Great Burn on Montana/Idaho border--STILL TIME TO PARTICIPATE IN THE PROCESS!!!

The EIS process requires the agency to identify and mitigate socio-economic issues that can be weighted very heavily as a result of the coordination process. If the County Comissioners, local mayors, and other elected officials really put the effort in during the scoping and alternatives development than an appeal based on those socio-economic factors has far more validity and is easier to leverage. The local chambers of commerce, tourism board, etc. should be screaming from the roof tops and having input early in the process not only to gain standing but to also establish other criteria for the agency to evaluation like economics, culture, historical usage, tribal concerns, etc.

In my opinion it's worth using every bullet you can find and the coordination process has had success for those willing to learn it and do the work to apply it. Hope this works out for the best. EW

EricW said:

The EIS process requires the agency to identify and mitigate socio-economic issues that can be weighted very heavily as a result of the coordination process. If the County Comissioners, local mayors, and other elected officials really put the effort in during the scoping and alternatives development than an appeal based on those socio-economic factors has far more validity and is easier to leverage. The local chambers of commerce, tourism board, etc. should be screaming from the roof tops and having input early in the process not only to gain standing but to also establish other criteria for the agency to evaluation like economics, culture, historical usage, tribal concerns, etc.

In my opinion it's worth using every bullet you can find and the coordination process has had success for those willing to learn it and do the work to apply it. Hope this works out for the best. EW

Click to expand...

While I agree with what you are saying about the process I cannot find even one state where all the process stopped the net closures. Even if you halted a few closures there were enough closures that we had a net loss of access. Got to change who we send to congress (in Montana Tester and Baucus, democrats, must go) and who the president is (get rid of Obama).
If the dept of ag / forest service in DC had a different mindset/culture and if the judges who heard our cases were different we would not be in this position, which is continuosly defensive.

Where do you think the Wildnerness/greenie closure agenda starts? It is not at the local level. Yes we have our local Wilderness cheerleaders but the closure agenda starts deep in DC where the greenies know how to seed their crap and that is why we are seeing all of these closures happening around the country and at records levels. I have never seen so many simulatenous anti -access efforts around the country. Baucus and Tester in Montana have worked hard to promote greenie Wilderness. Tester especially pretends to be the outdoorsman friend but that is all fake. He is not one of us. Rehberg needs to defeat Tester.

oldmaninmt said:

1,319,623 acres to remain open to snowmobiling? Unfortunately although this is technically correct, it happens to be the wrong acres for a meaningful experience. Heavily timbered, low elevation, no access, to steep and not open enough for a sledder to use, creek bottom acreage. These are the types of acreages which make up the land that is characterized as remaining open.It is not quality snowmobileing real estate. It is a shame (and this proposal was presented to the FS on a number of occasions) that with the designation of only 3% of the Great Burn as a winter motorized recreation corridor, all the snowmobilers needs could have been met. Needless to saw the suggestions and proposals were dismissed.

Click to expand...

Defeat Tester / Baucus. Replace Tester with Rehberg. Next president needs to be Republican. Need to change Dept og Ag / Forest Service in DC. Our Congress / President influence all of this along with what type of judges will be in place to hear these cases.
For those that have not read, or for those that it's been awhile "Encounters With the Archdruid" - by John McPhee. This is over 40 years old. Recommend read for background on Wilderness.

We will lose this battle (and for years now we have ben losing) if we do not get handle on where the forest service management policy and goals are set. All of these closures - ask your self where do they start? It is DC. It is no coincidence that all of these closures are happening all over the country. That is not individual state forest service management that just happens to be happening in each of these states all at the same time. It really is possible to make chnages - but only if we elect Senators and Reps that are not supporting aditional Wildnerness / motorized closures. In that case you can forget about Tester / Baucus / Obama. Sorry if it offends anyones choice at the voting booth, but if you voted for any of these guys you supported additional Wilderness and further trail closures.

The manufactureres need to be helping with this. This is expensive work and requires coordination with groups in other states and will also require western states members of congress be united in their pressure in DC. This is a huge issue for our way of living in the west. Forest service access / multiple use access / hunting issues. All of the groups need to be working together. And watch out for the fake pro-outdoorsman/hunting groups that are actually democrat/greenie groups in disguise(you can tell which ones those are because they run commercials supporting Tester and they slam Rehberg).

Say what you want about Rehberg otherwise, but he is the only guy that is supporting our interests on Wilderness (we have enough already!) and multiple use. The worst things that has happened for us in the multiple access world in Montana? -Tester / Baucus / Obama, and before that Clinton and Baucus for many years.

Sorry to sound so harsh, but these are critical elections coming up. Think about how much we have lost in the last 10 years. How much more will we lose in the next 10 years?

remeber folks the title of this thread is wrong. This is actually in idaho. Replacing the montana reps won't help this riding area. Idaho is actually a very republican state. We need to figure out how to replace forest service employees.


the Idaho state snowmobile association is working on an appeal.

TIM said:

remeber folks the title of this thread is wrong. This is actually in idaho. Replacing the montana reps won't help this riding area. Idaho is actually a very republican state. We need to figure out how to replace forest service employees.


the Idaho state snowmobile association is working on an appeal.

Click to expand...

Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Colorado,New Mexico, California, Washington, Oregon, etc..we are all in the same boat and we need republican senate/reps from ALL states to work together to get the western perspective in minds in DC (their other peers in congress from other states). So having this group in a neighboring state does help in that way.

Firing forest service employees at the local level is waste of time - they will be replaced with similar. Actually some of our forest service guys in some states are pretty good guys (and some real azzwholez) but they know who signs the checks. This is an issue at the level of Dept of Ag/Forest Service in DC. We need all western state senators/reps to be united and work the DC crowd together and change the people who are in key positions in the Dept og Ag/Forest service and the judges who hear our cases.

TIM said:

remeber folks the title of this thread is wrong. This is actually in idaho. Replacing the montana reps won't help this riding area. Idaho is actually a very republican state. We need to figure out how to replace forest service employees.


the Idaho state snowmobile association is working on an appeal.

Click to expand...

I know how to replace them......clean house! Its a good thing were not back in the cowboy days.

Great burn closure...lawsuit filed

Okay ,
the lawsuit hs been filed and is headed to the courts

We need to collect at least $10,000 dollars for our help in the effort

the Missoula Snowgoers Snowmobile Association (MSSA) has set up an account for this.

MSSA
Po Box 2441
Missoula, 59801

Please make checks payable to MSSA

We will take anything you can give every penny counts

This is a huge area that is affected from Lolo Pass to StRegis Montana
and all idaho play areas in between.
If you have ridden this you know why we dont want to loose it.
If you never have ridden it lets fight to keep the greenies from taking one more riding area away.
This closure affects many others as well, all of those that rely on our gas , food , lodging , spare parts etc will loose as well.

If you read the closure you will see not just sleds are out but mountain bikes as well ,, Yet they reopened some Motor Cycle trails. The way this closure was done makes it one we can win, and get reversed.
But we need your help.

below is some information on the lawsuit


http://www.snowest.com/snowmobile-n...n=News+Suit+To+Stop+Illegal+Wilderness+090712


I know money is tight these days but lets show how well we can come together and fight for our cause ..
PM me if you have any questions
Thank You
:usa2:

PayPal?

Do you guys take PayPal? I would like to send some money to help fight this and that would be the easiest way for me.

we are working on a paypal site.
this was brought to our attention on another forum great idea
I will post as soon as it is up and working
thank you for the support

I'm in! Thanks very much this area is my backyard I'd hate to loose it!

Thank you MSSA! That is the best riding for hundreds of miles around. Paypal site would make it really easy for us to donate.:rockon:

$

I see the po box is in Missoula is there somewhere we can drop off money if we live in town? Thanks

Does anyone know if the dealers are getting in on supporting this? I would thank if they want to sell sleds they would help keep places to ride..maybe ask this if anyone stops at there local sled shops ..

The Blue Ribbon Coalition has a paypal site. If we donated to them would the funds go directly towards fighting the Great Burn Closure?

2nd that.

no the you need to donate to MSSA
any other way and it can be used in their general fund
this is an account for ONLY the greatburn

I will see if we have a local person to drop money off to

and where we are on our paypal account

the other reason we want to collect this money thru MSSA
is we first want to be able to thank everyone involved , it also lets us show the
areas that money is coming from
to be able to show money from far away states and canada will show that
it truly does affect others lives and the economy in many different ways, not just those that live close by.

If you live in Missoula or close and want to drop a check of PM me and i will personally meet up with you or give you my office address

Thank You and please pass this on to others you think will help with the fight
:usa2:

Keep it open!

I'll send a check.

lawsuit is file guys ... this is the fight ..
donate and we can win
look at the greatburn lawsuit post
MSSA has a special account just for the funds to fight this
paypal coming soon
thanks