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2015-16 M800 Why Should I buy

Angermangement890

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After looking around on the reviews of the 16 Proclimb, I am interested in another mountain sled as a demo unit for my shock and suspension business and am thinking about Cat or dare I say... a Doo. Why would/should I pick the Cat over the Doo?

Couple of my concerns on the cat are listed below.

Weight, what is the best way to lighten the sled?
I am interested to hear what guys are doing for weight loss and what the expense is to drop 10, 20, 30 or 40-50 lbs off the Proclimb.

Fuel economy, what kind of fuel are they using per day?
I usually leave at 8 am and ride until 4 pm with about a 1/2 hour to an hour break for lunch. My current sleds (PRO's) use roughly 7-9 gallons in a typical day. There are not fuel stations where we ride. Since the CFI sleds I have not needed to pack extra fuel. With the TB injection on the Proclimb how is the fuel consumption?

Clutching, if I go with a 15 holdover how bad is the clutching?
Can the 16 clutches be swapped on?

Chassis durability, does the proclimb have the same steering post/bulkhead issues of the older M series?

Is the rear tunnel section a problem area on these?

Parts availablity, are Western dealers well stocked with common wear items?

Sorry for all of the questions, just trying to make the best decision on a second sled.

I also ordered a 16 RMK Axys 800 which weighs 408 lbs and makes comparable HP to the Cat. What kind of surgery will it take to get the cat close in weight?
 

kiliki

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you can take 25 lbs off and kick it up to 170 hp with a full pipe set and pc5 this is truly plug and play. in deep snow the cat will drink fuel about the same as the others.
the chassis is more durable IMO but it does come with the weight but parts are cheaper then the other two and you can get most anything in short turnaround.
As for the clutches early indications (16) you can put the primary on easy but the secondary will have to be traded with the jack shaft over the 15
 

Angermangement890

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you can take 25 lbs off and kick it up to 170 hp with a full pipe set and pc5 this is truly plug and play. in deep snow the cat will drink fuel about the same as the others.
the chassis is more durable IMO but it does come with the weight but parts are cheaper then the other two and you can get most anything in short turnaround.
As for the clutches early indications (16) you can put the primary on easy but the secondary will have to be traded with the jack shaft over the 15

Thanks for the help! What is the cost to drop 25lbs on the sled? Is this all accomplished with a pipe set? I see SLP claims 21 ish lbs with just a pipe set??? What does AC build there pipe with? 1/4" steel lined with lead?

Anyone have experience with the Stage 2 or stage 3 kit from SLP?
 

boondocker97

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--Cat has the best factory suspension out there...Probably a bigger market with Polaris or Doo

--Problem is Polaris owners riding worst suspension think their sled is perfect already because Polaris told them so...Doo riders,,who knows what their thinking...

Agreed. If you are going to use it for a promotional/demo sled to sell your product the ski doo is better. They have a horribly under dampened/under sprung suspension package stock. I went on a Doo demo ride with the Rasmussen crew and they had some sleds with upgraded springs/valving. Riding them back to back with a stocker there was no comparison. Would be the first mod I did if I ever had to ride one.

The Cat pro-climb chassis is rock solid front to back. The handling is much more predictable to me on the cat. The Doo doesn't seem to stop changing directions right when I stop giving it input. Always seems to go just a little further. It doesn't feel like an over-riding the sled thing for me either. More like you have to stop bringing it around before you want it to settle and stay put, and have faith that it will end up where you want it. Stock for stock, the Doo seems to initiate it's roll a bit easier. That might change with the new 36" stance on the '16 Cat though.

I ride Cats and I have a couple buddies that ride Polaris, and one on a Doo. When the snow is good, we are all out of gas about the same time. Easy cruising down a trail might have less fuel consumption on the E-tech?

The exhaust cans on the Cats are huge. 20lb loss with an exhaust is legit. A hood/intake will drop another 10lbs. Oil injection delete is another 8lbs I think. Then you go into different suspension components, belt drive, seat, fuel tank, etc.

On a '15 you have the 38-40" front end instead of 34.5-38.5", telescoping steering post instead of T-top, and the 15 will need a different set of skis. The team clutches should be better, but having said that I am still running the stock ones on my '14 with almost 1000 miles on the current belt. The '16 has better rear skid geometry than the '15.
 

kiliki

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Anyone have experience with the Stage 2 or stage 3 kit from SLP?

we have 5 stage 2 kits and 1 stage 3 in our group. what do you want to know?
the stage 2 is the best bang for the buck but without the clutching as there are better set ups for the same money.
 
R
Totally agree with boondocker97. I too have buddies with Polaris and Etec and are not better than my HCR. Actually the one RMK is worse than the rest. So there you go..
Even at 7600ft,we were all similiar for 4 days of riding at McBride BC.
They are all dealer/manufacturer claims...
 

Angermangement890

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we have 5 stage 2 kits and 1 stage 3 in our group. what do you want to know?
the stage 2 is the best bang for the buck but without the clutching as there are better set ups for the same money.

Whats the runnability like? Pull and go? Is the fuel map spot on or on the rich side like the Polaris stuff?

Is the stage 3 worth the extra $$$ compared to the stage 2?

If not using SLP clutching, what should a guy look at?


Thanks for all the replies guys, so if I understand properly no one is upgrading the suspensions on their cats? I have no issue getting large performance gains over the stock and aftermarket air shocks with a properly set up Exit shock package on Polaris and the ski-doos I've worked on, figured it would be the same for the Cat sleds.

My biggest issue with the doo is durability and steering post angle. I bash through stuff, and thought the ski-doo might be a tad on the weak side for my style. My durability concerns coupled with the odd position of the bars had me leaning towards a Pro-climb. But if no one replaces shocks or upgrades anything it might not be the best choice for a demo sled.
 

Chewy22

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Whats the runnability like? Pull and go? Is the fuel map spot on or on the rich side like the Polaris stuff?

Is the stage 3 worth the extra $$$ compared to the stage 2?

If not using SLP clutching, what should a guy look at?


Thanks for all the replies guys, so if I understand properly no one is upgrading the suspensions on their cats? I have no issue getting large performance gains over the stock and aftermarket air shocks with a properly set up Exit shock package on Polaris and the ski-doos I've worked on, figured it would be the same for the Cat sleds.

My biggest issue with the doo is durability and steering post angle. I bash through stuff, and thought the ski-doo might be a tad on the weak side for my style. My durability concerns coupled with the odd position of the bars had me leaning towards a Pro-climb. But if no one replaces shocks or upgrades anything it might not be the best choice for a demo sled.

Lots of good info on here with various clutching setups that work well on 15s and older. 16 is an entirely new animal. Will take sometime but sure MDS, Cutlers, and all the aftermarket guys will have something nailed down by the time snow flies.

Never discount an upgrade in shocks. Although the factory floats work fine, they are still made on the cheap. Lots of guys upgrade to Exits, Raptors. I've had good luck with the evol kashima coated floats. They work very well.

On the 16s it sounds like the front track shocks could use a valve adjustment. Suspect you'll see kits for that or Tom can take care of you.
 

boondocker97

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The Cat setup is probably the best IMO as far as stock suspension on a mountain sled. Especially with the Evol setup on the '16 limited. That being said, there are still gains to be had with the stock Cat suspension. I re-valved both rear track shocks and replaced the fronts with a set of Evol Xs on my '14, and it was a good improvement over stock. As you know any time something is built to work for the masses on a budget, there will be compromises.

The gap between a stock setup and a great setup on a Doo is just larger than with the Cat.
 

kiliki

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the stage 2 is pull and go the map is real close but it is made for the masses and could be tuned per sled. the clutching is figure out for the 15 and back and as said above it will only be mid Nov and the tools will be out to get it done for the 16
the stage 3 is a nice set up and performs well but for the same money or a bit more you can get a 920, 925, 940, 950 ect and gain 20+ hp.
I'm with the said above about the shocks stock for stock the cat setup is the best. room to grow yes. I have put raptors, evols ect on a few of my old Ms and on the PC it hit my brake-over for return. I could live with the factory stuff and put the 1200 bucks in other areas like stage 2 or belt drive and feel good about it.
I agree about the doo and the steering i can not get use to it. I like a lot about it but the rider position and post angle kills it for me.
 

madmax

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I would agree with the above post. The stage 3 runs very strong, but for not much more you can get a big bore and have a lot more power.
 

WyoBoy1000

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O boy. ...

First thing to address from a product producer, you have to go 16 because everything in the suspension changed. Narrowed front end means different valving and rates, rear skid is different and the front skid shock had been relocated and is quite a bit longer. The valving on the shocks is a Joke! Way to much rebound. So there is a need, plus one this gets dialed in everyone will want this setup over the 15. Plus the 16 comes with 3", and if the axys you have came with one you will want this one. After riding it I would never go to a shorter lug, ever.

Next, weight. Diamond S quite can drops 17lbs $530ish that's the easy one.

Now to make the sled handle like it weighs less, get a lightweight hood, drop about 12lbs. But here is the problem, it changes the sled so much that it will change your valve spec, might not be the best business decision but for sure the best for performance. Cost $370-1299 depending on choice of setup

Another thing, gearing, AC completely went backward trying to fix the 12-15 clutch issue by regearing, so now they need to be regeard. A 3" with 7 tooth drivers wind s up with about a 2.86 ratio, 2012 was 2.33 and 14-16 with 8 tooth drivers is 2.63. With proper clutching the best performance come in around 2.5 at the lowest and depending on elevation all the way to 2.33 for low elevation. Now you can just change gears or go with a belt drive and Lose weight as well, tki belt drive with oil tank is $899 and works great. I'm running a 2.42 ratio with 3" on my 14 and it will out pull the 16. Drops 6.75 lbs

That's a total of 36ish lbs and you could do a pipe and ditch 6 more with added power, although even riding with turbos I don't need it, is just raising the bar ( when ppl ride other sleds then get on my cats they ask why does this one have so much more power? It doesn't, it's the 3" and setup)

Clutching, my 14 took lots of time and about a grand to make the clutching work like it should, the 16 took 66g weights and a better spring and works so better, (I think there is still more to get.

Solid chassis, steering etc....

Fuel economy is outstanding, you will burn more because of fun factor.

Major downfall to the axys IMO

The running boards and side panels are to wide, the stick out 2" father on each side than the pro. Ski doo is even worse, meaning when the hill gets step the hit and throw you around and the axys keeps going. A lot of ppl think it's the spindles digging in, it's not is the width.
I put polaris boards on my 14 and 16, on the 16 I angled them up 2" on outer edge where the 14 is up about a 3/4".
Both are pro dominating sled, blows ppl s minds after riding a pro.

I also have 15 pro and xm I spent some time on the xm first this year thought it was fun then rode my cat and was disappointed in the xm. Kept trying it thought of all the ways to improve it and came to the conclusion that it could be done but with twice the work and money, it's the loaner, I rode the pro over it every time and the cats over it 4 to 1. (My cats with narrow boards and increased steering, or I would be on a pro)

I'm looking forward to getting the axys to compare, I'll have 2 16 cats, 153, 162 and 2 axys 155, 163 to compare, the one cat had already been modded and I'm going to be upgrading suspension, even though it's still prob better than the others, the axys.... prob the first thing will be suspension.

The doo, well there is for sure a market for suspension there.

I will back everything I said on the hill 100%
 

Angermangement890

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Thanks for the Replies guys! All really good info/tips.

So the 16 gets the nod over the 15 for all the upgrades it gets.

I get the feeling that the stock shocks are decent and can be reworked rather than replaced in most cases. It also appears that the Proclimb is on an evolution path that can only get better IF Cat listens.


I'm on the fence at this point. Sounds like while I dislike a lot of stuff about the Doo, they have a greater need for better shocks/suspension and have a possibly larger market to reach.
 

WyoBoy1000

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It all depends on packages,
But cat sells almost all sleds with a minimum of the sno pro package meaning it has decent shocks but crap for valving.
Doo on the other hand sells sno pros with chit for shocks like the pro, so unless your buying the top package in all then doo and poo have the greater need
 

DDECKER

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I:face-icon-small-hapts all on how you ride................the poo and shocks maybe cheaper then the cat....dont get me wrong i love my cat and I WONT RIDE ANYTHING ELSE...but im very hard on my chut......
 
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