTTING THE ENGINE BRACKET(S) IF NECESSARY

Here's a tip, if you're going to slot the mag side bracket, first check the air gap at the rear of the secondary to see where it's at.

After that, take the amount you're off by at the secondary and go slightly less than double that "air gap" amount on the slot.

Example, my DRAGON 700 was off by .180". Alignment tool touching the front of the secondary and it had a .180" air gap at the rear.(UGLY!!!!!!)

.180" times 2 = .360" go slightly less, say .320" +/-

Slot the MAG Side going FORWARD approximately .320" and you'll be REAL CLOSE!!!!!

Double check C/C, and if need be, slot BOTH sides an equal amount at that point and you're done.

First time I did this I removed the engine, took about 4 hours, and that's how I prefer to do it.

Option for the guys that don't want to completely remove the engine.
But for those of you that don't want to mess with all the wiring, fuel lines, anti-freeze draining, etc, I got it down to the Indy Pit Stop Style of unbolting the 4 engine mount bolts and leaving EVERYTHING ELSE in place. Jack up the engine, sticking some 2" x 4" blocks under it and removing ONLY the Mag side bracket, slotting and re-installing. It's a P.I.T.A. this way but for those of you that don't want to mess around with draining the anti-freeze and trying to figure out the wiring, etc, it's an option.

Dealer knowledge

thefullmonte said:

The worst is when your dealer pulls out the Polaris tool not knowing it has kick built into it and then adds more. If you are running the SLP push stop you can't have as much offset built in. The Polaris tool will be too much.
I can't tell you how bad this kind of thing wounds me. This is just the common place with so many American manufactures anymore. Sorry to be off topic, but Kraven is right. You would think tolerances would get better over time.
My sled was off too. Mostly because my motor mounts were loose. It took every ounce of effort and a very large 2X4 to get it just to parallel. No offset and no problems. I will check it again soon. If it is off at all, I will pull the motor and get out the dremel tool.

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Well said, Monte.

When I first discovered my BRAND NEW D7 was out of alignment I spoke to the dealer about it.

They insisted I use the official GOLD Plated POLARIS tool (rather than the SLP tool which indicated .180" of air gap) which they were anxious to sell to me.

After I received the POLARIS tool, I checked it again and it was still off by a little over .100" air gap @ the rear of the secondary.

Same dealer's response was "Well it's not grenading belts and the sled runs fine so it's not really a warranty issue"

Un-friggin-believable.