Clutch - Clutching - Brace - im using one with 872

Dynamo^Joe · Sep 30, 2014

I have a little gallery of "Smashed Clutch Parts" that customers send me over the years. These selected in the photo album are some of my top pics as I have about 100+ pictures.

The facts presented below are not the only one's i've seen with pictures - and its a good enough reason to cause me to get one of these brace-thingy's because I want to prevent this from happening when I try to bust the throttle off the handlebar using my new...

The first one you see on the shop floor (Shaft, bearings..etc, ) is our good forum friend Fred. He was one of the first guys I know to get a big bore back in the day and on that 08 sled the bearing saddle was not so strong. Clutches crashed together and if I remember right even carved into the engine.

Second picture is one of my test guys Mike with a FR 137 bone stock other than clutch kit w/lower gearing.

Battery died in the camera so could only get 4 pictures of that - but I put an illustration from the microfiche to show how the tower "levered". The stud on the flat of the tunnel pulled right out of the tunnel, so it looked like a "casting sprue" Mike's secondary clutch crashed right into the cylinder and started carving a notch in it...haha. I helped him change = ugh! Such a good coincidence that the combination of events never got the primary clutch in trouble. The way the tower leaned also pried on the chaincase a bit, twisting it.

I've been looking at the racewerx brace as on first blush it seems to want to prevent such an event as #2 there.

Ace Freely · Sep 30, 2014

I LOVE carnage pics!

Ace

sledhead_24_7 · Sep 30, 2014

Look like good reasons for a clutch tower brace.

Deep Powder Guy · Sep 30, 2014

Just a bandaid.

DPG

hymark860 · Sep 30, 2014

What's the longterm cure DPG?

Deep Powder Guy · Sep 30, 2014

hymark860 said:
What's the longterm cure DPG?

Read my post on DJ's other thread...the drive and the driven are only as good as other parts connected to the clutches.....stock cranks are out of balance, the stock jack shaft all the way to your chain case is cheap pot metals ....These snowmobiles are built to the minimum required standards....Your snowmobile is like any other vehicle a link of mechanical parts. With that said the parts before the drive which is the crank and the parts after the driven which is the jack shaft to the chain case need just as much attention as any. Just because your bracing one particular component does not mean the that other components won't be negatively effected....if your really after optimum performance begin at the crankshaft, drive, driven, jack shaft , chaincase and drivers. Putting on a bandaid brace is just that a bandaid not a cure.

I where a brace on my knee because me right knee is weak. :face-icon-small-hap

DPG

Deep Powder Guy · Sep 30, 2014

Long term cure the OEMs starting offering high quality sleds components ..Are you willing to pay $20K for an OEM sled ?

DPG

simnil · Oct 1, 2014

Deep Powder Guy said:
Long term cure the OEMs starting offering high quality sleds components ..Are you willing to pay $20K for an OEM sled ?

DPG

Over here in Europe we already do, still gets the same sh_t.
A bone stock -15 Freeride 154" is around 23k USD OTD here in Sweden.......

I see BRP now offering their own clutch brace as them admitting having done something bad. To hear them say it out loud wont happen.

hymark860 · Oct 1, 2014

Thanks DPG . You offered nothing. Today's machines are what people tried building 10-20 years ago. If you didnt think so you'd still be riding old iron. There are people who solve problems and people who create problems. Which are you?

I can almost guarantee you dont tear a new sled apart and "fix" per your post in the other thread.

Deep Powder Guy · Oct 1, 2014

Hymark you don't have a clue what I'm doing to my brand new sled ....

Clutch & Crank balanced. $250
Gun Drill Chrome Moly Jackshaft w/bearings $450 ( Wahl bros sells Ti shafts for $650 )
HYVO Gears & Chain. $200 (Team)
----------------------------------------------
Parts Upgrade. $850

In comparison guys are salivating over how cool a belt drive is and there spending $800 to $1200 for a kit which IMO they aren't get much in return for the investment other than some cool looking Bling under the hood.....If your going to do it right do it once rather than a bandaid here and a bandaid there. You save money in the long run doing it correctly the 1st time.

DPG

backcountryislife · Oct 1, 2014

What causes the issues a tower brace helps with has nothing at all to do with balancing. ZERO.

Balanced clutches are a great thing, and pretty much always worth the $$ imo, but that's like saying "I fixed my s module issue by putting new skis on".

hymark860 · Oct 1, 2014

Honestly, only benefit in your upgrade I see is balancing clutch and crank. You need a Jack shaft and gears to convert. No real world benefit there. Never seen a jackshaft break and not enough rotating mass too make a difference. Not sure id call it a upgrade.

Where's it gunna get you on the hill. Hmmmm probably no higher.

backcountryislife · Oct 1, 2014

hymark860 said:
Honestly, only benefit in your upgrade I see is balancing clutch and crank. You need a Jack shaft and gears to convert. No real world benefit there. Never seen a jackshaft break and not enough rotating mass too make a difference. Not sure id call it a upgrade.

Where's it gunna get you on the hill. Hmmmm probably no higher.

In defense though, a tower brace won't get you higher either... it really IS a bandaid, but it's one that serves a purpose. Land a stepup at full throttle, but with minimal ground speed... and you see quickly what the tower brace is for.

IMO the XM is a good platform that needs a few basic bandaids to make it a decent ways more consistent & trustworthy... I'll keep buying the bandaids.

Btw, I've got the racewerx brace on my sled... it's a simple install, and if the forces that cause the issue present themselves, it's there to help. (imo, they also help with belt life by maintaining parallelism, but balanced clutches are another thing that will help that as well.)

hymark860 · Oct 1, 2014

While your inside motor you better upgrade your pistons. Everybody know polaris pistons dont last and there warranty sux.

hymark860 · Oct 1, 2014

That is true. I run with guys that have BBS and 3" tracks on there xms. No brace or clutch problems. Sleds are designed for x amount of HP. You exceed those perimeters, stuff is gunna break. Stock sleds dont need a brace but people read on the internet it savesbelts and adds 1 HP and think they need it. I'm not against it but bottom line guys are trying to have a edge on there buddy and ride every weekend.

Deep Powder Guy · Oct 1, 2014

hymark860 said:
Honestly, only benefit in your upgrade I see is balancing clutch and crank. You need a Jack shaft and gears to convert. No real world benefit there. Never seen a jackshaft break and not enough rotating mass too make a difference. Not sure id call it a upgrade.

Where's it gunna get you on the hill. Hmmmm probably no higher.

I'm not to concerned about the jack shaft breaking...It's the amount of flexing you get with a stock jack shaft under load....Stoping the jack shaft from flexing will provide better driven clutch performance, better chain case performance which adds up to better track speed to get you higher on the hill.

DPG

Deep Powder Guy · Oct 1, 2014

hymark860 said:
While your inside motor you better upgrade your pistons. Everybody know polaris pistons dont last and there warranty sux.

New piston are part of the BB....By the way I'm building a ProClimb better motor than a Poo.

DPG

hymark860 · Oct 1, 2014

My point BCL is DPG calls it a band-aid. Without knowing all the circumstances of each sled we end up debating on its ROI. The brace isn't a fix all add one but can serve a purpose as you mentioned

Deep Powder Guy · Oct 1, 2014

hymark860 said:
My point BCL is DPG calls it a band-aid. Without knowing all the circumstances of each sled we end up debating on its ROI. The brace isn't a fix all add one but can serve a purpose as you mentioned[/

Each sled manufacture is virtually identical mechanically ...They all have inferior cranks, clutches, jackshafts, chains & gears I don't care what brand you own.

DPG

winter brew · Oct 1, 2014

I'm sure I will be in the minority on this, but I'll say it anyway

op2:
Different ways of looking at the usefullness of a tower brace (IMO). I have heard of damage being done with a brace as well. The force has to go somewhere. Allowing things to flex (motor mounts, material choice for jackshaft, tower etc...) plays a huge role in making things last while isolating vibration and distributing the various forces being exerted. I see a lot of XP's and XM's, all with big tracks, and have only ever seen a couple cracked bulkheads under the tower. Pretty good track record I think. Is it perfect?..nothing is.
Also be aware that some braces will cause tower and bulkhead damage in a front end collision that otherwise would only effect the forward module.
It can also effect RPM under a load vs without a brace, requiring some changes in clutch setup....have seen that MANY times. Take a bolt out of the brace and RPM returns and is more stable under load. Not always the case, just something to be aware of if you have a brace and encounter this issue.
Personally, I won't run one and the dozens of XP/XM's we have ridden with since they appeared in '08 have never had one and not a single failure (knock on wood!) with BB's and even turbo's. JMHO- :smow:

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