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2 strokes complete ecu standalone for turbo sleds
- Thread starter supraturbo
- Start date
J
This sounds like a good idea and I'm sure you will get interest if the price is reasonable. I will be watching this thread.
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it is about time the 2 strokes industry enter the 21 st century! as far as pricing goes, i will be able to reveal a price as much interest i get....basicaly, i will buy the 20 or more ecu(premier brand.....no cheap megasquirt or **** like that) so i can get a fair pricing. my tuner told me he would pay r&d if i can bring 20 or more buyers.......so i will buy those in case they don't sell, well i can use these ecu in my race atvs,boats,cars ect.....they are one size fit all !!!!! once you buy the standalone, you can fit it in any fuel injected machine on earth basically.
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so what about a conversion from a carbed motor to EFI with stock off the shelf parts?
Like say a doo motor with Poo or Cat TB's and injectors modded to fit the doo case. Could be huge in the doo camp for a turbo setup.
Like say a doo motor with Poo or Cat TB's and injectors modded to fit the doo case. Could be huge in the doo camp for a turbo setup.
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certainly a lot of fitting,engeniring involved here but can certainly be done....on the other side, market is big enough with efi ac and cfi poo to succesfully launch a standalone within this market and being succesfull. once you taste a well mapped ecu on a turbo application, the rest is past and you will never look back at those fuel management boxes(still ok until someone comes with a standalone application)......Paul at impulseturbo went this route at the end of last year and i'm sure he will never look back on fms(piggyback).i was driving a t-impulse nytro last year but the weight on this machine wasn't serving my driving habit(mostly boondocking) but i liked the four strokes reliability. i coming back this year on 2 strokes but i don't want to end up wrenching and messing up with those + and - on fuel boxe all winter long, so i will invest in a standalone and will try to share my experience with other fellows around north america!
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Very interested in this. I have had great luck with my BD setup but I also know I'm limited by timing and adjusting the stock fuel map along with what I consider questionable quality in the harness, components, and ECU itself (Polaris stuff not BD's). I don't have to adjust it much at all only when I make drastic changes to boost level ect.
What kind of inputs/outputs are we talking about on this ECU just the usual. O2? closed loop? ability to add on, like say a RPM/TPS modulated nitrous injection or water meth? What about MAF or MAP, Intake temp ect?
What kind of inputs/outputs are we talking about on this ECU just the usual. O2? closed loop? ability to add on, like say a RPM/TPS modulated nitrous injection or water meth? What about MAF or MAP, Intake temp ect?
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A lot of questions need to answered here before I think you will get some $$ to be handed out.
Good Idea but I have so many questions the list is about a mile long so I sent you a PM
Many large and very well know places with deep pocket books have tried this with no luck as there is so much R&D and behind the scenes info to making a system like this work it's unreal the amount $$ & time that needs to be spent on the Dyno and the snow.
Good Idea but I have so many questions the list is about a mile long so I sent you a PM
Many large and very well know places with deep pocket books have tried this with no luck as there is so much R&D and behind the scenes info to making a system like this work it's unreal the amount $$ & time that needs to be spent on the Dyno and the snow.
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infinite input output can be handled by the ecu(water/meth,nitrous,whatever you want to do can be driven by the standalone).....it is up to the programmer to have all datas working together and that is the challenge,all kinda a goodies and program can be build with time and money!. we will build a 100% closed loop. it won't be a single program for all but i'm planning to work and tune the major player in the aftermarket turbo kits(the one who will team up with me on the project.) some of the thing we have to decide are: electrionic boost controller(prefered) vs manual boost controller ect.... lots of people forget that engine aren't specificaly build to handle hi boost so even with a topnotch map in your standalone, all kinda shi!t can happen(blown boot,popped seals,leaks ect.) our goal is to sell the ecu(wich can be used for all your fuel injected machine)with a certain setup and be finaly able to drive safe with no hassle for multiple boost level.
i already booked a deal with the tuner: i need minimum 20 ecu bought upfront and they will pay r&d on the project......they have their regular dyno,engine dyno,even the plasma camera(to go in the combustion chamber and watch the explosion pattern in it!) they are full time racing team with more than 10 cars on road course in mont-tremblant,QC.
what i'm looking for is guys with turbo sleds to land me the sled for a month, that's it........or a major turbo kits builder(like bd) to join venture. to build a turbo kit it is pretty simple(just hardware) just takes time but to program injection it is another story....must be a physician
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the real problem is actualy the time on the snow.....i will drive a lot this winter to fine tune the program but we can design a 99% trouble free map on the "engine dyno" not a clutch hooked dyno. after engine dyno, just the cold start and a few other parameters need to be fine tune.......cold weather,mild weather ect...is all taking care of with physics calculations(like in automotive industry......compensation tables).once again Justin, the real challenge here is to find a "real deal" tuner with a lot of knowledge......and i found it.
as an example, last year on my t-nytro, took i'm 40 hours to completely acquiere the data and design a harness that would fit my nytro....called is standalone software programmer and they came back to me 1 week later with a software version that would take care of all necessary input for a turbo map being build..........unfortunately after multiple rides with my nytro, i decided to not invest more money since i didn't like the ride much(way too heavy for my riding style) so i decided to keep my money for this year since i knew i was going back to 2 strokes and here i am with this project going on!
if you know someone(manufacturer)of a popular turbo kit for poo-doo-ac, i would be realy happy if someone can hook me up with one of them.....just email me if so.
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i rather not throw sh!tty numbers yet since it all depends on expected sales.....i figured around 2500-2700$ cad. is my goal for a marine grade top of the line standalone ecu fully mapped for turbo application. even a perfectly mapped ecu can get a 15% hp increase on your regular non turbo sled!
That has got to be very involving what you doing. Consider the amount of time a OEM company will spend testing maps in real conditions. From sea level to 12000 feet and from 70 degrees to –40.
I believe that closed loop O2 system is not reliable enough for a 2-stroke or even a four-stroke yet, this is why you do not see any manufactures using them even though it can make more power. There already has been a wack of R&D on this.
Realistically a learning system that utilizes wide band data and a map sensor to build your maps is the way to go, than you are not relying 100% of the time on a O2 sensor that is going to get a drop of water on it and bust up.
This is just my opinion but good luck with it.
I believe that closed loop O2 system is not reliable enough for a 2-stroke or even a four-stroke yet, this is why you do not see any manufactures using them even though it can make more power. There already has been a wack of R&D on this.
Realistically a learning system that utilizes wide band data and a map sensor to build your maps is the way to go, than you are not relying 100% of the time on a O2 sensor that is going to get a drop of water on it and bust up.
This is just my opinion but good luck with it.
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i think it could work wonders in a 2 stoke properly set up and a case to keep it dry
what brand of standalone you going to use? will be a big factor
the comparision between a piggyback and a standalone is uncomparible except for the price, im assuming a price of around $1500 for a plug and play system for a sled.
my turbo is300 is getting a vipec v88 standalone and shes around 3gs installed.
i like that fact that that we wont have to monitor as much, but what happens if the standalone starts to screws up loses a map, sensor goes down and unable to get the sled back running, happens alot to people in a vehicle with any type of standalone from motec, hks, haltech, tek3 and also there is now snow/moisture , are we going to have to keep a laptop on hand to tune it, keep extra sensors??? are you building waterproof housing for the standalone so it doesnt fry from moisture/snow damage?
also the size of alot of standalones are huge where are you going to mount it?
what brand of standalone you going to use? will be a big factor
the comparision between a piggyback and a standalone is uncomparible except for the price, im assuming a price of around $1500 for a plug and play system for a sled.
my turbo is300 is getting a vipec v88 standalone and shes around 3gs installed.
i like that fact that that we wont have to monitor as much, but what happens if the standalone starts to screws up loses a map, sensor goes down and unable to get the sled back running, happens alot to people in a vehicle with any type of standalone from motec, hks, haltech, tek3 and also there is now snow/moisture , are we going to have to keep a laptop on hand to tune it, keep extra sensors??? are you building waterproof housing for the standalone so it doesnt fry from moisture/snow damage?
also the size of alot of standalones are huge where are you going to mount it?
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100% close loop might not be the right term for all of us......close loop will be on an average of 50- 60% load on the engine(about just before boost starts),then compensation charts will take over, so the ecu(like turboed cars) won't take care of the o2 sensor. basicaly, closed loop at idle up to about 4000 rpm(just an average) then open loop for the rest......all kind of security will be programmed to make sure you do not melt pistons wide open ect...would be foolish to base injection on an o2 alone!
as far as oem company testing 70 to -40 and altitude ect.....well they spend most of the terrain (field) testing to fine tune suspension,chassis,track....but engine. most of the r&d on the engine is done in house on engine dynos,90% of the work actualy......fine tuning on the field after(and this is more for cold start purposes). remember oem companies as a lot of regulation to meet,and a lot of expections toward the hp race engage between them,on top of it, the cost of the final product is a BIG concern for them.......so it is for us but simply not as important as for them. a standalone like vi-pec is top of the line ecu with so much more possibility, don't even compare oem from cat or poo to the vi-pec product.
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the brand we are going to us is a vi-pec marine case(100% sealed / waterproof(lot of them already installed on the world cup kawasaki jetski tour wrc ect..) and vibration resistant.
i have a autronic(vi-pec cusin!)in my 94 supra for 5 years now and i'm running 23 lbs boost and 900 hp with not even an hickup since the last five years.
regarding reliability....well i think it is more reliable than your oem ecu!!! like i said earlier, a lot of features can be programmed into the ecu....a safe mode would be one of them!!! if an o2 sensor go wrong than open loop on the circuit and a base map will take over and we can stop the rpm going over 300rpm let say ect....the vi-pec marine ecu ids pretty thin actualy....it not a problem to fit it in a 2 stroke cab at all.
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nice
answered my questions thx
ViPec makes one hell of a ECU :beer;
i want ur 900whp supra must be nuts, im going for 650whp+ in my 02 is300 should be fast enough
i didnt know vipec made marine stuff, shows how much i hate marine stuff now that i dont have my cabin anymore...
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not to distract from a good thread... but Twister, works on boats... aside from his 8-5 job. He is one of the only ones that does overhauls for quit a distance. He yanks the oil pump off almost every Johnson/Evinrude motor that comes in his shop. I think the two things that give him the most business are the oil pumps and stupidity....
back to regularly scheduled programing.... nice sled and good luck on the ecu.
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lets focus on main stream here!!! i will post with some good news shortly !!!
keep questions coming, if you have very technical questions, do not hesitate since next week, i will take time to go further in explanations with the man himself: the tuner behind all this project.
thanks for the all the awsome guys from out west(alberta,b.c. ect.) for all offers on sending your sled to quebec for r&d purposes.it is very appreciated.
keep questions coming, if you have very technical questions, do not hesitate since next week, i will take time to go further in explanations with the man himself: the tuner behind all this project.
thanks for the all the awsome guys from out west(alberta,b.c. ect.) for all offers on sending your sled to quebec for r&d purposes.it is very appreciated.
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