HM TURBOS WANTS INPUT DESIGNING THE NEW 800H.O. TURBO KIT

HM TURBOS · Dec 21, 2014

Engineering a turbo kit for the new 800H.O. will be a challenge. Hm has a 2015 Axys with the new engine, in the new platform, that assembly and testing will start in January 2015. The build needs input from snowmobilers who own and or want to purchase a turbo kit. That is why we would like to hear what you are looking for in a turbo kit and what you expect in a kit from Hm Turbos. Please offer your input so Hm Turbos can build the best kit for the future Polaris 800H.O.
Some points of interest to comment:

Price point?
Base kit and Deluxe kit?
Upgrading base kit?
Turbo Brand or Type?
Oil style turbo or Oil less?
Intercooled or Non-intercooled?
Piggy back or Stand alone fuel management?
Brands of fuel management?
Electronic boost control?
Fuel type? pump or av gas combo?
Power level? 5,6,7,8,9,10 more psi?
Spool up time?
Noise level?
Installation time?
Engine Durability?
Dealer or Direct?
Other comments?

Thanks for your input, all posts will be valued in the new build.

gsxr1k2 · Dec 21, 2014

Hmm

HM TURBOS said:
Engineering a turbo kit for the new 800H.O. will be a challenge. Hm has a 2015 Axys with the new engine, in the new platform, that assembly and testing will start in January 2015. The build needs input from snowmobilers who own and or want to purchase a turbo kit. That is why we would like to hear what you are looking for in a turbo kit and what you expect in a kit from Hm Turbos. Please offer your input so Hm Turbos can build the best kit for the future Polaris 800H.O.
Some points of interest to comment:

Price point? $6k range
Base kit and Deluxe kit? build your own kit options
Upgrading base kit?
Turbo Brand or Type? offer both perhaps??
Oil style turbo or Oil less? oil less
Intercooled or Non-inter cooled intercooled only
Piggy back or Stand alone fuel management? i think the future of turbo charging sleds will be with a two injected setup that the consumer will be able to flash their ecm. I know some are already doing this but I think it will be the direction everyone will be going. I also think the vipec is extremely overkill and overpriced.

Brands of fuel management? meh
Electronic boost control? yes a must

Fuel type? pump or av gas combo? pump gas is for chumps
Power level? 5,6,7,8,9,10 more psi? 5 or 10
Spool up time?uh....better?
Noise level? hmmm
Installation time?i don't think the kits are to bad to install currently.
Engine Durability? from polaris??? Lol
Dealer or Direct? direct
Other comments?

Thanks for your input, all posts will be valued in the new build.

Thanks for asking!

Sheetmetalfab · Dec 21, 2014

gsxr1k2 said:
Thanks for asking!

^^^^^^
What he said.

HM TURBOS · Dec 21, 2014

Thanks for your input!

2XM3 · Dec 21, 2014

id say less than 5000.00 totally crazy spending 7500 bucks on a turbo on a sled that costs 12 grand and you keep for 2 years maybe.

factory ecu reflash with bigger injectors/fuel system forget the standalone over priced stuff and piggyback ? no thanks.

10-14 psi

non intercooled, race gas only, I could care less about guys who want 200+ hp and run pump gas. my last turbo ran 14 psi on c 14+ non intercooled zero issues.

I like them quiet

they install pretty easy now, no issues there

biggest issue for me is that it is totally pull and go im sick of tuning ect been there done that for years never any fun.

use the KISS theory as simple as possible

just one guys ideas ! thanks for asking

TheJett29 · Dec 21, 2014

Loved my HM kit last year. Vipec was great, loved throttle response, true pull and go. Would like to see a snow to air intercooler like aero run on skidoos. Would like to see a toggle for 7 psi and switch to 10 psi. Would spend a majority getting the bottom to rip because most all turbos run good on the top end.

Thanks for asking. Looking forward to your kit next year.

gsxr1k2 · Dec 21, 2014

I agree with busting the 6k mark but under five?? The amount of R&D plus cost of turbos and doing business is astronomical.

My family has been puting turbos on sleds since 1992. The amount of growth we have seen in the turbo market is awesome but NOT cheap!!

RedRider · Dec 21, 2014

Keep the w2a, and the vipec, run a ball Brg turbo.. The oiless one are a little slow to spool when the centre section is cold but should't be a problem when it gets some heat into it. Run a larger compressor then normal ie 76 78 with a .64 turbine housing. Put the waste gate off the stinger

Your old kit rocks at 13 pounds. Keep up the good work.

Scott · Dec 22, 2014

I think this thread is an excellent idea. Consumer driven options and packages.
"Where is the market taking this?"
I like it.

Keep the ViPec. FOR SURE!!!!

As quiet as possible.

No dealers, just direct sales, install, delivery and service.
All deliveries should come with a session on the snow from the company.

Fuel quality question...
(I'm using some general numbers here for the sake of conversation, so they may not be quite perfect, but you get my idea...)
When you have a system with a low boost and high boost "switch" to flip, fuel quality is a limiting factor on the difference between low and high.
If you safely are running 5 or 6lbs on 91 pump gas, how likely are you to flip the switch to 10 pounds and not have SERIOUS issues with pump gas? Hardly possible, right?
So...a guy gets smart and runs some race gas, like 50/50 between 91 and 112. Puts him at 101 octane.

He's got octane overkill at 5 pounds but is possibly safe at 10lbs, at elevation. Not gonna be able to hit 12lbs at lower elevations with that?

So what are you limited to? 5lbs difference between low and high when splitting the difference on fuel quality?

...

Bill, I know that some of the other turbo companies charge less, but that is often a stripped package...and then you buy add-ons like ecu choices, gauges, intercooler etc.
I know a guys with a BD kits that are over $8k.

2XM3 said:
id say less than 5000.00 totally crazy spending 7500 bucks on a turbo on a sled that costs 12 grand and you keep for 2 years maybe.

factory ecu reflash with bigger injectors/fuel system forget the standalone over priced stuff and piggyback ? no thanks.

10-14 psi

non intercooled, race gas only, I could care less about guys who want 200+ hp and run pump gas. my last turbo ran 14 psi on c 14+ non intercooled zero issues.

I like them quiet

they install pretty easy now, no issues there

biggest issue for me is that it is totally pull and go im sick of tuning ect been there done that for years never any fun.

use the KISS theory as simple as possible

just one guys ideas ! thanks for asking

damx · Dec 22, 2014

*Price point? 5000 or less for base kit.
Base kit and Deluxe kit? Yes.
Upgrading base kit? Yes.
Turbo Brand or Type? Lightest and best spooling time.
Oil style turbo or Oil less? Oil less ( less weight.)
Intercooled or Non-intercooled? Intercooled.
Piggy back or Stand alone fuel management? Not sure
Brands of fuel management? Most consistent. Easy to use.
Electronic boost control? Yes.
Fuel type? pump or av gas combo? Pump 91 to full race.
Power level? 5,6,7,8,9,10 more psi? 4-8 base kit. 8-12 race kit.
Spool up time? Fast. No lag at all.
Noise level? Quiet
Installation time? What ever it takes.
Engine Durability? Stock.
Dealer or Direct? Direct.
Other comments? There lots of hight elevation kits. We ride 0-5000. Steep mountains. IV only seen one kit on any brand of sled woke good day in and out. And it's on 4 lbs. And 91 fuel. Most people just buy the kit and have no clue how to tune. Don't even know how to check plug gaps. So a very good support team. All kits around here run so ****ty they bog pop and fart, run good on the top most of the time. If that could change and price was good I know 5 kits would be coming here for me and my riding crew.

Iceman56 · Dec 22, 2014

First off I'll say thanks for asking, shows a lot about you and your business

For you its probably gonna be best to start with a base kit and have upgrade options IMO, since not everyone wants to spend the coin on a deluxe kit.

Turbo: Ball bearing Gerrett/GTX/Tial.... All the high end kit builders keep coming back to a Gerrett (Boost-it, boondocker, Evo, Impulse, Push etc.) must be for a reason. Unless you do a custom mod turbo like Comp or Precision IDK maybe they're better.

Either Oiless or use stock oil and oil pump like BD's new kit

Standalone Water to air intercooler integrated in airbox, with big heat exchanger in tunnel (did not like you old kits intercooler by itself with the all the extra charge tubing)

Fuel Management: I say if your can build a deluxe kit and keep price around where you were on old kit do the Vipec for sure. Really what are your other options? Bullydog? I don't like how end user can not fine tune sled with the Bullydog.

EBC: Yes

Fuel: With an efficient turbo and W/A intercooler and the Vipec I want the most power you can get out of the sled on pump gas or maybe a couple gallons of race mixed in. Just for the shear fact of running a lot of race or straight Av kills the responsiveness of the sled and with a Turboed 2 stoke at 10k we need all the help we can get.

Power: most power capable on Pump or a couple gallons of race

Spool up: Faster spool over top end power

Noise: big straight pipe in a tunnel dump= throaty sound without the obnoxious high pitch, lightest weight, least restrictive, least expensive

Install ease: Don't care usually the better kits take longer (more complex)

Direct or dealer: Dealers with capability to install and fine tune Vipec in on the mountain.

Comments: I am a huge fan of extra injectors I think there is just to many bonuses to pass up with extra injectors, crisper cleaner bottom end, better fuel mileage, cool charge temps and reeds, etc

Well there is my christmas list:face-icon-small-hap Do all of that and tell me where to send the check:face-icon-small-win

joshkoltes · Dec 23, 2014

Burt has so many options to fit all your needs
https://m.facebook.com/KPAturboscom
http://www.kpaturbos.com/technology
In house balanceing
VSR turbo balancing machine: http://youtu.be/Ecb9WZnhtos
My balance printout

joshkoltes · Dec 23, 2014

Price point? Pay to play
Base kit and Deluxe kit? Yes
Upgrading base kit? Yes
Turbo Brand or Type? Kpa
Oil style turbo or Oil less? Both
Intercooled or Non-intercooled? Both
Piggy back or Stand alone fuel management? Both
Brands of fuel management? Depends on $$$
Electronic boost control?
Fuel type? pump or av gas combo? Always good gas
Power level? 5,6,7,8,9,10 more psi? Adjustable
Spool up time? Who wants lag?
Noise level? Mid
Installation time? Take your time can it be done in four hours? Maby, but why? Make a day or two out of it
Engine Durability? Doesn't exist
Dealer or Direct? Dealer, a good spread of dealers to help customers across the snowpack
Other comments?

FUchiZad · Dec 23, 2014

performance quota

take some video of this kit biatch slappin around a boondocker intercooled turbo pro 800, should be phenomenal advertising!

:amen:

Spaarky · Dec 23, 2014

FUchiZad.......... brings up a good point. Any day that I can make one of my 20 BD worshiping buddies(I stress WORSHIPPING) say "Why doesn't my sled run like that?". Its a good day. :face-icon-small-win

goridedoo · Dec 23, 2014

I feel like everyone is really overthinking this. Make it simple, make it work, and make it consistent, if you do that I don't think anyone will complain, and if they do, fawk em. I don't think there's any reason to make 20 different options, its just not worth the added time of testing all the options and dealing with the different issues that will arise from each different kit. Make one kit, run it at one boost level, somewhere in the 7-10lb range, have the clutching, fueling, and everything for that one kit figured out for each elevation, and run them all the same exact way. Make it so that the average sledder, can buy this kit, drive a few hours, have a dealer install it, and ride the thing for a season without doing anything besides mixing fuel and changing clutching for different elevations. Any azzhat can do that. Get one dealer in each state out west that you can have do your installs, people will drive 3-6+ hours for an install of a good kit. Make whatever YOU think YOU can make work the best, most consistent, and have it cater to the average guy, the kits will sell themselves.

Scott · Dec 23, 2014

Ok....

Quiet, consistent, dependable.
Low boost option. High boost option.

??

goridedoo said:
I feel like everyone is really overthinking this. Make it simple, make it work, and make it consistent, if you do that I don't think anyone will complain, and if they do, fawk em. I don't think there's any reason to make 20 different options, its just not worth the added time of testing all the options and dealing with the different issues that will arise from each different kit. Make one kit, run it at one boost level, somewhere in the 7-10lb range, have the clutching, fueling, and everything for that one kit figured out for each elevation, and run them all the same exact way. Make it so that the average sledder, can buy this kit, drive a few hours, have a dealer install it, and ride the thing for a season without doing anything besides mixing fuel and changing clutching for different elevations. Any azzhat can do that. Get one dealer in each state out west that you can have do your installs, people will drive 3-6+ hours for an install of a good kit. Make whatever YOU think YOU can make work the best, most consistent, and have it cater to the average guy, the kits will sell themselves.

Jaynelson · Dec 23, 2014

2XM3 said:
id say less than 5000.00 totally crazy spending 7500 bucks on a turbo on a sled that costs 12 grand and you keep for 2 years maybe.

factory ecu reflash with bigger injectors/fuel system forget the standalone over priced stuff and piggyback ? no thanks.

10-14 psi

non intercooled, race gas only, I could care less about guys who want 200+ hp and run pump gas.

Agreed on price. Base kit should be well under $5K to get new buyers in to simple turbo systems. After they've had one, they can see if they need more bells and whistles. Agreed on factory ECU...the standalones are very $$$$ for the average guy, and way over their head for any changes that might be needed. Things like that are always available to the guys that want them.

I say straight av (or something similar in octane) as the standard for fuel. It's easily accessible, reasonably priced and makes sense. Spending $7K to turbo your sled, and then running 5psi (or what-have-you) on 91 pump fuel sounds pretty dumb when you say it out loud. Many people need more than 91 after simply changing a head/pistons, so to go through with a turbo kit and expect to run pump at sea level is....retarded. If the kit is advertised to run "pump gas," but has the ability to run more boost, all it will do is cause problems and bad reviews, IMO. There are lots of animals who ride sleds and will crank the knob to 11 running the same fuel as their truck. Might as well stay out of that as much as possible.

goridedoo said:
I feel like everyone is really overthinking this. Make it simple, make it work, and make it consistent, if you do that I don't think anyone will complain, and if they do, fawk em. I don't think there's any reason to make 20 different options, its just not worth the added time of testing all the options and dealing with the different issues that will arise from each different kit. Make one kit, run it at one boost level, somewhere in the 7-10lb range, have the clutching, fueling, and everything for that one kit figured out for each elevation, and run them all the same exact way. Make it so that the average sledder, can buy this kit, drive a few hours, have a dealer install it, and ride the thing for a season without doing anything besides mixing fuel and changing clutching for different elevations. Any azzhat can do that.

I think this^ would be the way to make the most solid kit, for the most reasonable price. Then the guys who want to spend extra $$ for more goodies, or a bigger turbo, etc, can do so....as they always do anyways.

2XM3 · Dec 23, 2014

Agreed ^^^

w2bridin · Dec 24, 2014

I would think the secret to a kit is keep them all exactly the same!! All these options just make a "install then pull the rope and go" kit harder to come by. I know some people especially on this site want to be a couple feet higher on the hill than the next guy but I think a kit that was 100% dialed in no adjusting needed would sell a ton of kits. I think a couple of my buddies would buy a kit if it would run like stock except for way more power its that initial tuning process that always seems to be there and scares them away. It depends on what you are shooting for the most kits sold or the highest on the hill hard to do both IMHO

HM TURBOS WANTS INPUT DESIGNING THE NEW 800H.O. TURBO KIT

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