• Don't miss out on all the fun! Register on our forums to post and have added features! Membership levels include a FREE membership tier.

Thoughts on 2870?

RobertTrivanovic

Well-known member
Lifetime Membership
Nov 8, 2012
1,199
243
63
Abbotsford BC
I have the opportunity to buy a garrett 2870 for cheap and since money is a huge factor to me im seriously considering it over my original plan to buy a 2860 to replace the junk chinese 2860 replica that comes with the push G kit. What are peoples thoughts on this turbo? Worth it or not? I want to upgrade no matter what since this turbo makes way to much heat, im not actually looking to turn up the boost just keep it as a pump gas set up running 8psi, just want something that works better as I had issues with that other turbo, if i held out for a 2860 I would b cutting it really close money wise coming into the winter which is why im considering this.
 

Snowedunder

Active member
Premium Member
Mar 27, 2008
604
38
28
BC
I just bought a gt 2871 that i am putting on a 13 proclimb, it may spool a bit slower than a 2860, but will make more power, i plan to run 100ll at 10 to12 pounds. Mine is a tail with a 38mm external wast gate. She is going to rippppp, I would say go for it, you guys like climbing over there.
 

av8er

Well-known member
Lifetime Membership
Sep 16, 2006
4,538
1,241
113
Kalispell, MT.
i run a 2871 on my M8

10psi on 100LL, it runs real strong, it is better than the 2876 that was on it for all around use.
 

Wheel House Motorsports

Well-known member
Lifetime Membership
Nov 27, 2007
29,933
5,968
113
34
SW MT
the 2871 is a hard turbo to beat on an 800. good balance of big airflow and power but good spooling as well. I would get it and run it. gonna make a LOT more power then whats on their now!
 
I

inspector01

Well-known member
Mar 21, 2013
379
297
63
MN
I haven't used them on 2-strokes or sleds, but on small 4-cylinder 4-strokes, they are awesome. Very responsive and still make 400+ hp easy.
 

Hardass

Well-known member
Lifetime Membership
Nov 26, 2007
4,013
514
113
Troy Montana
You will use a lot more fuelthan stock or nodded. Using a 3071 external gate billit compressor wheel. And a .63 turbine housing it rips and great response. Make sure you do the external gate or a divorced down pipe. It does make a difference.
 
I

inspector01

Well-known member
Mar 21, 2013
379
297
63
MN
I think that answers that thanks guys! Will I be needing to throw a bunch more fuel at it running this turbo?

Power is directly related to how much fuel you can efficiently burn, so if you want to make more power reliably, you need to add fuel approximately proportionate to the increase in power.
 

RobertTrivanovic

Well-known member
Lifetime Membership
Nov 8, 2012
1,199
243
63
Abbotsford BC
More what i was thinking with the fuel thing was my sleds running 8psi on stock injectors no extra injectors or anything. If i swap the turbo would I likely max out my injectors?
 
G
Apr 23, 2008
1,576
981
113
No. You will trim in some fuel but not enough to be an issue.
Hardass. Sounds like you got to run.that turbo. Sounds like you are pleased..I was amazed when I fired the sled off with the 99 on it as well. Scary quick response for such a large turbo.

They build some sweet stuff.
 

Hardass

Well-known member
Lifetime Membership
Nov 26, 2007
4,013
514
113
Troy Montana
Yes Gus it runs real good as far as fueling I'm running the stock pump with the recirc welded shut also I'm using the bdx fuel pump modguel I have a 4 injector set up I wish I knew where the limit is on my pump set up ie 10 # 12#14# any one have a clue?this would he helpful for me and this thread starter.Oh and I do not use a rising rate either
 
Last edited:

RobertTrivanovic

Well-known member
Lifetime Membership
Nov 8, 2012
1,199
243
63
Abbotsford BC
Whats the pros and cons of using a rising rate? I have one but its not installed so ive never actually used it, I have a PCV so I can take fuel away on the bottom, is it all personal preference on how you want to tune it or would there be any other pros or cons to using one?
 

Tonysnoo

Well-known member
Lifetime Membership
Apr 6, 2004
978
277
63
No. Nevada
Whats the pros and cons of using a rising rate? I have one but its not installed so ive never actually used it, I have a PCV so I can take fuel away on the bottom, is it all personal preference on how you want to tune it or would there be any other pros or cons to using one?

The con: At the risk of boring some folks, I guess it goes back to the basic reason of running a rising rate in the first place. If you are running say 40 psi fuel pressure, the injector flows fuel as sized...... Now you add say 10 psi of boost inside the throttle body pushing back against the fuel coming through the injector, the net result is only 30 psi (40-10) of fuel equivalent is getting through. To get more fuel flow into the TB now, the injector has to be open much longer each cycle. It could be easy to run out of time if the injector is stock.

One pro to NOT running rising rate would be in the fuel pump supply curve. I've done some simple, cheesy bench tests of the stock fuel pump and a battery. When I set the regulator to 45psi the stock cat pump(M7 or M8) would flow approximately 30 gal per hr. When I set the regulator at 55+psi the same pump would only flow about 20-25 gal per hour and it took about 25-40% more amperage to do it. 30 gph of fuel is good for approx 300hp, but 22gph is only good for a little over 200(approx.)

So if you don't do rising rate you have more fuel available, but the injector may not be able to flow enough at the effectively lower pressure it sees.

If you have rising rate.... the injector can flow more fuel, but the well might run dry either because of fuel flow drop or/and voltage drop due to high current needs.

Now enter aftermarket fuel pumps and 4 injector systems....virtually no worries about fuel starvation......and the addiction grows and grows :face-icon-small-win
 
S
Sep 20, 2008
25
3
3
It sounds like you are talking about a 1:1 regulator, a rising rate regulator will increase fuel pressure MORE than the boost pressure.
 
Last edited:
I

inspector01

Well-known member
Mar 21, 2013
379
297
63
MN
The con: At the risk of boring some folks, I guess it goes back to the basic reason of running a rising rate in the first place. If you are running say 40 psi fuel pressure, the injector flows fuel as sized...... Now you add say 10 psi of boost inside the throttle body pushing back against the fuel coming through the injector, the net result is only 30 psi (40-10) of fuel equivalent is getting through. To get more fuel flow into the TB now, the injector has to be open much longer each cycle. It could be easy to run out of time if the injector is stock.

One pro to NOT running rising rate would be in the fuel pump supply curve. I've done some simple, cheesy bench tests of the stock fuel pump and a battery. When I set the regulator to 45psi the stock cat pump(M7 or M8) would flow approximately 30 gal per hr. When I set the regulator at 55+psi the same pump would only flow about 20-25 gal per hour and it took about 25-40% more amperage to do it. 30 gph of fuel is good for approx 300hp, but 22gph is only good for a little over 200(approx.)

So if you don't do rising rate you have more fuel available, but the injector may not be able to flow enough at the effectively lower pressure it sees.

If you have rising rate.... the injector can flow more fuel, but the well might run dry either because of fuel flow drop or/and voltage drop due to high current needs.

Now enter aftermarket fuel pumps and 4 injector systems....virtually no worries about fuel starvation......and the addiction grows and grows :face-icon-small-win

That would be a 1:1 fuel pressure regulator, which is standard on most return EFI systems to keep constant base fuel pressure at all times, whether under vacuum, atmospheric pressure, or boost. 5 psi boost=5 psi increase in fuel pressure to compensate.

A rising rate FPR, will have a ratio of say 10:1. Out of boost it will act like a normal FPR to maintain base pressure. In boost, it will increase fuel pressure 10 psi, for every 1 psi of boost, which is a very crude way of increasing fuel flow for boost. So 5 psi boost= 50 psi increase in fuel pressure. So running 43.5 psi (3 bar) base pressure, and 5 psi boost on a 10:1 FPR, will result in 93.5 psi when under boost, for your fuel system designed to run on 43.5.

Increasing fuel pressure only increases flow by the square root of the difference. So although you over doubled the fuel pressure (93.5/43.5=2.15), you are only flowing sqrt(2.15)=1.466x as much as you were at 43.5 psi.

This also puts your fuel system under tremendous strain as it wasn't designed for this, and if you get too high of fuel pressure, it can hold the injectors shut.
 

Wheel House Motorsports

Well-known member
Lifetime Membership
Nov 27, 2007
29,933
5,968
113
34
SW MT
The con: At the risk of boring some folks, I guess it goes back to the basic reason of running a rising rate in the first place. If you are running say 40 psi fuel pressure, the injector flows fuel as sized...... Now you add say 10 psi of boost inside the throttle body pushing back against the fuel coming through the injector, the net result is only 30 psi (40-10) of fuel equivalent is getting through. To get more fuel flow into the TB now, the injector has to be open much longer each cycle. It could be easy to run out of time if the injector is stock.

One pro to NOT running rising rate would be in the fuel pump supply curve. I've done some simple, cheesy bench tests of the stock fuel pump and a battery. When I set the regulator to 45psi the stock cat pump(M7 or M8) would flow approximately 30 gal per hr. When I set the regulator at 55+psi the same pump would only flow about 20-25 gal per hour and it took about 25-40% more amperage to do it. 30 gph of fuel is good for approx 300hp, but 22gph is only good for a little over 200(approx.)

So if you don't do rising rate you have more fuel available, but the injector may not be able to flow enough at the effectively lower pressure it sees.

If you have rising rate.... the injector can flow more fuel, but the well might run dry either because of fuel flow drop or/and voltage drop due to high current needs.

Now enter aftermarket fuel pumps and 4 injector systems....virtually no worries about fuel starvation......and the addiction grows and grows :face-icon-small-win
Tony, you nailed it. not sure what sort of chaos these other guys are trying to explain.
 
G
Apr 23, 2008
1,576
981
113
warning warning Will Robinson.. danger ahead..!!!!!

fuel flow does NOT increase with fuel pressure when it is already at the full potential of the PUMP or line and regulator flow capabilities.

in almost 98 % of the time you look at the numbers, a pump that flows x at 43 psi will flow LESS at higher pressures.

Of course this only applies to EFI, any blow thru carb set up will flow MORE volume with increased fuel pressures.

anyhoo, Tony is as always dead on accurate, just like nasa.:face-icon-small-win:face-icon-small-coo
 

Tonysnoo

Well-known member
Lifetime Membership
Apr 6, 2004
978
277
63
No. Nevada
It sounds like you are talking about a 1:1 regulator, a rising rate regulator will increase fuel pressure MORE than the boost pressure.

I guess it's a matter of semantics. The rate that the pressure rises is based on some numerical rate or ratio. 1:1, 2:1, 5:1, 10:1 .... What ever you design around.

I simply used a rising rate of 1:1 for the example and my testing. A rising rate of any other higher ratio would just tax the fuel pump and power circuit a rediculous amount more. Take from the examples what want.
 

RobertTrivanovic

Well-known member
Lifetime Membership
Nov 8, 2012
1,199
243
63
Abbotsford BC
Im going to need to buy a different waste gate for this turbo since the one on it is like 15psi. Does anyone make one that is adjustable? Looking for one thats something like 7-10psi. Im going to be running 8psi 99% of the time but wouldnt mind options.

What are my other choices? buy the lowest actuator i can find then put a boost tee in it? Cant seem to find anything online for a 8psi actuator.
 
Premium Features