Please Help Me Find 09 M8 Electrical Gremlins

[Frostbite]

I am dealing with an electrical anomaly of some sort with my sled. Our snow has been less than stellar so I have only ridden once but, I experienced some electrical weirdness on the way home the other night but, luckily after 10-15 minutes it decided to start and I was able to drive it home.

The sled had run fine all day and the engine pulled very hard. I was grinning in my helmet with how well it was running. I'm not sure if my issues started when I turned on the hand warmers or if it was a coincidence, but I noticed my speedometer needle swinging funny and stopping at 20 mph, 40 mph, then 60 mph, etc. I also noticed my EGT gauges fading in and out and the lights on the dash flickering. The engine seemed to stumble but, smoothed out under power.

Then after a break, it started and just slowly faded away and died. After 10-15 minutes of time had elapsed and after my wiggling of some wires down under the heat shield by the Y pipe hoping to resolve the problem, it started. I'm not sure if I moved the right wire or if something cooled enough for the sled to start working again? It fired right up like nothing had happened and I drove it 15 miles back to the truck. I left it in the covered trailer for a week and it started on the second pull and I drove it right into the shop and put it on the lift.

I inspected and added new heat tape to the injector wires under the Y pipe heat shield and put everything back together. The sled started up and ran for 20-30 seconds and then died. Now, it won't start again. It fires about every third pull but, won't start.

I read all the threads about shorted wires under the gas tank, tail light wires, TSS switches, ECUs, CCUs, checking ground wires, unplug this harness and dielectric grease connectors, etc. My issues seem to sound very much like a stator????

OK, where to start?

I think I will start with checking the electrical wires for my injectors again first. That's the only thing I messed with since driving it into the shop. I had a problem with them grounding out a few years ago and I noticed one wire felt funny, like the copper wire inside the rubber coating was broken.

The other things on my short list are the Throttle Sensor (which I unhooked a couple seasons ago because I was having issues with it). I added a tether at that time. It could be the tether or tether wiring as well....

I can't seem to find how to test the stator the ECU or the CCU in the 09 service manual. It shows a CCU test for the 600 and 1100cc sleds only. Do I even have a CCU on an 09 M8? Oh, I found the stator checks in the electrical resistance and peak voltage tests.

Please share your ideas on things I should check please.

 

[Phizzer]

Check the main harness plug in behind the steering post cover. Those always get saturated with water and cause all sorts of problems. Blow all out the plugs ins with compressed air and di electric. And make sure to check the ground on the right side of the sled attached to the steering hoop support bolts. That one always seems to go. If you start there, thats easy and will only take a few minutes, try it out, and if it still does it...

Id be doing a stator test. Pretty sure you can look up the specs in the manual. A simple ohms test may tell you what your problem is. The fading in and out, not starting, I have seen that little ground wire cause a lot of simlar problems as well.

 

[Frostbite]

Thanks Phizzer!

I will add those tests to my list.

It's always best to do the easy stuff first....

 

[Phizzer]

Looks like this if for a 2009 800...

http://www.arcticchat.com/forum/att...wiring-diagram-please-09_electrical_specs.jpg

 

[m8magicandmystery]

. It fires about every third pull but, won't start.

.

ok...lets simplify this abit..now the question is

is it failing after the third pull firing because of lack of fuel or spark..

introduce fuel into the equation by putting some into your cylinders..(mixed)..and see if it continues to run a bit longer then just the fire and stumble you are now experiencing...then at least we either eliminate one possibility or concentrate on one..

 

[m8magicandmystery]

Thanks Phizzer!

I will add those tests to my list.

It's always best to do the easy stuff first....

sorry for my post, I thought you already did the easy checks as you indicated in your first post of checking connections and dielectric grease etc..

 

[m8magicandmystery]

. I left it in the covered trailer for a week and it started on the second pull and I drove it right into the shop and put it on the lift.

. The sled started up and ran for 20-30 seconds and then died. Now, it won't start again. It fires about every third pull but, won't start.


.

you may have two issues..electrical gremlin that made your gauges go strange which could be a ground issue..check the hidden one above your brake rotor on the steering hoop bolt on the nut side.."double nutted" if its the same as the 07.

and there is a possibility although very remote that your reeds all of a sudden are causing a problem..so its worth checking.



the engine needs fuel/compression/spark/air...at the right time of course.

 

[HIDY]

Make shure is cool because it starts cool. Before you start it put a heat gun down by you stator/recoil get it warm and see if it starts.

 

[Frostbite]

Thanks guys, i just came back in from the shop. I didn't see the ground wire you guys mention but, I will look harder.

I pulled the pipe and the cover where the goggle bag goes. I also peeled the high temp tape and the electrical tape off the fuel injector wires near the connectors. I can see where the wire on the right (mag side) injector wire chaffed through before. I may slip the pipe on in the morning and try the sled.....

 

[Phizzer]

If the injector wire didn't fix it, you definitely want to check that ground. It should be on the right side of the sled, on the "Nut side" of the top bolt that holds the steering hoop in place. There is supposed to be a ground wire with a ring terminal, placed over the end of that bolt, with a Jam nut to keep it in place. I've seen guys chase down problems when 90% of the time, this was the culprit. Let us know what you find.

 

[diggerdown]

Did you happen to try unplugging everything on the bars? You mentioned the handwarms, did you unplug them? They do short out.

 

[Tee-Kay]

Had one M8 in our group start hard and then typically quit right after it would finally start (I think the tach was acting strange too)...we messed around with the wires going into the ECU and it would get better or worse depending on how you moved the wires. Replaced the main wiring harness and the sled has been good for the last two seasons.

Currently working on a M7 that is doing the same thing. Have had the main wiring harness on order but it has been on backorder for at least a month now. When we get it and if it helps I will report back.

 

[Frostbite]

Thanks for the help guys!

The sled is up and running again. The problem is, I'm not sure exactly why.

I rerouted the injector wires and messed with the SOB of a buried ground on the steering loop. That ground wire is now all twisted up from trying to tighten and loosen the nut. I unplugged the main wiring harness and added dielectric grease. I also unhooked the tether.

I tried the sled and it fired right up. So, I hooked the tether back in while the sled was running and it continued to run fine.

I re-taped all the wires and added wire ties and just drove it into my covered trailer.

So, what fixed it? I still think it's the fuel injector wires but, I can't prove it.

Thanks again for the support.

 

[diggerdown]

Don't you just hate that when you get it running but are not sure if you really fixed anything. Glad it's working...hope it keeps working! I see you got new snow coming to try it out in.

 

[Desperado]

Didn't you have the same problem up in McCall a few years ago...seems I remember something about that. If I remember correctly it was an injector wire issue then too.

 

[Paul27]

Another electrical issue:

Check your spark plug wires. They tend to chaff one against the other, and wear through the insulation.

Electrical tape or small zip ties will hold the stock AC plastic clips in place, so the wires are supported, yet are free to flex with engine vibration.

 

[m8magicandmystery]

Another electrical issue:

Check your spark plug wires. They tend to chaff one against the other, and wear through the insulation.

Electrical tape or small zip ties will hold the stock AC plastic clips in place, so the wires are supported, yet are free to flex with engine vibration.

good point....I put split loom over my high tension leads

 

[Frostbite]

Here I am again.....MY son and I rode my M8 for the first time in nearly two years today. I had my new 2015 Proclimb and he had my M8. The M8 worked fine once again but after a break it wouldn't start. Then after while it would fire. After an even longer period it would start but, with a very weak idle and just slowly die. If you touch the throttle it would die instantly. That was enough, once it started (and by the way, it ran great) we headed it back to the truck. Of course it ran perfectly all the way to the truck and into the trailer. What the heck is going on here? It sounds like the same issue I had originally.

I think maybe a stator check is in order?

Maybe the ground is corroded again?

What do you guys think?

 

[kiliki]

put a pressure gauge on the output side of the fuel tank fuel line. i have seen fuel pumps do this run fine for a bit and drop pressure. you should be 42-48 psi. you can buy an inline T and oil field gauge 0-60 psi from your local hydrolic shop for about 20-30 bucks. most of the time the fuel line is long enough to just cut about 1.5" off and put the gauge up buy the tank output. and when your done you can just take it out of the loop and move the line on to the tank barb. if the pump is bad don't buy it from the dealer get on Ebay and look up arctic cat walbros pump. btw you did unhook the TSS right? NOT THE TPS

 

[Frostbite]

Thanks Kiliki, it's been a while but, I remember unhooking a very small white connector inside the throttle block assembly as few years ago. I think you are right, it was the throttle safety switch. It sure as heck wasn't the throttle position sensor.

So, fuel pressure huh? The way the idle just slowly fades away getting quieter and quieter until the engine dies, that sure makes sense. Touching the throttle immediately kills it. I guess I will have to see what I have in my shop, I may have what I need or I will have to order some parts.

Any other fine ideas or thoughts?