URGENT !! INJECTOR OIL UPDATE

kmo · Dec 10, 2014

Pro-8250 said:
For years we have used Amsoil Interceptor. Lately we have been using Polaris VES Gold Plus. We are now thinking about changing to Klotz. Anyone have an opinion on this?

Klotz smells AWESOME from the exhaust....but Amsoil is better oil. I like Redline also but Amsoil Interceptor burns cleaner in my dirt bike (and probably in my sleds also) than Redline. I am about to switch back to Amsoil for everything. Except I might keep some Klotz around for my weed eater....smells SO good!

TRS · Dec 10, 2014

I was a Klotz dealer. I will give you a little insight on why I quit using Klotz in 2009. Klotz may work for many out there, just not for me. The two 550 fans I built for the grand kids runs mixed gas with no oiler. They ran a 40:1 ratio of Amsoil dominator (I was an Amsoil dealer also). We ran Amsoil for half the year. I didn't get a timely shipment of Amsoil so we switched to Klotz. We lost 200 RPM by the second tank of fuel. I couldn't figure this out. We ran another weekend, same thing 200 RPM low. Both 550 sleds mind you. During the week I tore one of them down. The film in the motor was like glue, for a lack of another word. I cleaned it up and put it back together. Went back to Dominator, the following weekend and that sled was back to running RPM. The other sled took 2 tanks to get cleaned out and it was back. So the question was, was it the oil or because we ran it in a fan cooled sled? We then tested the Klotz in my son-in-laws 2007 600HO. It started to get sluggish and was getting worse. The guillotine bellows EV port would get plugged constantly. We tore the engine down and found the same residue as the fanners. Cleaned the residue and put it back together and we were off to the races again. The film reminded me of film the product Energy Release left behind. If anyone remembers that product.

wellfed777 · Dec 10, 2014

hey Tony , MH or Dan

how do any of you feel about Blue Marble ? it says pour point -40*
i ride at above 10* almost always
reason i ask is i'm sitting on 3 gallons and would like to use in my Pro
but not if i'm risking damage
thanks

let it snow

slash · Dec 10, 2014

amsoil all the way almost 25 years of using it only 1 failed eng but the oil pump broke off that one .

TRS · Dec 11, 2014

wellfed777 said:
hey Tony , MH or Dan

how do any of you feel about Blue Marble ? it says pour point -40*
i ride at above 10* almost always
reason i ask is i'm sitting on 3 gallons and would like to use in my Pro
but not if i'm risking damage
thanks

let it snow

I haven't had experience with Blue Marble, or know anyone locally that uses it. So I cannot give you an answer.

Reg2view · Dec 11, 2014

boondocker97 said:
Regarding Amsoil Dominator vs Interceptor, the Dominator oil is higher viscosity and made to "stick" to parts. Better film strength (where it can get in). I read somewhere in their literature that it doesn't run as clean and is intended more for race motors since they are torn down, cleaned, and inspected more often. Sounds like the type of thing Dan is trying to avoid with the tight tolerances. Interceptor is probably the better choice.

Dominator also does not have the detergent additives and rust inhibitors of Interceptor. I started running it in RAVE doos in the 90's, when it was called Race, never had a valve issue in the old raves. Perfect film strength for a 2S high rpm application with internal temp swings. Does not seem to like the newer VES/APV type of valve systems as much. On doo tear downs, the piston/cylinders always looked great, but always have to check rod/mains carefully for wear and corrosion. FWIW.

hankohlson · Dec 11, 2014

Blue Marble

Ive been a big fan of blue marble in my older Polaris engines and have run it for thousands of trouble free hard miles. I just picked up a leftover 14 and just filled it with the BM. I am also interested to hear your opinion Dan. Would your previous opinions on the properties of synthetic Vs mineral still apply with a propper cold pour point ? or is this cfi2 a different animal.

Thanks!

Quicksand · Dec 12, 2014

just a thought. In cars and trucks the main bearings and connecting rod bearings have no rollers, instead they use a pressurized oiling system to supply oil to very tight tolerances between bearings and rotating components. the rotating components then ride a film of oil between it and the bearing surface. over the years the machining processes for building engine components has gotten WAY more precise, the gap between the bearing and rotating component is much tighter than it used to be.
Also the pressurized oil is being used to actuate cam phasers for variable cam timing, to deactivate lifters for "displacement on demand" and other systems where the oil passages are very small. The demands of the oil is very different than it used to be
THIS is why we are seeing water-like 0-20 and 5-20 oils commonly used in vehicles now.

I' m not saying mineral or synthetic is the way to go, only that the oiling systems are completely different and can't really be compared.

rmk727 · Dec 12, 2014

In the Edge days we sold Blue Marble to our customers cuz it worked so much better than VES, then VES gold, then VES plus ect but since the cfi came out the Ves and now the latest version has worked great plus you can buy it most anywhere or borrow from most friends, kind of like hunting with an 30/06.

Jaynelson · Dec 12, 2014

All of you guys asking "what do you recommend" "what about this oil, what about that oil" should read this from Dan's first post:

So I am to the point where the dread oil question that may forever live will be answered like this in a CFI 2 or 4 motor...........Run the factory injector oil or something with the same pour point or lower.

And then read it again. And possibly a 3rd time. If the oil you are considering is in question of having different properties than the factory recommended oil, and you don't know where to find and/or interpret that information....just save the brain damage (and the risk) and run the factory stuff. Why make a simple thing complicated?

Sheetmetalfab · Dec 12, 2014

Jaynelson said:
All of you guys asking "what do you recommend" "what about this oil, what about that oil" should read this from Dan's first post:

And then read it again. And possibly a 3rd time. If the oil you are considering is in question of having different properties than the factory recommended oil, and you don't know where to find and/or interpret that information....just save the brain damage (and the risk) and run the factory stuff. Why make a simple thing complicated?

Or maybe read it 6-7 times. Lol

Powderboy · Dec 13, 2014

Its just part of male DNA. Debating about oil and lying about your diesel fuel mileage.

LoudHandle · Dec 13, 2014

Powderboy said:
Its just part of male DNA. Debating about oil and lying about your diesel fuel mileage.

Funny you should mention that; two co-workers were having that Ford, Chevy, Dodge fuel economy verses ergonomics (sausage measuring contest) just minutes ago around the coffee pot.

Powderboy · Dec 13, 2014

LoudHandle said:
Funny you should mention that; two co-workers were having that Ford, Chevy, Dodge fuel economy verses ergonomics (sausage measuring contest) just minutes ago around the coffee pot.

LOL!!!

Jaynelson · Dec 13, 2014

LoudHandle said:
Funny you should mention that; two co-workers were having that Ford, Chevy, Dodge fuel economy verses ergonomics (sausage measuring contest) just minutes ago around the coffee pot.

Yup. Buy the biggest, most powerful vehicle you can find, put even bigger tires on, drive it like a wild man, and then endlessly debate fuel economy :lol::face-icon-small-con

MTNRCR · Dec 13, 2014

I have worked with Indy Dan on more than one engine rebuild over the years (he does the best work I have seen!)......I am one of the few that NEVER bought into petroleum based oils just for the pure aspect that it does not flow at low temperatures like synthetic oil will. last I remember snowmobiles typically operate at low temps. Now if you could always store you sled over night at 50F plus I would run petroleum based oil since the under hood heat would keep the oil at a safe flowable temp all day. jmho

POLZIN · Dec 13, 2014

I use only royal purple snow 2c. I use and recommend their products. I have seen the results first hand many times over more than 20 years of use in industrial equipment, sleds you name it . There are many good oils out there but I doubt any better than Royal purple.

Hats off to Dan for this thread!

AKrider · Dec 14, 2014

Here are the specs for a highly refined mineral oil with a pour point of -22F.

http://www.alexisoil.com/pdf/HAV2Cycle.pdf

dktraw · Dec 14, 2014

phillips 66 injex oil

i have been using this non synthetic oil for a lot of yrs. have had very good luck with it in many different sleds, both carbed and injected. pour point is
-54F

Merlin · Dec 14, 2014

VES Gold Technical Specifications?

Has anyone been able to track down any published technical specs. for VES Gold?

It's difficult to make an informed decision on whether a non-OEM oil will cut the mustard if you don't know where the "bar" has been set..........

FWIW, although it wasn't the OP's intention, I can see many leaving this thread with the opinion that the use of mineral based oils will result in the death of any direct or semi-direct injected 2 stroke engine without considering the important variables of ambient operating temp. & the specs. of the oil itself.

URGENT !! INJECTOR OIL UPDATE

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