Silber Turbos 2015 External Wastegate Kits

Boston Racing · Oct 8, 2014

Below are pictures of our external wastegate components optional for the 2015 kits. Now you get all the advantages of an external wastegate coupled with Silbers amazing quality, no cutting / no hassle installation and best of all the tremendous value. PM me if your interested in getting one before the snowcheck deals are gone.

jskattum606 · Oct 8, 2014

That looks friggin sweet!

MacDawg productions · Oct 8, 2014

wow!!
looks good guys!!
Let the chit fly!!

wellfed777 · Oct 8, 2014

what are the main advantages of external wastegates ?
thanks

Monty · Oct 8, 2014

curious what it would take and cost to change my current Silber KPA setup to this?

mountainhorse · Oct 10, 2014

Looks nice... I like the flex coupling and the un-cluttered looks.

Iceman56 · Oct 10, 2014

Sweet piece, nice fab work... Is that kpa's external housing with the port for wastegate plumbed in it something they make now? Or is this a custom job?

So what does the full tilt Silber kit cost this year (oiless turbo, external gate, etc.)??

seanc · Oct 11, 2014

i have been in the performance car world for a long time.... the ONLY reason to upgrade to an external wastegate is if you are experiencing boost creep, which is when you hit max boost and it creeps up and up because the wastegate can not move enough of the exhaust gases away from the turbine wheel. so if you are not its not a worthwhile upgrade. it seems most folks in the snowmobile world are let astray in the turbo department. like all the folks that think thier "water-to-air" setups are beneficial when in fact they are hurting performance, but the big companies sell them like hot cakes to the uneducated.

sledhead9825 · Oct 11, 2014

seanc said:
i have been in the performance car world for a long time.... the ONLY reason to upgrade to an external wastegate is if you are experiencing boost creep, which is when you hit max boost and it creeps up and up because the wastegate can not move enough of the exhaust gases away from the turbine wheel. so if you are not its not a worthwhile upgrade. it seems most folks in the snowmobile world are let astray in the turbo department. like all the folks that think thier "water-to-air" setups are beneficial when in fact they are hurting performance, but the big companies sell them like hot cakes to the uneducated.

Agreed on the external wastegate. Why do you think Water 2 air are hurting performance ?

goridedoo · Oct 11, 2014

The boost adjustment on an external wastegate is easier/simpler setup also isnt it?

gmustangt · Oct 11, 2014

seanc said:
i have been in the performance car world for a long time.... the ONLY reason to upgrade to an external wastegate is if you are experiencing boost creep, which is when you hit max boost and it creeps up and up because the wastegate can not move enough of the exhaust gases away from the turbine wheel. so if you are not its not a worthwhile upgrade. it seems most folks in the snowmobile world are let astray in the turbo department. like all the folks that think thier "water-to-air" setups are beneficial when in fact they are hurting performance, but the big companies sell them like hot cakes to the uneducated.

This is a classic 4 stroke car guy comment , I've lost track of how many conversations I've had with car guys regarding turbo stuff that dosent pertain to 2 stroke snowmobiles. Here's why.
1. Your 4 stroke is running valves , our 2 stroke is not.
2. Your 4 stroke has way more exhaust energy than our 800cc two stroke snowmobiles.
3. On an internal wastegate you have ineffecienys right before the wheel and right after, hurting flow , Depending on setup this is avoided with the external.
4. Take a look down the volute of a tial and a standard internal garret , easy to see the volute of the tial accelerates the energy into the turbine.
5. Talk to the guys who have done the tests the tial flows more than a standard internal.

Car guys have high ground speed , so an air to air makes sense. That's why they don't run water to air. Sled guys have snow everywhere so you can exchange your fluid with below zero snow , it's a no brainer.

Good for silber for offering this , step in the right direction , I look forward to seeing it at the snow show.

seanc · Oct 11, 2014

No. That's all in the boost controller used

seanc · Oct 11, 2014

The water to air on sleds is usually routed to the coolant. This is a great way to heat up the charge air. In race cars what we do is pump the water to the back of the car. Cheap way is to have the water go into a cooler with tightly wound copper coils then fill the cooler with ice. Snowmobile turbo manufactures do a great job of using marketing and the customers ignorance to sell parts you do not need.

gmustangt · Oct 11, 2014

Delete

gmustangt · Oct 11, 2014

seanc said:
The water to air on sleds is usually routed to the coolant. This is a great way to heat up the charge air. In race cars what we do is pump the water to the back of the car. Cheap way is to have the water go into a cooler with tightly wound copper coils then fill the cooler with ice. Snowmobile turbo manufactures do a great job of using marketing and the customers ignorance to sell parts you do not need.

Usually? The only company doing that was aerocharger. Hm, boost it, ovs , boondocker and a few others are using independant coolers and pump so it's circulating ice water all the time, assuming deep powder riding.

Cool fab work from silber and I'm curious on pricing for the setup?

BigFish BC · Oct 11, 2014

seanc said:
The water to air on sleds is usually routed to the coolant. This is a great way to heat up the charge air. In race cars what we do is pump the water to the back of the car. Cheap way is to have the water go into a cooler with tightly wound copper coils then fill the cooler with ice. Snowmobile turbo manufactures do a great job of using marketing and the customers ignorance to sell parts you do not need.

so how many hours of testing do you have on a water to air sled & a air to air back to back?i know boost-it has allot of hours testing both & they only use water to air now.

water to air & external gates improve these systems,the average rider mite not realize the diff.but guys that have rode with & without back to back do.

that external is a nice looking peice of work:face-icon-small-coo

Ephratafarmer · Oct 11, 2014

That looks so sweet, can't wait to get mine and install it, then get it on the snow in Nov. in Revy. Justin will have one to show at the Puyallup Snow Show next wk end. Great job, and thks for all your innovative work on taking two stroke turbos to new levels. You keep hitting home runs one after another. Thks Justin

jskattum606 · Oct 12, 2014

seanc said:
i have been in the performance car world for a long time.... the ONLY reason to upgrade to an external wastegate is if you are experiencing boost creep, which is when you hit max boost and it creeps up and up because the wastegate can not move enough of the exhaust gases away from the turbine wheel. so if you are not its not a worthwhile upgrade. it seems most folks in the snowmobile world are let astray in the turbo department. like all the folks that think thier "water-to-air" setups are beneficial when in fact they are hurting performance, but the big companies sell them like hot cakes to the uneducated.

Two strokes are also very sensitive to exhaust leaks. An external gate has valve and seat similar to an exhaust valve. Internal gates are just a flapper that is very limited in its sealing capabilities. I know I wouldn't want an engine that had flapper valves for the combustion chamber:face-icon-small-ton

seanc · Oct 12, 2014

gmustangt said:
This is a classic 4 stroke car guy comment , I've lost track of how many conversations I've had with car guys regarding turbo stuff that dosent pertain to 2 stroke snowmobiles. Here's why.
1. Your 4 stroke is running valves , our 2 stroke is not.
OK?
2. Your 4 stroke has way more exhaust energy than our 800cc two stroke snowmobiles.
OK?
3. On an internal wastegate you have ineffecienys right before the wheel and right after, hurting flow , Depending on setup this is avoided with the external.
Where are these inefficiencys? If you look at their exteraal kit the exhaust must make a hard 90* corner to get to the wastegate this will create creep with enough pressure.
4. Take a look down the volute of a tial and a standard internal garret , easy to see the volute of the tial accelerates the energy into the turbine.
No wastegate accelerates the exhaust gas into the turbine they are designed to do the opposite...
5. Talk to the guys who have done the tests the tial flows more than a standard internal.
I know they flow mor . The only reason to flow more is if your internal set up can not move enough exhaust away from the turbine to keep the boost under contro . The internal should be plenty for most folks. You said yourself the sleds have less exhaust volume and pressure. And that said the lower the boost the harder to it is to control. The higher the boost the less exhaust you need to move away from the turbine.

Car guys have high ground speed , so an air to air makes sense. That's why they don't run water to air. Sled guys have snow everywhere so you can exchange your fluid with below zero snow , it's a no brainer.

Good for silber for offering this , step in the right direction , I look forward to seeing it at the snow show.

Length

Polarisrocks · Oct 13, 2014

I have ran both set up, external and internal. The internal is more of an explosive boost and the external has a softer slower more stock like feeling with large top end. Most people who ride in the deep snow like the slower boost hit over the booooom. In the trees the boom is harder to handle as well. Now a external can be plumbed so it hits hard like a internal. I have spent time on the the phone with tial tech understanding why my sled is not explosive.. I also learned a few things from a CAR guys too. Plumbing the gate as I did (top and bottom) with a ball and seat type controller makes the sled feel smooth. When you put a restrictor pill or bushing in line before the controller (vent to atmosphere gate valve), it holds the wastegate shut longer creating the explosion. Now the smaller the spring in the gate the sooner the boost will overcome the spring and feel smooth. Now a electronic boost controller shuts off the line to the gate forcing the gate to rely on the psi of the spring. Now some guys want to be able to turn down their sled to 5 lbs to run pump gas in the event they run out of good gas and need to get out of the mountains... borrow gas from a stocker.. The beauty in this is its possible as their are 25 different psi springs for the external gate.. There is a lot more to the external plumbing than a internal.. pm me if you need help..

Jim

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