Supercharged Pro

turboless terry · Mar 31, 2014

Thanks to Jeremy at Speedwerks a buddy and I had the opportunity to ride a supercharged pro in Towgatee for the day. I will say, without a doubt, that it exceeded our expectations. Without a doubt it was the funnest sled I have rode to date. It was a pump gas kit running around 7.5-8 lbs of boost. They also had a cat sc and a guy had a turboed cat. They were all running the same boost and all had 3 inch tracks. About as fair of a comparison as you are going to get. The pro had a vipec. With Jeremy running the pro, He never lost a race. It wasn't a huge hill but was an uphill race and a good indication on how they run. Whether a turbo will win out on a long steep pull I don't know. All I know is the supercharger is in the mix and I won't buy a turbo again. They pull your arms off from the minute it engages. The weird part is they are kind of deceiving on how good they run. If you like to play in the trees, or jump, or climb chutes this is the sled. Instant hit or pop off stuff, no lag what so ever. It is like a big bore on steroids. The turboes don't really have lag anymore but are still spooling a little before you get full power. The supercharger has incredible bottom end and still seemed good up top. Hitting a little uphill lip, that didn't amount to much, and the super charger would catch 4-5 feet of air and the turbo just wheelied over. This is a boondockers dream. Even though the kit is still a proto type it was super clean. It will add about 7-10 pounds. The cool thing is the weight is centered up and you don't notice the weight. When I was running a turboed pro, and you jumped on a stock one, you could notice the extra weight when not on the gas. Mcclure won the dash for cash on a race gas version, at Jackson, I believe running 14 pounds so this should rule out gus saying they don't run at higher boost levels. Thanks again Jeremy and Bill. Terry.

Spaarky · Apr 1, 2014

When McClure pulled up to the line at the dash for cash.. his sled sounded CRAZY!!!! He tore out of the hole, but the turbo pro(assuming BD) was slowly catching him as they got to the top. At least that's how it appeared.

Interesting they are running that much boost. I thought it was a 5-6lb max.

Any word as to when they will actually release this as a kit?

Also, is Speedwerx doing the tuning on the Vipec?

I know zero about superchargers, it would be interested to see flow rates in comparison to some of the typically used turbos.

No offense, I am a little skeptical. Big picture why aren't other companies working on superchargers too?

mike_s · Apr 1, 2014

Curious what they are doing to the pipe set to make this work. Turbos work so well on a 2-stroke because they increase exhaust pressure proportionally to intake pressure, therefore the pipe more or less stays efficient. When you start increasing intake pressure but not pipe pressure, youre going to loose some efficiency because the bleed-down in the pipe will be too fast for the intake pressure and the increased transfer pressure will just blow right through.

Are they using custom pipes?

turboless terry · Apr 1, 2014

I thought there was going to be something high faluten with the pipe but he told me it was the stock pipe. It had a different muffler on it. I don't know why they didn't work before and what they had to do to figure it out but they work now. I thought it was going to have a special exhaust. It also had the stock clutching other than 72 gram polaris weights so he said there is probably some left on the table for the clutching. It was also pulling about 8500 rpm. I assume we were between 8-9000 feet. Speedwerks put and tuned the vipec but they were talking about offering the kit with a bully dog since the vipec is expensive. They Only had about 800 miles on the pro but they had a couple more kits made up that were going on a 15 and will be testing them in mccall. The kit we rode was a 13 163 with 3 inch track. They did say that dan adams had rode it. Bill did say it was funny because he was kinda put out, at first, because he was busy with a ladies clinic and didn't know him or really have time. After he conned him into it he came back smiling and wanted all his guys to ride it. Boondockers dream. Get a hold of Jeremy and get your name on the list right below mine:face-icon-small-hap.

swrev · Apr 1, 2014

Terry,

Was this thing a true pump gas at those boost levels? Still mixing below 6-7000' like most of the turbo Pro's I've seen?

Sounds like this setup could be a blast. Must be the reason the 872 is for sale already.

turboless terry · Apr 1, 2014

Never smelled any race fuel. I would assume it will be like the turboes. It makes the 872 look silly for bottom end.

mike_s · Apr 1, 2014

turboless terry said:
I thought there was going to be something high faluten with the pipe but he told me it was the stock pipe. It had a different muffler on it. I don't know why they didn't work before and what they had to do to figure it out but they work now. I thought it was going to have a special exhaust. It also had the stock clutching other than 72 gram polaris weights so he said there is probably some left on the table for the clutching. It was also pulling about 8500 rpm. I assume we were between 8-9000 feet. Speedwerks put and tuned the vipec but they were talking about offering the kit with a bully dog since the vipec is expensive. They Only had about 800 miles on the pro but they had a couple more kits made up that were going on a 15 and will be testing them in mccall. The kit we rode was a 13 163 with 3 inch track. They did say that dan adams had rode it. Bill did say it was funny because he was kinda put out, at first, because he was busy with a ladies clinic and didn't know him or really have time. After he conned him into it he came back smiling and wanted all his guys to ride it. Boondockers dream. Get a hold of Jeremy and get your name on the list right below mine:face-icon-small-hap.

Well if it works, it works. Cant argue with performance. Be curious to see if the economy is comparable to that of a turbo with similer output. Could well be the next big thing if they can make them work well.

Iceman56 · Apr 1, 2014

Sounds interesting, I thought they never actually released the SC for the Cats that they have been trying to get working for over 2 years now?

What are they running for intercooling?

CHAZWILDMAN · Apr 1, 2014

What will the price be? Has any testing been done at 10,000 ft?

kraftymike · Apr 1, 2014

mike_s said:
Well if it works, it works. Cant argue with performance. Be curious to see if the economy is comparable to that of a turbo with similer output. Could well be the next big thing if they can make them work well.

Same question here. I love the idea and new mods to push the market. How does it do on fuel. Can a guy pack enough? Super charging works so well because you are "always in boost" (less lag) but at the same time you are "always in boost" and that takes way more fuel.

Spaarky · Apr 1, 2014

CHAZWILDMAN said:
What will the price be? Has any testing been done at 10,000 ft?

I looked at the cat set up on their website today. That was 6500 if I remember right. I would imagine, the Pro set up would be about the same.

They are a MN company, but they do a lot of testing at high elevations.

Monty · Apr 1, 2014

Vids?

turboless terry · Apr 1, 2014

I don't have a video but if you go on the cat section Brendan Ross has a bunch of video of his 800 pro climb sc. It should be on the first page. As far as fuel mileage I have no Idea. If you want the ponies you have to feed em. I assume you won't have to get into like a stocker to get the same places so it won't be bad but if you ride it to the bars you will burn some fuel. I never looked at the fuel guage. That was the last thing on my mind. We had to be at 8-9000 feet. Struthers is going to test one on a brand new 15, here directly, in McCall. We were told the kits are going to be $6500. I heard that the issues with the cat were with the power commander but got worked out. They are talking bully dog but you can get the vipec but it is pricey. You would probably be at $9000 and that weeds most people out. It would have been fun to ride one with and without the vipec to see the difference. All I know is the sled never had a hiccup all day. Bill told me it would take him 6-8 hours to install. He also said the belt can be bought at napa which is a plus. He told me 15 min in the shop and 30 in the field to change a belt. I question that for me. I asked how long a belt lasts and he had changed one in 800 miles. It wasn't blown. He said it just had a tiny fray so he just changed it. No issues with the belt drive. There is nothing on the muffler side of the bulkhead other than the muffler. It has an intercooler with fan tucked back by the throttle bodies. They had to move the steering linkage up a hair to clear the pro charger unit. There was one radiator hose that would be moved as soon as the kit is dialed. They were going to have gates build it. that will allow you to get at the belt tensioner easier. He said you should change the oil once a year. There were two bolts. One has a dip stick on it and one to change it. Looked simple. It was a really clean kit. They said it was all stock clutching other than 72 gram polaris weights. My 11 bd pro kit came with 68's. That is pretty much all I know. Anything else and you will have to call Speedwerks.

allblowdup · Apr 2, 2014

Every now and then the supercharged two stroke pops up again but we never ever see a production peice or a proper dyno sheet on it. I would be really interested in this if it actually worked. Absolutely without a doubt there has to be some sort of exhaust backpressure control system or it will NOT work. It will run and make probably about 10 more hp without it but have way more bottom end. You can just restrict the exhaust for the power but you kill the bottom a bunch. Fuel economy will suck unless it is a variable restriction. If you can't hold the boost in it blows right out the ex port. I would get that Speedwerx would not want anyone to know how they rectified this but should at least acknowledge the issue. Way back (cause i'm old) we supercharged a polaris 500 twin with a positive diplacement supercharger and got close to 140 hp from it with a restricked exhaust. bottom end sucked and it was so inconsistent that you couldn't really run it. If you opened up the restriction a small amount the drivablity got better fast but the power dropped fast also plus BSFC went through the roof. I drove the sled for a day on a lake at 10 psi boost making only 100 hp (stock was 70). ran out of fuel(10.4 gal) in 30 miles.

Sure would be awsome if they figured it out. I would buy one if I could varify it.

mike_s · Apr 2, 2014

allblowdup said:
Every now and then the supercharged two stroke pops up again but we never ever see a production peice or a proper dyno sheet on it. I would be really interested in this if it actually worked. Absolutely without a doubt there has to be some sort of exhaust backpressure control system or it will NOT work. It will run and make probably about 10 more hp without it but have way more bottom end. You can just restrict the exhaust for the power but you kill the bottom a bunch. Fuel economy will suck unless it is a variable restriction. If you can't hold the boost in it blows right out the ex port. I would get that Speedwerx would not want anyone to know how they rectified this but should at least acknowledge the issue. Way back (cause i'm old) we supercharged a polaris 500 twin with a positive diplacement supercharger and got close to 140 hp from it with a restricked exhaust. bottom end sucked and it was so inconsistent that you couldn't really run it. If you opened up the restriction a small amount the drivablity got better fast but the power dropped fast also plus BSFC went through the roof. I drove the sled for a day on a lake at 10 psi boost making only 100 hp (stock was 70). ran out of fuel(10.4 gal) in 30 miles.

Sure would be awsome if they figured it out. I would buy one if I could varify it.

I have all the same reserves and thoughts as well, but didnt want to push the issue...sometimes people get pissy when you question a new product they like. Even when youve been there before.

LoudHandle · Apr 2, 2014

There is a thread on here about monitoring and controlling pipe pressure for consistent running with altitude change. In that thread was a link to a system Speedworks was developing. From memory the Speedworks link did not work anymore. But if they are indeed just changing the can, then my guess is that is the key to the supercharged 2S's functionality. The larger question is how they achieved the pipe pressure control and just how consistent / reliable is it? In that thread I mentioned there were many approaches discussed but they all had their unique shortcomings. It will be interesting to see what they are doing and how it all pans out for them.

winter4ever · Apr 2, 2014

Just wondering, where does the supercharger grab its rotational energy from on a two stroke snowmobile? I mean like on a car the kit usually taps in with an extra pulley on the serpentine belt...

die hard poo · Apr 2, 2014

Most likely it has a belt driven off the Mag side of the motor...

allblowdup · Apr 3, 2014

Back in the day (again) I experimented with an exhaust pressure control valve that worked mechanically. Basically it was a double diaphram vacum advance form a old Ford distributor. One side getting boost pressure the other getting pipe pressure. I added an adjustable spring to bias the valve for 4 psi more pipe pressure than boost pressure. I installed it on a manifold and ran compressed air through it and it worked perfect. THEN I got married had kids and bought a few businesses so never actually tried it. I would imagine now with computer control it should be easy to map a control valve that would do the same thing only better

diamonddave · Apr 3, 2014

Maybe it's the Vipec...

Supercharged Pro

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