Bluetooth Headsets and Avy Beacons

[KhaosRipcord]

Bluetooth headsets paired with backcountry radios. Does anyone use them (off trail) or is it legitimately a no go for folks carrying avy beacons? I'm intrigued by the prospect of hands-free comms but looking for folks real world experience from a safety perspective. I work in SATCOM so have an understanding of all things RF so I feel like the risk would be minimal to nonexistant. No more risky then having our smart phones with us or 7s displays. What I don't have is a ton of experience with beacons. Oxbow's website says to disable bluetooth in the backcountry (liability purposes no doubt) but research I've done on beacons just says to keep the devices separated by at least 20cm. Learn me.

 

[96-ramair]

My riding party has used Sena Bluetooth communications for several years now. We're also avy trained and I was very concerned about transceiver interference.

I did repeated tests of effective beacon search range with both the beacon and helmet (with Sena) in play. What I found is that when the avy beacon was within about 20cm of the helmet, detection range started to drop. The worst case was pretty obvious, when the avy beacon was INSIDE the helmet, where detection range dropped about 10-12 meters. Detection range was unaffected as long as the beacon was more than that 20cm or so. That distance included when my beacon was in my avy vest front pocket while my helmet is above that.

My general rule of thumb is to keep my Sena on in my helmet, my beacon and my InReach in my front vest pocket, my UHF/GMRS radio on my back in my vest, and my phone in airplane mode in my thigh pocket.

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[KhaosRipcord]

My riding party has used Sena Bluetooth communications for several years now. We're also avy trained and I was very concerned about transceiver interference.

I did repeated tests of effective beacon search range with both the beacon and helmet (with Sena) in play. What I found is that when the avy beacon was within about 20cm of the helmet, detection range started to drop. The worst case was pretty obvious, when the avy beacon was INSIDE the helmet, where detection range dropped about 10-12 meters. Detection range was unaffected as long as the beacon was more than that 20cm or so. That distance included when my beacon was in my avy vest front pocket while my helmet is above that.

My general rule of thumb is to keep my Sena on in my helmet, my beacon and my InReach in my front vest pocket, my UHF/GMRS radio on my back in my vest, and my phone in airplane mode in my thigh pocket.

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Thank you for this. Exactly what I was looking for. Real world experience. Cheers!

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[IDspud]

Pics/info on these headsets?

 

[96-ramair]

Pics/info on these headsets?

If you meant mine, we use the Sena 30K. Sena has several newer models, including comms systems with built in 4K cameras. I'd recommend starting here to find what might fit your needs: https://www.sena.com/us-en/motorcycles-powersports

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[96-ramair]

Pics/info on these headsets?

Here's a link to the 30K mounted on a helmet (https://photos.app.goo.gl/vKKD3b7pY9Pes8BP6 ). I've since moved on to the same kit in my Klim F5 (https://photos.app.goo.gl/PY2BydbyyfJjDpPc7 ). The first pic was a -10F day (note the icecicle on the chin), and the Sena worked great all day. The key to them is to place the mic where it's near the mouth, but not so close you breathe directly on it, or it will collect moisture from your breathing that ultimately freezes over the mic.

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[KhaosRipcord]

If you meant mine, we use the Sena 30K. Sena has several newer models, including comms systems with built in 4K cameras. I'd recommend starting here to find what might fit your needs: https://www.sena.com/us-en/motorcycles-powersports

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Ever run into issues with feedback from engine noise or delays?

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[96-ramair]

Ever run into issues with feedback from engine noise or delays?

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No, none. They're made for motorsport. Think of these as more like a group chat or 3-way call on phones, but people can join and drop from the chat if they want. These have both a "mesh" radio and a direct high power BT radio. The distance is pretty limited, maybe 100-200 yds direct between riders. But the mesh "party line" mode allows each rider to be a repeater, sending the signal to the next closest rider. And it's self-healing, meaning when one rider dips off from the rest to go exploring, the rest don't suffer broken comms.

Here's a video that explains the difference we'll:

They also pair to your phone for music, taking phone calls, talking to Siri, and all kinds of stuff that I don't really use sledding (ok, except music), but I enjoy having in the summer on the road bike.

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[KhaosRipcord]

No, none. They're made for motorsport. Think of these as more like a group chat or 3-way call on phones, but people can join and drop from the chat if they want. These have both a "mesh" radio and a direct high power BT radio. The distance is pretty limited, maybe 100-200 yds direct between riders. But the mesh "party line" mode allows each rider to be a repeater, sending the signal to the next closest rider. And it's self-healing, meaning when one rider dips off from the rest to go exploring, the rest don't suffer broken comms.

Here's a video that explains the difference we'll:

They also pair to your phone for music, taking phone calls, talking to Siri, and all kinds of stuff that I don't really use sledding (ok, except music), but I enjoy having in the summer on the road bike.

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Yup tracking all that. My intent it to pair one with a gmrs radio to get hands free but with radio range. Music is a nice plus!

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[96-ramair]

Yup tracking all that. My intent it to pair one with a gmrs radio to get hands free but with radio range. Music is a nice plus!

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If you're thinking of using the Sena with an Oxbow radio, it doesn't work quite right. My riding buddy tried that combo last year. I don't recall the exact issue, but it had something to do with the BT profile on the Oxbow vs the one that the Sena wants to use. I can't speak to other FRS/GMRS radios, though.

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[Jason4]

All of the guidance that I've seen for transceivers is to maintain 20cm of separation between the transceiver and any RF source when the transceiver is transmitting and 50cm of separation when the transceiver is in search mode (I'm an avalanche instructor and my source is a white paper from Manuel Genswein just in case you want to double check my info). There are two ways that RF interferes with the transceiver; one way is to raise the "noise floor" which reduces the effective range of the searching transceiver, the other way is an active signal that is close enough in signal characteristics to a transmitting transceiver can cause a searching transceiver to have a misleading direction or distance. This is usually pretty easy to work through if you have practiced with your transceiver. In general, if you are searching with your transceiver you should turn off all of your electronics that you possibly can and separate yourself from the rest.